Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to johnstevens77,Bhoddhisatva,scotia,Anonymous,Cornytiv34, for Donating to support the site

Seedrs secondary market

Sophisticated and complex high-risk tax-sensitive investments in small companies: handle with care
UncleEbenezer
The full Lemon
Posts: 10692
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Has thanked: 1459 times
Been thanked: 2965 times

Seedrs secondary market

#58037

Postby UncleEbenezer » June 6th, 2017, 9:41 am

Anyone else among seedrs users here been taking an interest in their much-hyped secondary market?

It's still advertised as due to launch on June 6th (i.e. today). But as before, the link is just a vacuous advert, and seedrs aren't responding to a question. Has anyone seen or heard news of this alleged market?

Kidman
Lemon Slice
Posts: 438
Joined: November 6th, 2016, 1:10 pm
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 136 times

Re: Seedrs secondary market

#58156

Postby Kidman » June 6th, 2017, 4:29 pm

I'm not sure quite what to expect but it looks like it's been launched, albeit in a beta version with the following note:-
During our Beta launch, shares will trade at "fair value" and only investors who are already a shareholder in a business will be able to buy shares.

UncleEbenezer
The full Lemon
Posts: 10692
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Has thanked: 1459 times
Been thanked: 2965 times

Re: Seedrs secondary market

#58158

Postby UncleEbenezer » June 6th, 2017, 4:35 pm

Replying to self, the market has now materialised. It's a "for sale" board, advertising a little over 100 lots from people looking to sell. One is only eligible to buy companies of which one already owns shares, and nothing available to me looked interesting.

FWIW, there seem to be anomalies in seedrs's pricing, but no opportunity to take advantage. No shares offered at seedrs price £1.00 in an investee whose current funding round is heavily oversubscribed at £3.90, which had been my prime target ;)

Three offerings for which I was eligible and which I'd've considered at current prices were already under offer when I looked.

Vulgaris
2 Lemon pips
Posts: 113
Joined: February 11th, 2017, 7:14 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 29 times

Re: Seedrs secondary market

#58175

Postby Vulgaris » June 6th, 2017, 7:03 pm

Seems that you have to offer shares for sale at a 'strike price', which Seedrs sets. These prices correspond to the valuations that Seedrs' have been recently applying to portfolios. You can only buy into companies where you hold shares already. It's all a bit clunky but one has to start somewhere and I was reassured to see that two lots of one share I hold (Veeqo) 'under offer (which apparently means that someone has committed to buy at Seedr's price)' at a price well above what I original paid.That seems to imply that someone somewhere believes that Seedrs valuations aren't just moonshine.

UncleEbenezer
The full Lemon
Posts: 10692
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Has thanked: 1459 times
Been thanked: 2965 times

Re: Seedrs secondary market

#64815

Postby UncleEbenezer » July 4th, 2017, 10:55 pm

Seems to be rather successful. July's session has been open less than 12 hours, and most of the lots (including all but one of fourteen for which I'm eligible) are under offer.

None I'd wish to buy without the benefit of EIS right now. But if this rate of activity can be sustained, it looks like a good exit for investments one falls out of love with, as and when EIS rules permit.

[edit] Not quite most of the lots. Evidently my investments are more popular than average. 8-)

UncleEbenezer
The full Lemon
Posts: 10692
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Has thanked: 1459 times
Been thanked: 2965 times

Re: Seedrs secondary market

#102560

Postby UncleEbenezer » December 7th, 2017, 6:06 pm

It's seedrs secondary week again.

It seems to have somewhat stabilised. I see some investees with all shares shown as "under offer", others "available". More of the latter than the former: if a share is desirable enough to snap up then few are selling. Only one of my investees has a foot in both camps, with some lots traded, others remaining unsold.

Clearly we're seeing a need for better price discovery than seedrs's arbitrary price. Will they respond to it?

