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LEI & Discretionary trust & share dealing

Discuss Brokers, trading, fees, experiences
felixcanis
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LEI & Discretionary trust & share dealing

#77861

Postby felixcanis » August 30th, 2017, 10:59 am

Just had an e-mail from HL indicating the Will trust run by my OH needs to get a LEI (Legal Entity Identifier) from the LSE by Jan 2018, or the trust won't be able to perform any more share transactions.

The fees for getting a LEI are £115+VAT with an annual maintenance fee of £70+VAT. That's a lot of money for a Will Trust set up to give specific shares to a group of grandchildren...

The trust is discretionary, with the will indicating the shares should be distributed once the grandchildren reach 25. The youngest one is 17. Is there any way around this?

FelixC

PinkDalek
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Re: LEI & Discretionary trust & share dealing

#77891

Postby PinkDalek » August 30th, 2017, 12:40 pm

felixcanis wrote:Just had an e-mail from HL indicating the Will trust run by my OH needs to get a LEI (Legal Entity Identifier) from the LSE by Jan 2018, or the trust won't be able to perform any more share transactions.

The fees for getting a LEI are £115+VAT with an annual maintenance fee of £70+VAT. That's a lot of money for a Will Trust set up to give specific shares to a group of grandchildren...

The trust is discretionary, with the will indicating the shares should be distributed once the grandchildren reach 25. The youngest one is 17. Is there any way around this?

FelixC



Thanks for mentioning this but, unfortunately or even fortunately, I knew nothing of it. I imagine we'll be receiving similar from our brokers, eventually.

As you'll have seen, it would appear to relate to MiFID II and the latest from the FCA appears to be here:

MiFID II – Legal Entity Identifier (LEI) update
https://www.fca.org.uk/markets/mifid-ii ... lei-update

Extract We communicated in CP15/43 its expectation that MiFID investment firms (excluding collective portfolio management investment firms but including authorised credit institutions), operators of trading venues and UK branches of third country investment firms must comply with transaction reporting obligations.

You'll probably have also seen this from the London Stock Exchange which confirms the fees you mention

https://www.lseg.com/LEI

Hopefully someone with knowledge of this area will arrive. The only way out of it I can think of immediately is to amend the Trust Deed to provide for early closure. That clearly isn't something you'd want to do, especially given the age of the youngest, and would cost in itself.

Yet another burden, along with the Register of Trusts I mentioned over at Taxes.

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Re: LEI & Discretionary trust & share dealing

#84068

Postby Laughton » September 27th, 2017, 10:03 pm

I'd also received the same message from HL (and since then from AJ Bell/Youinvest) in respect of a SSAS (small self administered pension scheme) I have. I mentioned this on another thread. Be interesting to know if this might also apply to SIPS - which would would presumably affect many more people.

Ridiculous really as we had to provide considerable documentation proving status of scheme and who the professional administrators and beneficiaries are before we could open the accounts.

It's just another way for the powers that be to get more of our money.

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Re: LEI & Discretionary trust & share dealing

#84157

Postby moorfield » September 28th, 2017, 11:34 am

felixcanis wrote:Just had an e-mail from HL indicating the Will trust run by my OH needs to get a LEI (Legal Entity Identifier) from the LSE by Jan 2018, or the trust won't be able to perform any more share transactions.

The fees for getting a LEI are £115+VAT with an annual maintenance fee of £70+VAT. That's a lot of money for a Will Trust set up to give specific shares to a group of grandchildren...

The trust is discretionary, with the will indicating the shares should be distributed once the grandchildren reach 25. The youngest one is 17. Is there any way around this?

FelixC



Cross posting from: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=7307&p=84155#p84155

This is poor customer advice, and worthy of a complaint IMO.

Under the MIFID2 directive HL, and possibly your SSAS, bear the obligation to undertake transaction reporting including LEIs to the market authority, not you.

Cheers
M

(Long time sufferer of implementing EMIR + MIFID reporting on various IT systems)

felixcanis
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Re: LEI & Discretionary trust & share dealing

#84824

Postby felixcanis » September 30th, 2017, 9:59 pm

We have chased HL about this - and have been told that if, after the deadline, the only transactions are the distributions of the existing shares to the grandchildren (as & when they are of age) then we don't need an LEI. This has been documented by HL against the account. We can only hope that this is OK when the time comes.

