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New Guidance & 'Rules' for High Yield Discussion Boards

Formerly "Lemon Fool - Improve the Recipe" repurposed as Room 102 (see above).
Clariman
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New Guidance & 'Rules' for High Yield Discussion Boards

#98968

Postby Clariman » November 26th, 2017, 2:27 pm

There has been much debate about what constitutes a High Yield Portfolio (HYP) and, therefore, what posts are appropriate on the HYP Practical board and what posts appropriate on the High Yield Share Strategies - General board. New guidance has been published on both boards which we request that you adhere to. The guidance has arisen out of much discussion and argument on the boards themselves - and subsequent discussion and agreement amongst the moderators and admins. Please do not discuss them on the two HY boards, but you can do so here ... politely. Please note, however, that the guidelines have arisen from much debate and discussion, so are unlikely to change in any significant way. We will follow this topic and listen though.

Thanks
Clariman and Stooz

jackdaww
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Re: New Guidance & 'Rules' for High Yield Discussion Boards

#99027

Postby jackdaww » November 26th, 2017, 6:40 pm

in the HYP practical section it states --

"At its simplest, it will have at least 15 holdings, none of which should be from the same sector"

at least 15 holdings implies its ok to have 30 or so , but its then difficult to make them unique by sector .

i am probably missing something .

:?

ps. i note there is no mention in the HYP practical rules of pyad doris etc.

Raptor
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Re: New Guidance & 'Rules' for High Yield Discussion Boards

#99054

Postby Raptor » November 26th, 2017, 8:47 pm

jackdaww wrote:in the HYP practical section it states --

"At its simplest, it will have at least 15 holdings, none of which should be from the same sector"

at least 15 holdings implies its ok to have 30 or so , but its then difficult to make them unique by sector .

i am probably missing something .

:?

ps. i note there is no mention in the HYP practical rules of pyad doris etc.


The idea is that if you only have 15 then the sector rule applied after that it is fair game.

Raptor.

Wizard
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Re: New Guidance & 'Rules' for High Yield Discussion Boards

#99117

Postby Wizard » November 27th, 2017, 6:46 am

Breelander wrote:
Wizard wrote: I say not HYPable based on the recently released guidance for this board.


Yes, I fear that the prescriptive use of word 'exclusively' in place of "doesn't have to adhere 100% to these hallmarks..." from an FAQ that had served well for years is going to cause all sorts of 'mod' headaches. :(

I should now stop posting here as the 29 shares in my HYP include one that's deemed off-limits. 95% isn't good enough anymore, apparently.

I shall miss you all.

Goodbye.

Answering a comment on HYP Practical here.

Breelander

For what it's worth I read the guidance as not trying to drive people away, but rather to drive more of the traffic on to High Yield Strategies. I view this as a good thing, if a thread naturally flows on to something like a preference share on High Yield Strategies there should not be an argument about whether it is HYP or not and people can focus on the content, not the board rules.

Terry.

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Re: New Guidance & 'Rules' for High Yield Discussion Boards

#99122

Postby jackdaww » November 27th, 2017, 7:49 am

i noted earlier there is no mention in the HYP practical rules of pyad doris etc.

there is also no mention of the "income" aspect or of "capital preservation/growth" .

this leads me to think its ok to post about shares selected to give "total returns" .

shares selected from the ftse 350 will i think set a much lower market cap level than previously used on the hyp practical board .

i welcome such a board , but it would have been so much easier to retain the HYP practical as it was (and avoid alienating some) and simply remove the the word strategies from the other board , which could have suited the total returns people.

Raptor
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Re: New Guidance & 'Rules' for High Yield Discussion Boards

#99131

Postby Raptor » November 27th, 2017, 8:56 am

jackdaww wrote:i noted earlier there is no mention in the HYP practical rules of pyad doris etc.

there is also no mention of the "income" aspect or of "capital preservation/growth" .

this leads me to think its ok to post about shares selected to give "total returns" .

shares selected from the ftse 350 will i think set a much lower market cap level than previously used on the hyp practical board .

i welcome such a board , but it would have been so much easier to retain the HYP practical as it was (and avoid alienating some) and simply remove the the word strategies from the other board , which could have suited the total returns people.


As long as discussions are on HYP shares and "income" based on the High Yield then it is acceptable, mentioning what your capital growth or total returns are, would be fine as long as that does not take the post away from the "income" side or is the main aim of such post.

The LTBH sentence relates to the Doris approcach.

Raptor.

csearle
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Re: New Guidance & 'Rules' for High Yield Discussion Boards

#99322

Postby csearle » November 27th, 2017, 6:49 pm

jackdaww wrote:...there is also no mention of the "income" aspect...
Apart from "Practical discussions about equity High-Yield Portfolios (HYP) for income" here.

