home made sourdough

[Urbandreamer]

About two months ago I decided to experiment making sourdough bread.

I'm just about getting tolerable at it now, though still have plenty to learn. It's great fun, though I'm not sure that I could fit it in if I still worked.

Here is my current method.
Late afternoon/evening: mix flour, water and starter. Sprinkle with salt.
Wait 1 hr.
Knead. Putting some effort into this has made huge improvements. I now knead for 15min.
Put in fridge overnight.
Morning remove from fridge. wait while having breakfast, then briefly knead again, this is to even the temperature out.
Put in oiled box to bulk ferment for about 4 hr, until doubled.
Shape and put in a sandwich/pullman tin to prove for about 2hr, judge by rise.
Bake.

No point in giving a recipe, as I'm still fiddling. It's a mix of white, wholemeal and rye flours. I'm aiming at about 80% hydration which makes for a very sticky dough when starting to knead.

Anyway it's fun. If I get better I may post as to how I did it.

[Dicky99]

I don't know how you manage to handle it at 80% hydration. I start to struggle at anything wetter than 65%

[servodude]

Checking my notes....

I do an overnight levain of 100g each flour, starter and water

The in the morning I add 500g strong flour, 300g water and salt (about 1 tblspoon) - mix through and leave for ~1hr

I probably do 4 sets of folds/stretches about 45minutes apart - depending on how it feels

Then I work/kneed it for about 5 minutes on a floured surface before transferring to the baneton (lined with rice flour)
- kneeding it longer gets a more "cakey" texture and I kind of like the odd big bubble in sourdough

Cover and leave until it's doubled (which can take anywhere from 3 to 6 hrs depending on the temp)

Fold it out on to some baking paper: score it with a lame, nearly an inch deep at the centre, in a 3 big scores (or 6 wee ones) - otherwise it explodes

Lift on the paper in to a heavy cast pot and shove that in (cold because I didn't see any benefit to preheating it and it's a helluva lot more hassle) to a 225 deg heated oven

Lift the lid off the pot after 40 minutes and take the thing out 15 after that

leave it for an hour to continue to bake - and then eat in a fraction of the time it takes to make it

here's one from not long ago:

- the baneton rings let me work out how much of a rise I'm actually getting


-sd

[swill453]

Checking my notes....

I do an overnight levain

Who'd have thought that something as basic as making a loaf of bread could introduce so many words I've never heard before?

Levain? Baneton? Lame?

Scott.

[servodude]

Checking my notes....

I do an overnight levain

Who'd have thought that something as basic as making a loaf of bread could introduce so many words I've never heard before?

Levain? Baneton? Lame?

Scott.

I've a funny feeling the French were involved somewhere; feel free to read those as mix, basket and blade

[Urbandreamer]

Who'd have thought that something as basic as making a loaf of bread could introduce so many words I've never heard before?

Levain? Baneton? Lame?

Scott.

I've a funny feeling the French were involved somewhere; feel free to read those as mix, basket and blade

Leaven / levain carries the meaning of yeast (or technically rising agent), hence the term unleavened breads like Chapati.

Though to be fair, we could have talked Poolish and Biga which originate from other countries, or sponge. All started the day before.

Ah jargon, so useful when specific descriptions are needed.

The trick I found with high hydration's is to expect them to be sticky and knead a lot. Using water and a bench scraper to gather the dough from time to time.
Even then my dough collapses under it's own weight, which is why I'm using a tin to bake.

I'm struggling to use a Lame though. The dough doesn't cut, grabbing the blade instead. I'm going to try switching to cold proving in an attempt to help that. If that doesn't work I'll try less wet dough.

[servodude]

I've a funny feeling the French were involved somewhere; feel free to read those as mix, basket and blade

Leaven / levain carries the meaning of yeast (or technically rising agent), hence the term unleavened breads like Chapati.

Though to be fair, we could have talked Poolish and Biga which originate from other countries, or sponge. All started the day before.