Ramage
Posts: 16
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 4:19 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Seedrs secondary market

#115928

Postby Ramage » February 5th, 2018, 6:27 pm

Some experience to share and thoughts.
Have offered a number of lots for sale, this is now a much simpler process than when market started.
Lots for companies that are struggling have not sold for me. Have managed to top slice some holdings and bank tax free profits.
Profits taken are much smaller than losses from company failures, but on paper am still in the black and IRR still slightly above that from my VCTs and much higher when tax advantages within Seedrs are included.
On pricing has anyone seen a company with a Seedrs increased valuation? This is possible after 3 years with out a fundraise. All mine in that group have failed, are valued at zero or the value of the last round.
Seedrs have this month removed the requirement to be an existing shareholder when purchasing shares. I will watch with interest to see how they have addressed the information asymmetry question and any errors in the "fair value" of shares.

Ramage.

UncleEbenezer
The full Lemon
Posts: 10692
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Has thanked: 1459 times
Been thanked: 2965 times

Re: Seedrs secondary market

#115980

Postby UncleEbenezer » February 5th, 2018, 9:59 pm

Ramage wrote:Some experience to share and thoughts.
Have offered a number of lots for sale, this is now a much simpler process than when market started.
Lots for companies that are struggling have not sold for me. Have managed to top slice some holdings and bank tax free profits.
Profits taken are much smaller than losses from company failures, but on paper am still in the black and IRR still slightly above that from my VCTs and much higher when tax advantages within Seedrs are included.
On pricing has anyone seen a company with a Seedrs increased valuation? This is possible after 3 years with out a fundraise. All mine in that group have failed, are valued at zero or the value of the last round.
Seedrs have this month removed the requirement to be an existing shareholder when purchasing shares. I will watch with interest to see how they have addressed the information asymmetry question and any errors in the "fair value" of shares.

Ramage.

Damn. Didn't realised they'd removed the restriction. If I had, I'd have taken the trouble to offer some shares this month :(

Some comparative experience. I've offered just one lot for sale, a couple of times. At £500, unchanged from my purchase price (but I still profit from the tax break). No takers - probably for the same reason I was looking to sell: it seems to be going nowhere. Guess it'll have to wait to March to try again.

I have one or two other lots out of EIS shackles which I've considered offering, but haven't actually done the deed. The best of them have been positive experiences and would generate good profits (and might be snapped up for much the same reasons). I also one that's still within the EIS period, but where I've been seriously considering trying to dump despite the tax penalty.

As for revaluations, Pod Point seems to have been (slightly) revalued more recently (May 2017) than the last funding round (Apr 2016). Though I think (memory is hazy) they may have raised elsewhere: the Apr16 raise was tiny, and (again from memory) the seedrs raise was limited to existing investors' preemption rights. Otherwise valuations seem to correspond with the most recent funding round, except for one investee that went belly-up already.

UncleEbenezer
The full Lemon
Posts: 10692
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Has thanked: 1459 times
Been thanked: 2965 times

Re: Seedrs secondary market

#128268

Postby UncleEbenezer » March 27th, 2018, 11:47 am

I've now gone through to completion with a secondary market sale. All went smoothly and the money is now in my investment account.

This is not the holding I've been failing to dispose for months because noone wants it. It's something I was much more ambivalent about selling. It's just out of EIS restrictions, and still at my purchase price. So that's a tax break and a shareholder perk banked, but no profit.

UncleEbenezer
The full Lemon
Posts: 10692
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Has thanked: 1459 times
Been thanked: 2965 times

Re: Seedrs secondary market

#191849

Postby UncleEbenezer » January 8th, 2019, 6:29 am

This month, my first two real profits. Two secondary market sales, both having more than doubled my original investments (and that's before factoring in additional profits due to EIS, and in one case SEIS!)

Of course it's still not all smelling of roses. These are companies whose news flow has been positive: they look like Good Investments - hence someone wanting to buy my lots! And in both cases I just top-sliced: these are not the holdings I want rid of!

Those investments I really want to see the back of are, of course, not selling. With no price discovery in the seedrs secondary market, they just list at the seedrs You Must Be Joking price, being the price I originally paid and looking hopelessly forlorn.


Return to “Venture Capital Trusts (VCT's)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests