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Alliance Trust Savings taken over by Interactive Investor

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Chrysalis
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Alliance Trust Savings taken over by Interactive Investor

#175491

Postby Chrysalis » October 22nd, 2018, 12:21 pm

http://www.alliancetrustsavings.co.uk/i ... vings.html


I will start a new thread for my (many) questions for II account holders!

Dod101
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Re: Alliance Trust Savings taken over by Interactive Investor

#175495

Postby Dod101 » October 22nd, 2018, 12:41 pm

B***dy hell. All my ISA holdings will now be with II. That is very unsatisfactory I must say. I will be looking for another provider to take half soonest, preferably one with a flat fee.

Dod

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Re: Alliance Trust Savings taken over by Interactive Investor

#175500

Postby ADrunkenMarcus » October 22nd, 2018, 12:51 pm

Dod101 wrote:B***dy hell. All my ISA holdings will now be with II.


Is II a decent platform? Is it well laid out? Are you generally satisfied?

I pay £252 fixed with ATS's SIPP each year (deducted monthly). ATS's fixed charge has risen dramatically over recent years, even if they did allow for some trades being included at no extra charge. II's fixed fee is apparently £22.50 a quarter or £90, so I save £162 a year on the fixed fee element.

The trade fees at II don't look much different - 1p in most cases - but I won't have the ATS discount for long term customers, I assume. I don't trade much anyway.

We'll see what happens and whether II change their existing fees / offer.

Best wishes

Mark.

Dod101
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Re: Alliance Trust Savings taken over by Interactive Investor

#175503

Postby Dod101 » October 22nd, 2018, 1:06 pm

Yes I like II's site. It is in fact unchanged from what it was when it was TD Investing when I first encountered them. I have a SIPP and an ISA with ATS and some years ago started putting new money into a new ISA (mostly selling certificated stuff) with TDInvesting, ironically to reduce the concentration with ATS. The ISA has a flat quarterly charge of £22.50 with some free deals. The SIPP charges I have not so far looked at.

I am though really annoyed at this although it could I suppose be worse. At least as they say it is a flat charge platform like ATS. Come to think of it, I too was on their biggest discount as a long standing customer of ATS.

Dod

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Re: Alliance Trust Savings taken over by Interactive Investor

#175517

Postby dspp » October 22nd, 2018, 1:53 pm

I'm happy with ii.

(Dod, you could try HSBC if you don't want to be over-concentrated. Their fees are the same as ii, and if you have >£100k with them you get the free travel insurance. Because the fees were the same I thought it might be a white-label version of the ii platform, but I was told that is not the case. Note HSBC don't support SIPPS, only ISAs and trading accts.)

regards, dspp

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Re: Alliance Trust Savings taken over by Interactive Investor

#175552

Postby Alaric » October 22nd, 2018, 4:09 pm

Dod101 wrote: The ISA has a flat quarterly charge of £22.50 with some free deals. The SIPP charges I have not so far looked at.


If you already have an ISA or dealing account with them, it's £ 100 a year plus VAT. Marginally annoyingly they take it (£ 120) as an annual payment, so if it's nearly due, you may have to think about how much liquidity to retain if going fully invested.

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Re: Alliance Trust Savings taken over by Interactive Investor

#175561

Postby Dod101 » October 22nd, 2018, 4:32 pm

Thanks Alaric. That is a lot less than Alliance by the sound of it.

Dod

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Re: Alliance Trust Savings taken over by Interactive Investor

#175563

Postby Dod101 » October 22nd, 2018, 4:34 pm

dspp wrote:I'm happy with ii.

(Dod, you could try HSBC if you don't want to be over-concentrated. Their fees are the same as ii, and if you have >£100k with them you get the free travel insurance. Because the fees were the same I thought it might be a white-label version of the ii platform, but I was told that is not the case. Note HSBC don't support SIPPS, only ISAs and trading accts.)

regards, dspp


Thanks I had not realised that. I am already a Premier customer so it will be worth my while to take a look at that site. Alas, I no longer qualify for free travel insurance.