Ah jargon, so useful when specific descriptions are needed.

The trick I found with high hydration's is to expect them to be sticky and knead a lot. Using water and a bench scraper to gather the dough from time to time.
Even then my dough collapses under it's own weight, which is why I'm using a tin to bake.

I'm struggling to use a Lame though. The dough doesn't cut, grabbing the blade instead. I'm going to try switching to cold proving in an attempt to help that. If that doesn't work I'll try less wet dough.

I could never get the hang of a wet dough and scraping
- I always seemed to end up adding loads of flour when working to compensate for it (and invariably needed to reach for "something" while my hands were in no fit state)

Even with the recipe as I put above it can feel pretty gooey at the pulling stage (wet hands help) compared to making a standard loaf

I think proving in the baneton helps with the cutting, whether that's the rice flour dusting, or if it can breathe slightly there, I'm not sure, but there's a decent surface tension (if I've got the glutens going) when turned out that seems to just peel apart when you slice it

-sd

[Urbandreamer]

I could never get the hang of a wet dough and scraping
- I always seemed to end up adding loads of flour when working to compensate for it (and invariably needed to reach for "something" while my hands were in no fit state)

Even with the recipe as I put above it can feel pretty gooey at the pulling stage (wet hands help) compared to making a standard loaf

I think proving in the baneton helps with the cutting, whether that's the rice flour dusting, or if it can breathe slightly there, I'm not sure, but there's a decent surface tension (if I've got the glutens going) when turned out that seems to just peel apart when you slice it

-sd

Thanks for the tip. My banneton it too small to be useful. I was concerned that the result would fit inside a pot! I'll try your suggestion using a teatowel lined bowel. If it helps, then I'll replace the banneton

Re wet dough and kneading. Don't use flour when kneading! I wet surface and let hands get coated at first. Planning helps avoid needing to use sticky hands for anything other than the scraper.
As you say, wet hands help, but I'd wait until the glutens get going before getting concerned about how much it sticks to you. I find that by the second knead, the day after, the dough is no longer really sticky.

I do use flour on the surface after the bulk ferment, as I want to be careful handling the dough at that point. The opposite to when kneading.

Ps, your bread looks great.

[redsturgeon]

I have also started on the sourdough journey recently. My recipe is 80g starter, 375g water, 500g strong white flour, so a 75% hydration which I find works for me.

The keys I have found are making sure the starter is strong, building the gluten structure with coil folding rather than kneading.

I like a nice open crumb structure.

I am happy with about 80% of my output but trying to get more oven spring and a nicer "ear".

John

[redsturgeon]

[Urbandreamer]

You lot are making me all jealous with your photo's.

So I thought that I'd go back to basics, well sort of.
I followed the recipe for India Pale Ale and Cardamom Loaf from James Morton's "Brilliant Bread". (76% hydration)

Used a floured tea towel in a bowl as a banneton. Used a Lame with agro!
It's cooling on a rack as I post.

It looks great. Just one thing though. I don't consider it sourdough. Sure it has 200g of starter, but it also relies upon dried yeast. This is apparently needed as the hop flavor would deteriorate during sourdough proving times.

I'm dying to try it, but know better. Flavor develops as bread cools.

[redsturgeon]

We need photos.

[Urbandreamer]

I'm going to have to figure out how.
I did manage a photo, but ran into "may only be 1200 pixels high".
Here is a link, while I figure out how to use either Krita or Gimp to manipulate images.
https://imgur.com/sITMrSh
https://imgur.com/mLwRrgz

Ps the "starter" in the background isn't yet. I used almost all my active starter, hence it's mostly flour and water.
Oh and the aftertaste of cardamom may put some off this bread.

[Itsallaguess]

I'm going to have to figure out how.

I did manage a photo, but ran into "may only be 1200 pixels high".

Here you go -



Source is your earlier post here - https://www.lemonfool.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=40674#p615881

Two quick and dirty methods to resize pictures -

• Use this free online Picresize site to force the pixel-height to 1200, which will maintain all related ratios and then allow a more straightforward updload of any re-sized pictures - https://picresize.com/

• Do exactly what you've done to get your earlier IMGUR links, but when reviewing the uploaded pictures on the IMGUR site, use CTRL and the plus or minus keys on your keyboard to set the browser-zoom to a smaller level, and then re-capture the smaller in-browser pictures using a Snipping Tool or similar, and then re-upload those smaller snapped images back to IMGUR to get some new URL links..

Both of the above processes sound a lot more complicated and time-consuming than they really are...

By the way - the loaf looks absolutely delicious...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[Dicky99]

the aftertaste of cardamom may put some off this bread.

It's what I thought...the flavour of cardamon is very much a marmite thing but the IPA inclusion sounds interesting.
The finished result looks excellent, really artisan.

[Urbandreamer]

the aftertaste of cardamom may put some off this bread.

It's what I thought...the flavour of cardamon is very much a marmite thing but the IPA inclusion sounds interesting.
The finished result looks excellent, really artisan.

A word of warning about using the likes of IPA. As someone who made beer as a hobby, I know that booze kills yeast. Folks worry about salt killing yeast, and it does. But you need to think about choices if using beer in bread.

This example was made with a craft beer, that though described as IPA, had less ABV at 3.7% than many bitters.

Most GOOD IPA's are not light in booze.

[redsturgeon]

Nice looking loaf. I have to say I have not got to the experimentation with flavours or different grains yet. I want to perfect the simple white bread flour loaf first.

It is fun though isn't it.

John

[Urbandreamer]

Nice looking loaf. I have to say I have not got to the experimentation with flavours or different grains yet. I want to perfect the simple white bread flour loaf first.

It is fun though isn't it.

John

It seriously is. I got to experimenting with grains because Rye auto-ferments better than other grains. So it seemed the obvious place to start for sourdough.

The most amazing experience I had was with my "too small" banneton. Because it was too small I divided the same dough in half. I proved one in the banneton and one in a bowl. Then baked them side by side in the oven.

They were remarkably different. Not one was better, but both different in taste!

Bread is COMPLEX!

[James]

Checking my notes....

I do an overnight levain of 100g each flour, starter and water

The in the morning I add 500g strong flour, 300g water and salt (about 1 tblspoon) - mix through and leave for ~1hr

I probably do 4 sets of folds/stretches about 45minutes apart - depending on how it feels

Then I work/kneed it for about 5 minutes on a floured surface before transferring to the baneton (lined with rice flour)
- kneeding it longer gets a more "cakey" texture and I kind of like the odd big bubble in sourdough

Cover and leave until it's doubled (which can take anywhere from 3 to 6 hrs depending on the temp)

Fold it out on to some baking paper: score it with a lame, nearly an inch deep at the centre, in a 3 big scores (or 6 wee ones) - otherwise it explodes

Lift on the paper in to a heavy cast pot and shove that in (cold because I didn't see any benefit to preheating it and it's a helluva lot more hassle) to a 225 deg heated oven

Lift the lid off the pot after 40 minutes and take the thing out 15 after that

leave it for an hour to continue to bake - and then eat in a fraction of the time it takes to make it

here's one from not long ago:

- the baneton rings let me work out how much of a rise I'm actually getting


-sd

I walk five minutes to the bakery, buy bread, walk five minutes home and eat bread.
On my salary this 10 minutes plus the cost of the bread is a rational allocation of my resources.

[Dicky99]

-sd

I walk five minutes to the bakery, buy bread, walk five minutes home and eat bread.
On my salary this 10 minutes plus the cost of the bread is a rational allocation of my resources.

I walk 10 minutes and back again to the supermarket to buy cheese, amongst other things, but on a miserable rainy day like today I am engaged in making some home made goats cheese. It'll be ready to eat in about 7 days and will taste all the more amazing because I created it