Chris

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Re: New Guidance & 'Rules' for High Yield Discussion Boards

#99327

Postby Breelander » November 27th, 2017, 7:00 pm

Wizard wrote:For what it's worth I read the guidance as not trying to drive people away, but rather to drive more of the traffic on to High Yield Strategies.


Guidance? It says RULES (in capitals).

As my HYP is only 99% 'pure as the driven snow' it doesn't qualify as being a HYP under the new rules.

As I follow 'Dorisian/Pyadic' principles in the main I would not welcome wide-ranging discussion that would inevitably follow reporting my 'HYP' on the strategies board (or any other).

No, I no longer feel welcome in such so narrowly focused a board as HYP Practical has apparently become. Moderation was never such a straight-jacket on TMF, which was what IMHO made HYPP the most active and popular (not just with HYPers) board on TMF. I have been reporting my HYP first on TMF and now on LMF since 2010. Sadly I feel nowhere is appropriate for further reports.

csearle
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Re: New Guidance & 'Rules' for High Yield Discussion Boards

#99332

Postby csearle » November 27th, 2017, 7:16 pm

Breelander wrote:Sadly I feel nowhere is appropriate for further reports.
If I were you I'd post as before and see if any moderation occurs. It may well be that the moderators of that board will not feel that your particular reports are so far off the mark as to warrant any action.

Hate to see you stop posting.

Regards,
Chris

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Re: New Guidance & 'Rules' for High Yield Discussion Boards

#99343

Postby Clariman » November 27th, 2017, 7:41 pm

Breelander wrote:
Wizard wrote:For what it's worth I read the guidance as not trying to drive people away, but rather to drive more of the traffic on to High Yield Strategies.


Guidance? It says RULES (in capitals).

As my HYP is only 99% 'pure as the driven snow' it doesn't qualify as being a HYP under the new rules.


The whole post title was in capitals, simply to draw attention to it. The word you pick out was in capitals only because the rest of it was.

If you look carefully youll see that the word rules is the only one in inverted commas to indicate that I was giving it a loose definition. Stooz and I are happy to allow the moderators to use common sense when implementing this. It was meant to be helpful rather than belligerent.

All the best
Clariman

Wizard
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Re: New Guidance & 'Rules' for High Yield Discussion Boards

#99348

Postby Wizard » November 27th, 2017, 7:51 pm

Breelander wrote:
Wizard wrote:For what it's worth I read the guidance as not trying to drive people away, but rather to drive more of the traffic on to High Yield Strategies.


Guidance? It says RULES (in capitals).

As my HYP is only 99% 'pure as the driven snow' it doesn't qualify as being a HYP under the new rules.

As I follow 'Dorisian/Pyadic' principles in the main I would not welcome wide-ranging discussion that would inevitably follow reporting my 'HYP' on the strategies board (or any other).

No, I no longer feel welcome in such so narrowly focused a board as HYP Practical has apparently become. Moderation was never such a straight-jacket on TMF, which was what IMHO made HYPP the most active and popular (not just with HYPers) board on TMF. I have been reporting my HYP first on TMF and now on LMF since 2010. Sadly I feel nowhere is appropriate for further reports.

Can you not just cover the 99% on HYP Practical? Other who own ITs for income for example adopt that approach IIRC.

Terry.

jackdaww
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Re: New Guidance & 'Rules' for High Yield Discussion Boards

#99376

Postby jackdaww » November 27th, 2017, 9:40 pm

csearle wrote:
jackdaww wrote:...there is also no mention of the "income" aspect...
Apart from "Practical discussions about equity High-Yield Portfolios (HYP) for income" here.

Chris


===========================

i am saying there is no mention of INCOME in the new RULES on hype practical .

as income is a fundamental and often emphasised tenet in the "old" HYP , i would say it is a minimum requirement to be covered in the new RULES.

PinkDalek
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Re: New Guidance & 'Rules' for High Yield Discussion Boards

#99379

Postby PinkDalek » November 27th, 2017, 9:55 pm

jackdaww wrote:
csearle wrote:
jackdaww wrote:...there is also no mention of the "income" aspect...
Apart from "Practical discussions about equity High-Yield Portfolios (HYP) for income" here.

Chris


===========================

i am saying there is no mention of INCOME in the new RULES on hype practical .

as income is a fundamental and often emphasised tenet in the "old" HYP , i would say it is a minimum requirement to be covered in the new RULES.


Does not “Dividend yield above the average” deal with your concern?

As in High Yield.

jackdaww
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Re: New Guidance & 'Rules' for High Yield Discussion Boards

#99387

Postby jackdaww » November 27th, 2017, 10:19 pm

PinkDalek wrote:
jackdaww wrote:
csearle wrote:Apart from "Practical discussions about equity High-Yield Portfolios (HYP) for income" here.