Dod

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Re: Alliance Trust Savings taken over by Interactive Investor

#175571

Postby Dod101 » October 22nd, 2018, 5:17 pm

I had forgotten why I gave up on HSBC's InvestDirect service. I had a cash ISA with them at one time. Trying to get any sense from them is like wading through treacle. I think I will leave them well alone. They are as a bank but as for investing, they are just hopeless in my experience. I end up asking them why they cannot answer my queries without passing me on to yet someone else and in the end just give up.

Dod

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Re: Alliance Trust Savings taken over by Interactive Investor

#175663

Postby SoBo65 » October 23rd, 2018, 6:36 am

What concerns me the most is that suddenly I have a third of my net worth with a company I know little about, apart from being owned by a private equity funded rather than a multi billion pound investment trust.....

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Re: Alliance Trust Savings taken over by Interactive Investor

#175676

Postby SoBo65 » October 23rd, 2018, 7:58 am

Just checked the latest accounts for Interactive Investors Ltd - reg no 4752535 to 31.12.17 which show accumulated losses of £8m down from £19m in PY and total equity (net worth) of £95m up from £7m. This compares to Alliance
Trust with total equity/NW of £2.7 BILLION, bit of a difference.......

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Re: Alliance Trust Savings taken over by Interactive Investor

#175773

Postby Lootman » October 23rd, 2018, 3:06 pm

SoBo65 wrote:Just checked the latest accounts for Interactive Investors Ltd - reg no 4752535 to 31.12.17 which show accumulated losses of £8m down from £19m in PY and total equity (net worth) of £95m up from £7m. This compares to Alliance Trust with total equity/NW of £2.7 BILLION, bit of a difference.......

Yes, but does that make any differences in practice? If ATS had a total failure then:

1) Your share positions would be ring-fenced and held by an external custodian, and
2) You don't have any rights to the rest of the assets of Alliance Trust in the event of a failure, since those assets belong to others, and
3) You can claim against the government compensation scheme if you are not made whole.

Likewise with ii. So whilst it might feel better to be with, say, HSBC, than a private entity, I'm not sure it makes much difference. After all both Fidelity and Vanguard are private entities - do you avoid them? Whilst Lehman was public and could not save itself or its shareholders.

And of course the government protection scheme applies equally in both cases.

It's not something I give much thought to, but I'd generally consider my value at risk to be cash balances held with my broker, and I try and keep those to a minimum anyway.

I think the main argument for splitting an account into two different brokers is that it is unlikely that both will fail at the same time. So you'd have access to some of your funds whilst the mess is cleared up. But that is a tactical and timing issue, rather than the facing of a loss of value.

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Re: Alliance Trust Savings taken over by Interactive Investor

#175823

Postby Dod101 » October 23rd, 2018, 5:52 pm

SoBo65 wrote:Just checked the latest accounts for Interactive Investors Ltd - reg no 4752535 to 31.12.17 which show accumulated losses of £8m down from £19m in PY and total equity (net worth) of £95m up from £7m. This compares to Alliance
Trust with total equity/NW of £2.7 BILLION, bit of a difference.......


But this comparison is totally spurious. You should be looking at the accounts for Alliance Trust Savings Ltd not the parent investment trust (or the accounts for JC Flower which I think is the parent of Interactive Investors Ltd). What I think is relevant is that I am quite sure that the Alliance Trust would stand behind ATS (come what may) as it has done for the last 15 or so loss making years. I do not know whether that would be the case with J C Flowers.

Dod

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Re: Alliance Trust Savings taken over by Interactive Investor

#175826

Postby SoBo65 » October 23rd, 2018, 5:59 pm

I think it was a reasonable assumption that Alliance Trust would have stood behind ATS. I will give serious thought about transferring my SIPP, but I will leave my ISA with III. My Personal Assets Trust ISA with ATS will no doubt no longer be fee free once transferred.....

