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Obscure Topic Titles

Formerly "Lemon Fool - Improve the Recipe" repurposed as Room 102 (see above).
Lootman
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Re: Obscure Topic Titles

#443665

Postby Lootman » September 19th, 2021, 7:33 pm

tjh290633 wrote:In my view this raises an important point. Do people use obscure titles as clickbait? After looking at the posts on Investors' Roundtable, I usually go to Unread Posts, and scan the titles. Any in Laughing Lemons, I ignore. Some have informative titles, but viewtopic.php?p=443296#p443296 is an example which tells me nothing without looking at the thread. viewtopic.php?p=434591#p434591 is another one.

Neither title gives any indication of the subject.

I think that we can do better.

Agreed. I think people are trying to be folksy and cute. But it would be better if they were informative, to respect and avoid wasting other peoples' time.

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Re: Obscure Topic Titles

#443673

Postby XFool » September 19th, 2021, 8:17 pm

XFool wrote:I'd just like to say that I think this entire thread really is extremely silly. It always has been and always will be.

I'd just like to say that a post seems to have disappeared - the one immediately preceding my post above, which was the context for my post.
(Presumably removed for discussing moderation. Maybe this post will now disappear, for discussing disappearing posts by people who were discussing moderation...)

A whole new subject area: "Obscure Posts" ;)
Last edited by XFool on September 19th, 2021, 8:29 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Obscure Topic Titles

#443675

Postby fisher » September 19th, 2021, 8:26 pm

Lootman wrote:
tjh290633 wrote:In my view this raises an important point. Do people use obscure titles as clickbait? After looking at the posts on Investors' Roundtable, I usually go to Unread Posts, and scan the titles. Any in Laughing Lemons, I ignore. Some have informative titles, but viewtopic.php?p=443296#p443296 is an example which tells me nothing without looking at the thread. viewtopic.php?p=434591#p434591 is another one.

Neither title gives any indication of the subject.

I think that we can do better.

Agreed. I think people are trying to be folksy and cute. But it would be better if they were informative, to respect and avoid wasting other peoples' time.


I usually use the Active Topics view and on a number of occasions I have opened a thread I am not interested in because I didn't realise what a thread was about due to its cryptic title. Surely it is only a matter of respect to other posters to make the titles a good clue as to what will be found therein.

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Re: Obscure Topic Titles

#443690

Postby richfool » September 19th, 2021, 9:24 pm

tjh290633 wrote:In my view this raises an important point. Do people use obscure titles as clickbait? After looking at the posts on Investors' Roundtable, I usually go to Unread Posts, and scan the titles. Any in Laughing Lemons, I ignore. Some have informative titles, but viewtopic.php?p=443296#p443296 is an example which tells me nothing without looking at the thread. viewtopic.php?p=434591#p434591 is another one.

Neither title gives any indication of the subject.

I think that we can do better.

TJH

Thank you TJH for acknowledging my point.

It's a shame that my and others' earlier posts/points were removed from the thread.

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Re: Obscure Topic Titles

#443693

Postby richfool » September 19th, 2021, 9:46 pm

As some posts were removed, which included further examples of unclear or obscure topic titles, I'll throw in one more that I just happened to notice, entitled: "Irony?"

viewtopic.php?p=441245#p441245

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Re: Obscure Topic Titles

#443695

Postby JohnB » September 19th, 2021, 9:52 pm

My entirely factual post explaining the moderators position on titles as explained to me has been removed.

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Re: Obscure Topic Titles

#443697

Postby csearle » September 19th, 2021, 10:00 pm

Oh for heaven's sakes peeps! The title of a post should be entirely down to the poster. If the poster wants it to be informative then all well and good. If the poster wants it to be cryptic for comic effect then all is ok. If the poster wants it to be so cryptic that you have to read the post to understand the title then that is surely his, her, or its choice.

If you as a reader don't understand the title and are curious then read the post.

If you as a reader don't understand the title and are annoyed that you haven't received a precis then don't read it.

Simples.

Chris

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Re: Obscure Topic Titles

#443710

Postby richfool » September 19th, 2021, 11:01 pm

csearle wrote:Oh for heaven's sakes peeps! The title of a post should be entirely down to the poster. If the poster wants it to be informative then all well and good. If the poster wants it to be cryptic for comic effect then all is ok. If the poster wants it to be so cryptic that you have to read the post to understand the title then that is surely his, her, or it's choice.

If you as a reader don't understand the title and are curious then read the post.

If you as a reader don't understand the title and are annoyed that you haven't received a precis then don't read it.

Simples.

Chris
I entirely agree, if we are talking of Joke threads. But as far as investment topics, and news topics, are concerned, it would seem entirely reasonable and appropriate that posters make clear what the topic is about. It saves wasting people's time having to open the thread to find out. I would even go as far as saying it is disrespectful if not rude to not clearly indicate the topic title.

I don't visit the forum to engage in riddle solving, but to read topics and threads that interest me. I note people on here are quick to condemn newspaper headlines for "clickbait", but yet some posters indulge in exactly that.

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Re: Obscure Topic Titles

#443714

Postby Lootman » September 19th, 2021, 11:09 pm

richfool wrote:
csearle wrote:Oh for heaven's sakes peeps! The title of a post should be entirely down to the poster. If the poster wants it to be informative then all well and good. If the poster wants it to be cryptic for comic effect then all is ok. If the poster wants it to be so cryptic that you have to read the post to understand the title then that is surely his, her, or it's choice.

If you as a reader don't understand the title and are curious then read the post.

If you as a reader don't understand the title and are annoyed that you haven't received a precis then don't read it.

Simples.

I entirely agree, if we are talking of Joke threads. But as far as investment topics, and news topics, are concerned, it would seem entirely reasonable and appropriate that posters make clear what the topic is about. It saves wasting people's time having to open the thread to find out. I would even go as far as saying it is disrespectful if not rude to not clearly indicate the topic title.

I don't visit the forum to engage in riddle solving, but to read topics and threads that interest me. I note people on here are quick to condemn newspaper headlines for "clickbait", but yet some posters indulge in exactly that.

Agreed but I have mostly noted this as a problem on the general boards rather than the investment boards. So for example the two examples TJH gave were on the Current Affairs and News board, where it is not uncommon for a top poster to add a little bias and skew to the title to nudge the debate in the direction he or she personally prefers.

Or another examples cited was in Beerpig's Snug. On both those boards one could take the view that people frequent them to fritter away time rather than seriously discuss investments. In fact most of the regulars on Current Affairs contribute little to investment topics, I have noticed.

So perhaps the real schism here is between investment and non-investment topics? And between those who want fast useful info and those for whom the days are a little too long?

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Re: Obscure Topic Titles

#443718

Postby Gengulphus » September 19th, 2021, 11:51 pm

csearle wrote:Oh for heaven's sakes peeps! The title of a post should be entirely down to the poster. If the poster wants it to be informative then all well and good. If the poster wants it to be cryptic for comic effect then all is ok. If the poster wants it to be so cryptic that you have to read the post to understand the title then that is surely his, her, or its choice.

If you as a reader don't understand the title and are curious then read the post.

If you as a reader don't understand the title and are annoyed that you haven't received a precis then don't read it.

And if you as a reader consider that the title isn't "respectful, understanding and helpful to other posters", report it for breaking that site rule (rather than posting ineffective complaints that will simply act as a distraction from discussion of the thread's actual subject, whatever it is...). Just as you should if the title breaks other site rules, such as being defamatory or hate speech.

From which people may correctly deduce that I do not agree with csearle's IMHO over-categorical "entirely down to the poster" statement - the site rules must prevail over the poster's choice if they come into conflict.

On the other hand, while obscure post titles can easily be regarded as "unhelpful" to other users, a post clearly has to exceed some sort of threshold of unhelpfulness to be regarded as in breach of that rule - otherwise (for example) a post replying about some aspect of tax rules that gave generally good information but omitted to mention an obscure special case could be deemed "unhelpful" because of that omission. But I can certainly imagine post titles that I would hope would be far too "unhelpful" to be allowed to remain - for instance, a post with the title "Biscuit recipe suitable for nut allergy sufferers" which used a non-obviously nut-containing ingredient...