Chris


===========================

i am saying there is no mention of INCOME in the new RULES on hype practical .

as income is a fundamental and often emphasised tenet in the "old" HYP , i would say it is a minimum requirement to be covered in the new RULES.


Does not “Dividend yield above the average” deal with your concern?

As in High Yield.


=========================

i seem to be struggling to get my point across.

i have lost count of the number of posts on HYP practical that say , in one way or another , that it is INCOME eg dividends that are the paramount objective , and that capital doesnt matter .

the "new" RULES dont touch on this at all , and they really must cover it very clearly.

otherwise confusion (or worse) will continue and the moderators will have an ongoing muddle.

:cry:

ps. i am still surprised there are not smarter people than me who are absent or lying low .

perhaps they dont look in the buscuit bar...

;)

Breelander
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Re: New Guidance & 'Rules' for High Yield Discussion Boards

#99396

Postby Breelander » November 27th, 2017, 10:50 pm

Wizard wrote:Can you not just cover the 99% on HYP Practical? Other who own ITs for income for example adopt that approach IIRC.


Have you ever tried retrospectively recalculating eight years of unitisation?

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Re: New Guidance & 'Rules' for High Yield Discussion Boards

#99402

Postby Dod101 » November 27th, 2017, 11:13 pm

I must say that I think the owners of the site have been drawn into a never ending argument. I would have thought that a discussion Board about a HYP philosophy would have concentrated on yield or income.

I think the whole argument would have been better to have been knocked on the head weeks ago and simply been allowed to muddle along. (It will do that anyway so why try to change it?)

Dod

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Re: New Guidance & 'Rules' for High Yield Discussion Boards

#99403

Postby Clariman » November 27th, 2017, 11:19 pm

Dod101 wrote:I must say that I think the owners of the site have been drawn into a never ending argument. I would have thought that a discussion Board about a HYP philosophy would have concentrated on yield or income.

Dod


I think everyone should keep their cool. The new guidelines are meant to help. We don't pretend this site is perfect but we do our best - which is better than the alternative that presented itself to everyone this time last year. Moderators will use their common sense. No set of guidelines for these boards could please everyone.

Thank you and goodnight.

C

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Re: New Guidance & 'Rules' for High Yield Discussion Boards

#99461

Postby Dod101 » November 28th, 2017, 9:28 am

One of the RULES is that a share must have a dividend yield above the average of the FTSE100.
Another is that the HYP must be of at least 15 shares none from the same sector.

These two rules in themselves rule out my HYP from the HYP Practical Board and I am beginning to see where Bree is coming from. If we want to talk about say Unilever then, since it is not a HYP share, it must be discussed elsewhere. Whether it would be acceptable to discuss it on the HYP Strategies Board I do not know because if it is not a HYP share how could it be?

Why it has been decided to make the rules so prescriptive I do not know, although the 'guidance' from the mods has been moving in that direction since this site was established.

I am strong minded enough to know what works for me as a HYP and it is neither the original pyadic type HYP nor the HYP proscribed by the new rules. Where should it be discussed please?

I would have had a lot more sympathy with making a change if it had been an attempt to separate discussion between those who are building a HYP and those who are drawing an income from it because it can be argued that two separate and different approaches are needed depending on which stage you are at.

Dod

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Re: New Guidance & 'Rules' for High Yield Discussion Boards

#99475

Postby jackdaww » November 28th, 2017, 10:14 am

Dod101 wrote:
....
If we want to talk about say Unilever then, since it is not a HYP share, it must be discussed elsewhere. Whether it would be acceptable to discuss it on the HYP Strategies Board I do not know because if it is not a HYP share how could it be?

I am strong minded enough to know what works for me as a HYP and it is neither the original pyadic type HYP nor the HYP proscribed by the new rules. Where should it be discussed please?

Dod


===========================

if we want to talk about a SHARE , such as unilever , it must be on a SHARES discussion board - NOT STRATEGIES .

discussing a share is NOT a strategy.

clearly the current boards are not satisfactory .

have we been asked for ideas ? perhaps followed by polls ?

:cry:

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Re: New Guidance & 'Rules' for High Yield Discussion Boards

#99476

Postby PinkDalek » November 28th, 2017, 10:15 am

Dod101 wrote:... If we want to talk about say Unilever then, since it is not a HYP share, it must be discussed elsewhere. ...


The BOARD GUIDANCE AND 'RULES' viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8651 on High Yield Portfolios (HYP) - Practical include:

Discussion of potential shares, and of shares which have been selected in the past, is acceptable on the HYP Practical Board.

That would cover, say, Unilever.


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