Bit of a bother for my OH as we don't have any kids, so he is sorting out all the trust taxation and other related stuff for his nieces and nephew... Even more complications in the future as 2 of the children live in the US now & one has recently married a US citizen - I fear this means we may have to deal with the dreaded IRS. Not sure my father-in-law understood what would be involved when he had the idea to leave a specific shareholding to his young grandchildren.

FelixC

felixcanis
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Re: LEI & Discretionary trust & share dealing

#177699

Postby felixcanis » November 1st, 2018, 10:46 pm

Update...

HL have changed their mind and informed us that the Will Trust will need a LEI. They apologised for their bad advice last year and now say they cannot change the ownership of the shares to the grandchildren without the LEI.

Based on their previous info, we had already asked HL to transfer out some of the shares as a certficate to distribute to some of the older beneficiaries. The shares were removed from the Trust account by HL, but the registrar has not sent the certificate. Now HL admits a request for the certificate was never sent.

We've been waiting for a week for them to give us info on the whereabouts of the shares. Getting less impressed with HL.

FelixC

Howyoudoin
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Re: LEI & Discretionary trust & share dealing

#177700

Postby Howyoudoin » November 1st, 2018, 10:53 pm

Shortened reply.

1) You need an LEI

2) HL are rubbish


HYD

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Re: LEI & Discretionary trust & share dealing

#177765

Postby Laughton » November 2nd, 2018, 11:12 am

Obtaining an LEI fairly straightforward (in my very limited experience of having only applied for one). Direct application to the LSE. But there is a cost involved and an annual renewal cost too.

syrio
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Re: LEI & Discretionary trust & share dealing

#177861

Postby syrio » November 2nd, 2018, 5:24 pm

The LSE fees for LEIs are extortionate. Try another LEI provider.

I got my LEI from the LSE, but I'll be looking into transferring it to another provider this year.

The cheapest provider seems to be 33 euros to register and 25 euros to renew.

https://lei.codes/

felixcanis
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Re: LEI & Discretionary trust & share dealing

#177875

Postby felixcanis » November 2nd, 2018, 6:00 pm

syrio wrote:The LSE fees for LEIs are extortionate. Try another LEI provider.

I got my LEI from the LSE, but I'll be looking into transferring it to another provider this year.

The cheapest provider seems to be 33 euros to register and 25 euros to renew.

https://lei.codes/


Thanks for that, but I've looked at a few cheaper providers and they seem to be aimed at organisations - a number indicate they won't deal with trusts and my OH is a trustee for a Will Trust.

We'll probably go with the LSE as it should be simpler and we hope to wrap everything up within the first year so there should be no renewals.
It's a lot of faffing about for a very small 'entity' such as this trust.

FelixC

Cookie
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Re: LEI & Discretionary trust & share dealing

#177897

Postby Cookie » November 2nd, 2018, 9:09 pm

felixcanis wrote:
syrio wrote:The LSE fees for LEIs are extortionate. Try another LEI provider.

I got my LEI from the LSE, but I'll be looking into transferring it to another provider this year.

The cheapest provider seems to be 33 euros to register and 25 euros to renew.

https://lei.codes/


Thanks for that, but I've looked at a few cheaper providers and they seem to be aimed at organisations - a number indicate they won't deal with trusts and my OH is a trustee for a Will Trust.

We'll probably go with the LSE as it should be simpler and we hope to wrap everything up within the first year so there should be no renewals.
It's a lot of faffing about for a very small 'entity' such as this trust.

