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New board: Philanthropy?

Formerly "Lemon Fool - Improve the Recipe" repurposed as Room 102 (see above).
AsleepInYorkshire
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Re: New board: Philanthropy?

#401915

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » April 5th, 2021, 7:26 pm

csearle wrote:Maybe we should have a poll?

Arguments have been made for why the subject of Philanthropy is broad enough to warrant a board. Arguments have been made for why such a board might be superfluous or unwise.

Although The Lemon Fool is not a democracy. Maybe a poll of the users would be indicative? After all stooz and Clariman clearly shepherd the site but they are not my idea of dictators.

Chris

I'm still not sure if I'd vote for Phil or Thropy

AiY

csearle
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Re: New board: Philanthropy?

#401916

Postby csearle » April 5th, 2021, 7:27 pm

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:I'm still not sure if I'd vote for Phil or Thropy
Don't be awkward, just vote for one of them. C.

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Re: New board: Philanthropy?

#401926

Postby melonfool » April 5th, 2021, 9:12 pm

Gengulphus wrote:
melonfool wrote:But my view is that this isn't a topic in itself, it's just part of normal philosophical debate and there is a philosophy board.

I'd regard both philanthropy and tax policy as only rather distantly related to philosophical debate!

Gengulphus


I was responding to the question in the OP: "We really need another thread - if not another board entirely to develop the haves vs have-nots discussions: Philanthropy?"

it was you who said it was really about tax policy. I took the question in the OP in good faith and it is my view that philanthropy is a philosophical issue, albeit in a broad sense.

Mel

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Re: New board: Philanthropy?

#401931

Postby GrahamPlatt » April 5th, 2021, 10:11 pm

Following the foregoing arguments (by which I mean points of view),”Philanthropy” would fit well between “The Economy” and “The Meaning of Life” in the super-sector of “”Polite Debate and Discussion”. Whether it would be a success remains to be seen. And if not, it could always be retired (cf Polite Discussions).

Gengulphus
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Re: New board: Philanthropy?

#401933

Postby Gengulphus » April 5th, 2021, 10:21 pm

csearle wrote:Maybe we should have a poll?

Arguments have been made for why the subject of Philanthropy is broad enough to warrant a board. Arguments have been made for why such a board might be superfluous or unwise.

Although The Lemon Fool is not a democracy, maybe a poll of the users would be indicative? After all stooz and Clariman clearly shepherd the site but they are not my idea of dictators.

A reasonable idea - provided we're told fairly exactly what the proposal is that we're voting about (for instance, my views about 'political' and 'practical' boards aren't the same - so if that aspect of the proposal isn't made clear, I'll have a problem deciding how to vote), and provided it's made crystal clear that the poll is being done to judge opinion, not to decide the matter.

I also think it would be a good idea for the poll to have more than just a single yes/no question. There seem to me to be at least two different axes of opinion about such a board - whether the voter thinks it would be a good idea for TLF to have such a board (with "bad idea", "good idea" and "no opinion / don't know / don't care / etc"), and how much the voter would use the board themselves if it was created ("not at all", "a little" and "a lot" being the obvious options).

If for instance the responses were clustered around "good idea, though I wouldn't use the board myself", it might be best not to create the board, on the basis of it not producing enough benefit for the moderator effort used (especially if the exact proposal allowed 'political' stuff). With a simple yes/no question, that view would probably result in yes votes, obscuring the likely low usage level of the board.

Gengulphus

AsleepInYorkshire
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Re: New board: Philanthropy?

#401935

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » April 5th, 2021, 10:25 pm

Dod101 wrote:Then there is the beneficiaries of one's philanthropy. It need not be all about helping the poor (however we define them; which is, as already been suggested' a subject for debate itself). It could be about helping out your local theatre, especially after this Covid year, cats and dogs homes, medical charities or whatever. Even starting your own charity. You do not need to an Abigail Disney to do that.

Also of course some of the admin to go with that and how successful or otherwisee the Charity Commissioners (OSCR in Scotland) are at policing them. Philanthropy and its attendant topics is a big subject. I said not a good idea basically because I suspect it would get bogged down in all the attendant political issues that are not far removed from most of its topics.

This to me is a highly personal matter and better left that way. I do not want to see a new wing at my local Uni named 'The Dod School of Perversity' or something.

Dod

Before Covid my Mum volunteered to work at Dove House Charity Shop and also the Minster on a Saturday. It worked both ways. It got her out of the house as she lives without a partner (Dad passed away in 1990) and she feels good about herself when she makes the effort for her local community. Covid has closed closed all that down and she's sat at home since last March with breast cancer (diagnosed one week after lock down started) and now lung cancer (diagnosed just before Xmas).

I agree with you that charity is highly personal. But it's also a way to bring people together and as in my my Mum's situation it helps to prevent that ugly disease loneliness. Mum can't give money as she's not got that kind of money. But she can give her time and in return gains company for a few hours every week.

I can't describe philanthropy or charity. Wish I could.

It's just that for some their circumstances are different and they want to join in, in a way that they can. If for no other reason than it makes them feel as they are adding value to their community. And I have to say they are adding more than I am currently. We all do what we can in any way that we can. Kindness knows no form?

Take care

AiY

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Re: New board: Philanthropy?

#401941

Postby Gengulphus » April 5th, 2021, 11:08 pm

melonfool wrote:
Gengulphus wrote:
melonfool wrote:But my view is that this isn't a topic in itself, it's just part of normal philosophical debate and there is a philosophy board.

I'd regard both philanthropy and tax policy as only rather distantly related to philosophical debate!

I was responding to the question in the OP: "We really need another thread - if not another board entirely to develop the haves vs have-nots discussions: Philanthropy?"

it was you who said it was really about tax policy. I took the question in the OP in good faith and it is my view that philanthropy is a philosophical issue, albeit in a broad sense.l

Firstly, I did not say that the question in the OP was really about tax policy: I said that the Guardian article the OP linked to is really about tax policy.

Secondly, on what the question in the OP is about: the only answer I can give is that it's confused. For instance, a discussion about Bill Gates's setting up of the Gates Foundation is about an act of philanthropy and would be at home on a board called Philanthropy, but it's not a haves vs have-nots discussion. There is a related haves vs have-nots discussion to be had about whether society should permit individuals to build up the sort of personal fortunes needed to fund that sort of act of philanthropy, but that question about how large society should allow individuals' fortunes to become has little if anything to do with philanthropy: the same question exists regardless of whether the individual chooses to spend the fortune on setting up a charitable foundation; on ultra-luxurious mansions, yachts, private jets, etc, to live a life of luxury; on a magnificent tomb in the hope of being remembered forever; on ultra-expensive adventures like space exploration; or doubtless a number of other possibilities.

IMHO whether it's a good idea to be a philanthropist is a philosophical issue and/or a religious issue. But philanthropy itself is not: it's a type of act that various people do, rather than an issue.

Gengulphus

Dod101
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Re: New board: Philanthropy?

#401943

Postby Dod101 » April 5th, 2021, 11:12 pm

Thanks AiY and sorry for your Mum's problems. I agree with the idea of helping out although I do nothing in that area these days. Covid has put paid to a lot of that and of course I am now an ancient or nearly one.

No point in repeating my views on a new Board though.

Dod

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Re: New board: Philanthropy?

#401948

Postby Dod101 » April 5th, 2021, 11:52 pm

Gengulphus wrote:IMHO whether it's a good idea to be a philanthropist is a philosophical issue and/or a religious issue. But philanthropy itself is not: it's a type of act that various people do, rather than an issue.


I rather like that line of thinking; quite philosophical in itself. It would be helpful to know what the OP really had in mind. Was it philanthropy or was it whether to be or to become a philanthropist? I assumed the former and I hope my responses confirmed that.

In all though and taking all things into consideration, what did he have in mind?

Dod

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Re: New board: Philanthropy?

#401950

Postby GrahamPlatt » April 5th, 2021, 11:54 pm

Gengulphus wrote:
melonfool wrote:
Gengulphus wrote:
I'd regard both philanthropy and tax policy as only rather distantly related to philosophical debate!

I was responding to the question in the OP: "We really need another thread - if not another board entirely to develop the haves vs have-nots discussions: Philanthropy?"

it was you who said it was really about tax policy. I took the question in the OP in good faith and it is my view that philanthropy is a philosophical issue, albeit in a broad sense.l

Firstly, I did not say that the question in the OP was really about tax policy: I said that the Guardian article the OP linked to is really about tax policy.

Secondly, on what the question in the OP is about: the only answer I can give is that it's confused. For instance, a discussion about Bill Gates's setting up of the Gates Foundation is about an act of philanthropy and would be at home on a board called Philanthropy, but it's not a haves vs have-nots discussion. There is a related haves vs have-nots discussion to be had about whether society should permit individuals to build up the sort of personal fortunes needed to fund that sort of act of philanthropy, but that question about how large society should allow individuals' fortunes to become has little if anything to do with philanthropy: the same question exists regardless of whether the individual chooses to spend the fortune on setting up a charitable foundation; on ultra-luxurious mansions, yachts, private jets, etc, to live a life of luxury; on a magnificent tomb in the hope of being remembered forever; on ultra-expensive adventures like space exploration; or doubtless a number of other possibilities.

IMHO whether it's a good idea to be a philanthropist is a philosophical issue and/or a religious issue. But philanthropy itself is not: it's a type of act that various people do, rather than an issue.

Gengulphus


You’re getting perilously close to arguing about the subject, and not about whether to create a board here. And well said!

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Re: New board: Philanthropy?

#402018

Postby Lootman » April 6th, 2021, 1:53 pm

Gengulphus wrote:the Guardian article the OP linked to is really about tax policy.

Secondly, on what the question in the OP is about: the only answer I can give is that it's confused. For instance, a discussion about Bill Gates's setting up of the Gates Foundation is about an act of philanthropy and would be at home on a board called Philanthropy, but it's not a haves vs have-nots discussion. There is a related haves vs have-nots discussion to be had about whether society should permit individuals to build up the sort of personal fortunes needed to fund that sort of act of philanthropy, but that question about how large society should allow individuals' fortunes to become has little if anything to do with philanthropy: the same question exists regardless of whether the individual chooses to spend the fortune on setting up a charitable foundation; on ultra-luxurious mansions, yachts, private jets, etc, to live a life of luxury; on a magnificent tomb in the hope of being remembered forever; on ultra-expensive adventures like space exploration; or doubtless a number of other possibilities.

Yes, I think the idea of a place to discuss philanthropy, charity and generosity isn't a terrible idea. The problem is that the OP positioned it as a place to discuss "haves versus have nots", which is more a desire to discuss what many call wealth inequality, and whether that is a problem.

That is an overtly political topic, and we already have a place to discuss such things. That is easy to prove since there is currently a topic discussing exactly that, here:

viewtopic.php?f=99&t=28775

The OP did contribute to that topic and so presumably found it OK.

So to me the real question is this. If there is a philanthropy topic that would be interesting and popular to discuss, which does not fit on either the Current Events board or the Taxes board, then were should it go? And if the answer is nowhere AND there is sufficient interest in it, then we need a new board. Otherwise we do not.

If instead the desired discussions are political in nature then to me what the OP really seeks is to sub-divide the Current Events board into separate subjects, of which wealth inequality is one, and presumably there could be others such as Middle East, American politics, Global Warming and so on. Personally I do not see the point of that, but rather we should keep all the hot air and politics in one place where it can be managed more easily.

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Re: New board: Philanthropy?

#402036

Postby PinkDalek » April 6th, 2021, 2:24 pm

The OP commenced this Topic with We really need another thread ....

If by thread he means Topic (in phpBB® Forum Software parlance) then why not start one at one of the previously mentioned Forums (aka Boards), such as Current Affairs & News or The Economy, and see how it goes?


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