Whether merely being obscure or cryptic can become bad enough to exceed that threshold, I don't know. Being cryptic for comic effect is one thing, the unhelpfulness being redeemed by the comic effect; being cryptic just to inconvenience people (making them read the post to find out that they're not interested in it when a more considerately-chosen title would have saved them the effort) does strike me as a case of being unhelpful without any real redeeming features.

Finally, one not entirely serious suggestion I might make is that there is a form of poetic justice that could be employed against uninformatively-titled posts: take the title at its word! If e.g. someone posts under the title "It just won't go away, will it?", as mentioned in the OP, reply about how Covid just won't go away, about how Brexit-induced problems in Northern Ireland just won't go away, about how the climate crisis just won't go away, about how the nasty smell in the council loos just won't go away, etc, etc, etc. I reckon posters subjected to that treatment would soon learn to make their post titles more informative about what the posts are about... ;-}

Gengulphus

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Re: Obscure Topic Titles

#443721

Postby csearle » September 20th, 2021, 12:05 am

Gengulphus wrote:From which people may correctly deduce that I do not agree with csearle's IMHO over-categorical "entirely down to the poster" statement - the site rules must prevail over the poster's choice if they come into conflict.
I agree. I failed to take into account the situation where the title already infringes the site rules. This is why we have Geng/D there to keep me honest. :)

All the best lovely Fools, C.

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Re: Obscure Topic Titles

#443723

Postby Lootman » September 20th, 2021, 12:16 am

csearle wrote:
Gengulphus wrote:From which people may correctly deduce that I do not agree with csearle's IMHO over-categorical "entirely down to the poster" statement - the site rules must prevail over the poster's choice if they come into conflict.

I agree. I failed to take into account the situation where the title already infringes the site rules. This is why we have Geng/D there to keep me honest.

But does it transgress the site rules? Take this:

Gengulphus wrote:And if you as a reader consider that the title isn't "respectful, understanding and helpful to other posters", report it for breaking that site rule (rather than posting ineffective complaints that will simply act as a distraction from discussion of the thread's actual subject, whatever it is...). Just as you should if the title breaks other site rules, such as being defamatory or hate speech.

If I understand that reference to a rule then it appears to be from this part of the site rules listed at the top of the screen:

"To make this a valued and successful discussion forum, LemonFool asks all users to be respectful, understanding and helpful to other posters."

That is not specific to topic titles which, as far as I can see, has no rule associated with it.

Rather it applies generically to all content. And it is stated as a request, as in "asks all users". That might appear to some to fall short of a prohibition, but is rather just a suggestion or polite request. It is certainly worded less strongly than many of the other rules.

I do not much like these vague overly-casual titles, but I think the rules might need to be stiffened up a bit in order to elevate such instances to the level of candidates for removing the topic (or perhaps, changing the title).

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Re: Obscure Topic Titles

#443724

Postby XFool » September 20th, 2021, 12:22 am

Lootman wrote:I do not much like these vague overly-casual titles, but I think the rules might need to be stiffened up a bit in order to elevate such instances to the level of candidates for removing the topic (or perhaps, changing the title).

Or, to put it succinctly, so some people may perhaps have a mechanism which they could use for removing an entire topic that, for one reason or another, they have taken a dislike to?

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Re: Obscure Topic Titles

#443725

Postby XFool » September 20th, 2021, 12:46 am

Gengulphus wrote:Finally, one not entirely serious suggestion I might make is that there is a form of poetic justice that could be employed against uninformatively-titled posts: take the title at its word! If e.g. someone posts under the title "It just won't go away, will it?", as mentioned in the OP, reply about how Covid just won't go away, about how Brexit-induced problems in Northern Ireland just won't go away, about how the climate crisis just won't go away, about how the nasty smell in the council loos just won't go away, etc, etc, etc. I reckon posters subjected to that treatment would soon learn to make their post titles more informative about what the posts are about... ;-}

I think you may need to be careful with suggestions such as that, Gengulphus, whether serious or not. After all, it is a game that could be pursued by more than one player.

Let's play "London lovers" (A fairly random choice):

'David Hockney - Underground' - Caving with David Hockney, sounds fun!

'Tom & Jerry’s Life In London' - Great, a thread about cartoon characters in London! Now that IS fun...