Julian
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Re: Alliance Trust Savings taken over by Interactive Investor

#179140

Postby Julian » November 9th, 2018, 10:39 am

Sigh! I only just found out about this takeover today from another thread on this site. I have some of the same concerns as Dod. ii have done an uncanny job of grabbing a big slice of my investments. My investments are currently spread across 6 brokers, none of which was ii until fairly recently. ii took over TD Direct which was my biggest account and with this ATS takeover it will be grabbing my second biggest account as well. Assuming I don't do anything about it my ii holdings will soon be about 2.5x the size of my next biggest broker account and ii is the organisation I have the least faith in, not because I know or suspect anything bad about them but simply because my other brokers are much bigger gorillas in the finance world - HSBC, HBOS and Hargreaves Lansdown (which was a Barclays account before I was pretty much forced out due to a change in fee structure). My final broker is AJBell but it's my smallest holding so I'm not too worried that it is a smaller operation.

This is the 6th broker transfer I've experienced since I started investing in 2001 and is almost enough to start making me think again about certificating everything but I'm not sure I want all the dividend paperwork. I suppose that with the abolition of dividend tax credits dividend record keeping is slightly less onerous but still more hassle than getting a single consolidated tax certificate from a broker at the end of each year.

At least ii have no transfer-out charges so there's no deadline to take advantage of any waiving of transfer-out fees that most other brokers I've been in this situation with have offered when they sell-out to someone else or make a radical change to their fees. I think I'll just tuck this away in the "I could do without this" draw and ignore it until after my holdings are with iii and decide what to do then.

- Julian

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Re: Alliance Trust Savings taken over by Interactive Investor

#179209

Postby scrumpyjack » November 9th, 2018, 3:07 pm

I had been with TD for many many years but got out and transferred to HL when it was announced that II were taking them over. Being backed by a robust Canadian Bank seemed far more reassuring to me than some private equity outfit, however large JC Flowers are.

I am not completely reassured by the claims that you are protected by trustees etc as that is not a complete protection where there is fraud. The Beaufort fiasco reinforced those prejudices.

HL seem big enough and profitable enough to be very secure. I have taken the view that the convenience of having it all with HL outweighs the benefits of having accounts with multiple brokers, as I used to do. That wouldn't really be practical for me anyway.

I have always found HL to be completely professional and not trying to push me in any direction. I just ignore their marketing bumf and steer clear of all funds as I have always preferred Investment Trusts and ETFs, which avoid all percentage broker fees.

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Re: Alliance Trust Savings taken over by Interactive Investor

#179238

Postby Dod101 » November 9th, 2018, 4:38 pm

I am resolved to do the same as Julian; wait until everything has moved and then probably place about 2/3rds of my ISA and SIPP with HSBC. I also have a few certificated holdings and I think I will probably keep them that way.

Dod

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Re: Alliance Trust Savings taken over by Interactive Investor

#179252

Postby Alaric » November 9th, 2018, 5:19 pm

Julian wrote:I suppose that with the abolition of dividend tax credits dividend record keeping is slightly less onerous but still more hassle than getting a single consolidated tax certificate from a broker at the end of each year.


Under the old regime, provided you were a basic rate taxpayer, it didn't really matter if you overlooked the odd dividend or two as no additional tax would be payable. That's not the case now if your dividend income goes above £ 2,000, particularly as HMRC are claiming an ability to know how much you have received in dividends.

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Re: Alliance Trust Savings taken over by Interactive Investor

#179271

Postby Lootman » November 9th, 2018, 6:45 pm

Alaric wrote: HMRC are claiming an ability to know how much you have received in dividends.

It would be trivial for brokers to provide the same information to HMRC that is on a consolidated tax certificate. If that does not happen already it probably should.

It would not surprise me in the future if HMRC asked brokers to provide information of cost basis and sales proceeds as well.

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Re: Alliance Trust Savings taken over by Interactive Investor

#179303

Postby XFool » November 9th, 2018, 11:13 pm

Julian wrote:I suppose that with the abolition of dividend tax credits dividend record keeping is slightly less onerous...

Really don't know how you come to that conclusion.


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