FelixC


Bloomberg seemed reasonable priced from a well known company

You may not have to renew, unless asked ;) (though not done this yet myself so cant confirm that)

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Re: LEI & Discretionary trust & share dealing

#198181

Postby Parky » February 1st, 2019, 2:13 pm

I had to obtain an LEI to trade in my Trust account last year, and now it's coming up to renewal time. Apparently, if you do not renew, the LEI becomes "lapsed", but is still valid. I am planning to let my LEI lapse when the renewal date comes round and wait to see if the platform provider checks the validity every time I trade. Has anyone had experience of a share platform refusing to trade because your LEI has "lapsed"?

syrio
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Re: LEI & Discretionary trust & share dealing

#198412

Postby syrio » February 2nd, 2019, 4:07 pm

I'd be interested to hear if anyone gets away with not renewing their LEI.

I changed my LEI provider from the LSE to Bloomberg this year who were considerably cheaper. The process was straightforward. I would have tried the cheapest LEI provider (Takasbank), but I couldn't get their website to load.

Cookie
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Re: LEI & Discretionary trust & share dealing

#198423

Postby Cookie » February 2nd, 2019, 5:06 pm

Im applying to Hargreaves and Lansdown. Called yesterday and they said a company account was available. I asked about LEI and he said he couldnt see it on the form. He checked and came back saying that I will need a LEI to deal in equities. Might fill out forms and see how far I can get without one

I have gone with H&L for share dealing as Interactive Investor has a £90 annual fee and although it can be used as a dealing credit, I dont think I will be trading that much, preferring a buy and hold strategy

H&L normal share dealing charge is £12, compared to III £10, but have a £1.50 RS account in the same way III have it for £1
H&L RS is limited to a smaller number of ETFs, FTSE 350 shares and ITs. But there is some world and S&P 500 trackers I would use. The list is here, but trying to do this form my personal share dealing account, there are more than is on this list
https://www.hl.co.uk/investment-service ... ar-savings

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Re: LEI & Discretionary trust & share dealing

#199979

Postby PinkDalek » February 8th, 2019, 5:05 pm

Parky wrote:I had to obtain an LEI to trade in my Trust account last year, and now it's coming up to renewal time. Apparently, if you do not renew, the LEI becomes "lapsed", but is still valid. I am planning to let my LEI lapse when the renewal date comes round and wait to see if the platform provider checks the validity every time I trade. Has anyone had experience of a share platform refusing to trade because your LEI has "lapsed"?


I've just spent the last few hours completing my first LEI registration for a trust. I ended up using https://www.lseg.com/LEI despite the £115 fee plus VAT.

Anyway, I asked the help team your question. They suggested that although the number remains valid, as you say, the platform would be unable to confirm it is valid if not renewed. I suppose they would say that though and I cannot disprove without testing it!

Parky
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Re: LEI & Discretionary trust & share dealing

#207440

Postby Parky » March 13th, 2019, 3:21 pm

Have just made my first trade on a Trust account with a "lapsed" LEI. Checking that the LEI is up-to-date is obviously not tied into the on-line trading system. I doubt if any of the platforms have bothered to do that.

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Re: LEI & Discretionary trust & share dealing

#207443

Postby Cookie » March 13th, 2019, 3:28 pm

Parky wrote:Have just made my first trade on a Trust account with a "lapsed" LEI. Checking that the LEI is up-to-date is obviously not tied into the on-line trading system. I doubt if any of the platforms have bothered to do that.


Which platform?

PinkDalek
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Re: LEI & Discretionary trust & share dealing

#244277

Postby PinkDalek » August 14th, 2019, 3:36 pm

PinkDalek wrote:I've just spent the last few hours completing my first LEI registration for a trust. I ended up using https://www.lseg.com/LEI despite the £115 fee plus VAT.


Replying to self but I've this minute received an email stating :

We are writing to inform you of the changes we are making to the LEI pricing which will be effective from 19 August 2019.

London Stock Exchange will reduce the cost for the issuance for new LEI requests from £115 to £90. The cost for LEI renewal submissions will also be reduced from £70 to £65. Both fees are inclusive of the GLEIF LEI Licence Fee and subject to VAT charges.

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Re: LEI & Discretionary trust & share dealing

#244469

Postby Gan020 » August 15th, 2019, 11:28 am

I renewed mine one day before getting the email saying they are dropping the prices.

Still any drop is helpful and I guess now it's just about maintaining a database the fees will continue to drop year on year.

Next year I will for the fee drop before renewing.


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