'The London Alphabet' - Obviously a thread about Cockney Rhyming slang, I think I'll list all the examples I can think of, I bet others will soon join in with their favourite examples that I may not have heard of. (Let's just ignore that boring, silly first post about some train station or other)

I don't know how moderation is carried out on TLF, but I would have thought judgements of 'Topic' are set down by the first post in the thread. The topic is, introduced, started by the OP (however it is titled). How else could it or would it be reasonably done?

So how "unhelpful", "inconsiderate" etc. would it be to totally ignore the OP of a thread and appropriate any thread as the fancy takes you. Yet people on here are lecturing others about manners etc.

Preposterous.

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Re: Obscure Topic Titles

#443727

Postby XFool » September 20th, 2021, 12:58 am

There are even some posters on this misbegotten thread who have:

Complained that it is a waste of their time clicking on links to "find out" what something is about and, to demonstrate, they have provided links to examples which you have to click on to find out what they are about! Jeez...

Somebody said they couldn't be bothered opening a thread. They helpfully provided a LF quick link to the thread that they couldn't be bothered to open, which you can only get by opening the thread and copying the post number to provide the link to the thread they "couldn't be bothered to open"! :roll:

I do so like these auto-contradicting posts.

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Re: Obscure Topic Titles

#443743

Postby csearle » September 20th, 2021, 8:28 am

XFool wrote:Or, to put it succinctly, so some people may perhaps have a mechanism which they could use for removing an entire topic that, for one reason or another, they have taken a dislike to?
This is a technique I feel is already employed here for arguments which, on balance, have not gone the way of the reporter. Every rule sanctioning thread deletion is another weapon in their [expletive deleted]; every thread deletion a small victory. C.

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Re: Obscure Topic Titles

#443749

Postby Gengulphus » September 20th, 2021, 9:07 am

XFool wrote:
Lootman wrote:I do not much like these vague overly-casual titles, but I think the rules might need to be stiffened up a bit in order to elevate such instances to the level of candidates for removing the topic (or perhaps, changing the title).

Or, to put it succinctly, so some people may perhaps have a mechanism which they could use for removing an entire topic that, for one reason or another, they have taken a dislike to?

So Lootman's "perhaps" alternative of changing the title is likely to be a better way of dealing with such cases than removing the entire thread.

Gengulphus

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Re: Obscure Topic Titles

#443751

Postby TUK020 » September 20th, 2021, 9:13 am

There's an excellent board for this sort of topic.
Might I suggest that some posters explore "Bitter Lemons".

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Re: Obscure Topic Titles

#443839

Postby tjh290633 » September 20th, 2021, 2:09 pm

XFool wrote:There are even some posters on this misbegotten thread who have:

Complained that it is a waste of their time clicking on links to "find out" what something is about and, to demonstrate, they have provided links to examples which you have to click on to find out what they are about! Jeez...

Somebody said they couldn't be bothered opening a thread. They helpfully provided a LF quick link to the thread that they couldn't be bothered to open, which you can only get by opening the thread and copying the post number to provide the link to the thread they "couldn't be bothered to open"! :roll:

I do so like these auto-contradicting posts.

How else does one draw attention to such an offending post?

TJH

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Re: Obscure Topic Titles

#443842

Postby XFool » September 20th, 2021, 2:18 pm

tjh290633 wrote:
XFool wrote:There are even some posters on this misbegotten thread who have:

Complained that it is a waste of their time clicking on links to "find out" what something is about and, to demonstrate, they have provided links to examples which you have to click on to find out what they are about! Jeez...

Somebody said they couldn't be bothered opening a thread. They helpfully provided a LF quick link to the thread that they couldn't be bothered to open, which you can only get by opening the thread and copying the post number to provide the link to the thread they "couldn't be bothered to open"! :roll:

I do so like these auto-contradicting posts.

How else does one draw attention to such an offending post?

TJH

"offending post" - that's a matter of opinion. If they were "offending" against TLF rules would they not have been reported and then removed by moderation? In which case, they couldn't be linked to...

Besides, why should I have my time wasted by people forcing me to click on links just to see what they are about?
Last edited by XFool on September 20th, 2021, 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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