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Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

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Satsuma
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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#166016

Postby Satsuma » September 13th, 2018, 8:36 am

Loup321 wrote:I've read this thread, although it doesn't apply to me (don't have a Halifax card...).

Today, my American Express direct debit was taken. Just before the last statement my OH hired a van. It was paid for using the Amex card, and a £200 charge also applied to the card (to cover any damage my OH caused). After the statement date, the £200 charge was reversed (no damage was caused). Today, the direct debit for the full amount on the statement was taken, so my account is £53 in credit. It will be back in the red before the next statement is issued, so it's no problem for me.

So, this thread covers how American Express operate their Platinum Cashback Card (and probably many others). I wasn't aware, because I don't often have refunds or make interim payments. Thanks for drawing my attention to this!

Lou


That's interesting Lou. I just checked my August American Express statement - it says this just under the payments box at the top of page 1 (my emphasis). I wonder if they have different policies for different cards?:

The payment specified above will be debited from your bank on the direct debit date shown or shortly after. Please note, this
amount may be adjusted in response to payments or credits received up to four days before your Direct Debit Due date
.

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#166020

Postby melonfool » September 13th, 2018, 9:14 am

I find Amex very odd - I've just closed my Nectar one, but it was always texting telling me payment was due, then on the web page saying it was due last day of the month, then taking the DD around the 19th of the month, but also adding debits/credits from after the statement date to when the DD went.

I found it most confusing to know how much I was due to pay and when.

That wasn't why I closed it though, it had a year fee-free and that year was more or less up, though I had a very good run of Nectar points from it.

Mel

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#168656

Postby Satsuma » September 24th, 2018, 5:22 pm

Just had a message from Halifax that simply reads:


"Miss Sats REMINDER: if you make extra payments to your credit card at any time this will not reduce your Direct Debit"


(given that I've had it confirmed that it's only payments made after the statement snapshot is taken that are disregarded, this seems specifically inaccurate - but they are clearly doubling down on their general bizarre T&C change. I have just realised that today is switchover day, so I guess that was the trigger for the text)

Has anyone else had similar?
Sats

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#169723

Postby absolutezero » September 28th, 2018, 9:16 am

I can confirm they take the direct debit regardless of any payments.
It's just happened to me.
I just got a text from Halifax telling me my current account was overdrawn and I should pay in money immediately to avoid penalties.
Thought this was suspect. Never been overdrawn in my life! I even keep a spreadsheet of my balance and all expected payments so I know what's left in.

I made a large purchase on the clarity card earlier this month so I manually paid in enough to completely clear the balance before making the purchase.
The direct debit for last month has just been taken today - identical to the amount I manually paid.
At least it means next month's bill is about a fiver!

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#169728

Postby chas49 » September 28th, 2018, 9:25 am

It must still depend on the dates when the spending and repayment happened relative to the statement and direct debit date though I think.

Purely based on my experience (figures slightly adjusted)

Statement 20 August - balance £60

Spending 1 Sep to 13 Sep - £2450

DD taken 14 Sep - £60

Manual payment* 20 Sep - £2400

Statement 20 September - balance £50

Was I just "lucky" that the manual payment (actually bal transfer to Barclaycard interest free, zero fee!) happened to arrive just before the statement was prodiced?

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#169734

Postby absolutezero » September 28th, 2018, 9:37 am

chas49 wrote:Was I just "lucky" that the manual payment (actually bal transfer to Barclaycard interest free, zero fee!) happened to arrive just before the statement was prodiced?

Yes.
It seems that once the statement is calculated then that's it. They will take that amount from your account on the allotted date regardless of what else you do in the meantime.
Short of cancelling the DD I guess.

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#169749

Postby chas49 » September 28th, 2018, 10:14 am

absolutezero wrote:
chas49 wrote:Was I just "lucky" that the manual payment (actually bal transfer to Barclaycard interest free, zero fee!) happened to arrive just before the statement was prodiced?

Yes.
It seems that once the statement is calculated then that's it. They will take that amount from your account on the allotted date regardless of what else you do in the meantime.
Short of cancelling the DD I guess.


That seems to make sense I suppose. Though I don't quite follow why your DD ignored your payment. You say you paid the amount in before making the purchase. Did they not both appear on the same statement then? In which case, the DD would have taken account of the payment surely.

They do seem to have created a confusing situation....

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#169757

Postby absolutezero » September 28th, 2018, 10:28 am

chas49 wrote:
absolutezero wrote:
chas49 wrote:Was I just "lucky" that the manual payment (actually bal transfer to Barclaycard interest free, zero fee!) happened to arrive just before the statement was prodiced?

Yes.
It seems that once the statement is calculated then that's it. They will take that amount from your account on the allotted date regardless of what else you do in the meantime.
Short of cancelling the DD I guess.


That seems to make sense I suppose. Though I don't quite follow why your DD ignored your payment. You say you paid the amount in before making the purchase. Did they not both appear on the same statement then? In which case, the DD would have taken account of the payment surely.

They do seem to have created a confusing situation....

No. I paid the full balance a few days after the statement date to create room for the large purchase.
In theory this could create a situation where they owe you money - but sadly won't pay 17% interest!

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#169835

Postby Satsuma » September 28th, 2018, 1:27 pm

chas49 wrote:Yes.
It seems that once the statement is calculated then that's it. They will take that amount from your account on the allotted date regardless of what else you do in the meantime.
Short of cancelling the DD I guess.


Yes, this is the crucial change (my emphasis).
It's going to be interesting to see how Clarity customers react when more and more of them have Chas's experience and find their bank balances down the same amount twice.

I also imagine Halifax's permanent "we are experiencing high demand" call centre message will be met with a lot of hollow laughter.

chas49 wrote:In theory this could create a situation where they owe you money - but sadly won't pay 17% interest!


This was the single reason the complaints lady kept giving me about why I shouldn't manually pay. They aren't really concerned that customers are putting their accounts in credit (not when I expect they can make some interest off it!); or that it'll mean customers have to call up for a refund etc


Their only solutions are:
1. Cancel the DD entirely (and run the risk of missing a payment/affecting your credit score)
2. Set it to minimum payment only (and then have to fanny about working out what needs paying when and postentially incurring interest
3. Set it to a fixed payment (ditto)

4. Or, in my case, complete my Santander Zero card application and bin Clarity off.

I am strongly swayed to 4 now. I am just going to double check their T&Cs with fresh eyes to make sure they still work on the old "normal" way with manual payments.

(I did send an outline of this whole thing to two personal finance journos/websites weeks ago, but didn't hear a dickybird back from them.)

Sats

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#169839

Postby chas49 » September 28th, 2018, 1:44 pm

Just for accuracy it was absolutezero's post that was quoted, and who had the large amount debited, I was lucky that my payment arrived before the statement date

Fixed quotes belwo:
Satsuma wrote:
absolutezero wrote:Yes.
It seems that once the statement is calculated then that's it. They will take that amount from your account on the allotted date regardless of what else you do in the meantime.
Short of cancelling the DD I guess.


Yes, this is the crucial change (my emphasis).
It's going to be interesting to see how Clarity customers react when more and more of them have absolutezero's experience and find their bank balances down the same amount twice.

I also imagine Halifax's permanent "we are experiencing high demand" call centre message will be met with a lot of hollow laughter.

absolutezero wrote:In theory this could create a situation where they owe you money - but sadly won't pay 17% interest!


This was the single reason the complaints lady kept giving me about why I shouldn't manually pay. They aren't really concerned that customers are putting their accounts in credit (not when I expect they can make some interest off it!); or that it'll mean customers have to call up for a refund etc


Their only solutions are:
1. Cancel the DD entirely (and run the risk of missing a payment/affecting your credit score)
2. Set it to minimum payment only (and then have to fanny about working out what needs paying when and postentially incurring interest
3. Set it to a fixed payment (ditto)

4. Or, in my case, complete my Santander Zero card application and bin Clarity off.

I am strongly swayed to 4 now. I am just going to double check their T&Cs with fresh eyes to make sure they still work on the old "normal" way with manual payments.

(I did send an outline of this whole thing to two personal finance journos/websites weeks ago, but didn't hear a dickybird back from them.)

Sats

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#169842

Postby Satsuma » September 28th, 2018, 1:51 pm

Apologies and thanks for the clarification Chas!

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#169850

Postby absolutezero » September 28th, 2018, 2:03 pm

I''m happy with Clarity - I like the no overseas fees and the spot on conversion to the MasterCard exchange rate.
I work abroad a fair bit so it's useful.
This change is annoying but I just won't make any extra payments.

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#171009

Postby Satsuma » October 3rd, 2018, 10:04 am

I sent a message to MSE way back when I first queried this. There is finally an article about it and, predicatably, people are now realising what it means in practice: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/ ... mers-caugh

FWIW, I am considering a Tandem card - https://www.tandem.co.uk/credit-card
(Same zero fees and preferential bank rates, but cashback on purchases as well)

Sats

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#171323

Postby GoSeigen » October 4th, 2018, 9:10 am

Satsuma wrote:I sent a message to MSE way back when I first queried this. There is finally an article about it and, predicatably, people are now realising what it means in practice: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/ ... mers-caugh

FWIW, I am considering a Tandem card - https://www.tandem.co.uk/credit-card
(Same zero fees and preferential bank rates, but cashback on purchases as well)

Sats



It's possible Halifax want to quietly kill this card because it's not longer profitable for them? Death by a thousand cuts...

GS

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#171331

Postby swill453 » October 4th, 2018, 9:27 am

GoSeigen wrote:It's possible Halifax want to quietly kill this card because it's not longer profitable for them? Death by a thousand cuts...

The Moneysavingexpert article says the change applies to all Lloyds, Halifax and Bank of Scotland credit cards, so unless they want to completely leave the credit card market that seems an unlikely explanation.

Scott.

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#171335

Postby GoSeigen » October 4th, 2018, 9:35 am

swill453 wrote:
GoSeigen wrote:It's possible Halifax want to quietly kill this card because it's not longer profitable for them? Death by a thousand cuts...

The Moneysavingexpert article says the change applies to all Lloyds, Halifax and Bank of Scotland credit cards, so unless they want to completely leave the credit card market that seems an unlikely explanation.

Scott.


Ah I hadn't seen that. Sounds more like cock-up then, perhaps developers given too much power or key decision overlooked/went the wrong way.

FWIW, whenever I speak to Halifax I make the point (and ask for it to be fed back to management) that this way of handling the direct debit should be presented as an additional option for customers, not a replacement for the previous option of paying the full statement balance and no more.

GS

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#171342

Postby swill453 » October 4th, 2018, 9:44 am

GoSeigen wrote:Ah I hadn't seen that. Sounds more like cock-up then, perhaps developers given too much power or key decision overlooked/went the wrong way.

Well their explanation* makes absolutely no sense when applied to customers who pay their full balance by direct debit so I would tend to agree it's a cock-up. Probably an unintended consequence of implementing some new Direct Debit system which doesn't get passed information about additional payments in the interim period.

* - "From now on, if a customer makes a payment to their credit card account, it will no longer reduce their direct debit amount but will count as an additional payment, allowing them to reduce their balance more quickly."

Scott.

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#171343

Postby richfool » October 4th, 2018, 9:45 am

I haven't had a statement yet to prove the point, but I still think that if a part or full payment is made before the statement date, then the statement balance will be net of that payment and the direct debit amount will thus be set up similarly net of it.

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#171345

Postby swill453 » October 4th, 2018, 9:48 am

richfool wrote:I haven't had a statement yet to prove the point, but I still think that if a part or full payment is made before the statement date, then the statement balance will be net of that payment and the direct debit amount will thus be set up similarly net of it.

I don't think anyone has suggested otherwise. The issue is with payments made between the statement date and the Direct Debit date (or a couple of days before it, anyway).

Scott.

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Re: Halifax Clarity T&C change - interim manual payments now not accounted for?

#171348

Postby absolutezero » October 4th, 2018, 9:57 am

GoSeigen wrote:
Satsuma wrote:I sent a message to MSE way back when I first queried this. There is finally an article about it and, predicatably, people are now realising what it means in practice: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/ ... mers-caugh

FWIW, I am considering a Tandem card - https://www.tandem.co.uk/credit-card
(Same zero fees and preferential bank rates, but cashback on purchases as well)

Sats



It's possible Halifax want to quietly kill this card because it's not longer profitable for them? Death by a thousand cuts...

GS

I hardly think altering a direct debit policy that probably only affect a few thousand nerds that monitor their finances is a deliberate policy to p1ss people off!


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