Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to eyeball08,Wondergirly,bofh,johnstevens77,Bhoddhisatva, for Donating to support the site

Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

The home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
Forum rules
This is the home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18885
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 636 times
Been thanked: 6651 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#326166

Postby Lootman » July 14th, 2020, 7:22 pm

Bouleversee wrote:Aren't they now working towards taking your temperature and if OK you don't need to quarantine? Hope so for your sake. Can you quarantine in your own home? I presume so, in which case it will be no different from the self-shielding people like me have been doing for 4 months or more.

The temperature check is for current symptoms but won't catch someone who is infectious but not showing symptoms. Gatwick Airport is going to experiment with tests for arriving passengers and hope for a 24 hour turnaround. If that clears an incoming passenger then they won't need to quarantine for the rest of the 14 day period.

You can quarantine anywhere that you designate. You just have to give them an address, phone number and details of your primary contact.

swill453
Lemon Half
Posts: 7982
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 6:11 pm
Has thanked: 987 times
Been thanked: 3656 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#326167

Postby swill453 » July 14th, 2020, 7:24 pm

Bouleversee wrote:Aren't they now working towards taking your temperature and if OK you don't need to quarantine?

No I haven't seen any proposal for that. The point of the quarantine is that the incubation period for Covid 19 can be over a week, so testing people in the airport as they arrive back is fairly pointless.

I'm going to France soon, the current requirement is to fill in an affidavit asserting "I hereby certify that I do not have any symptoms of COVID‐19" on arrival. Not really sure of the point to be honest.

Scott.

swill453
Lemon Half
Posts: 7982
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 6:11 pm
Has thanked: 987 times
Been thanked: 3656 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#326170

Postby swill453 » July 14th, 2020, 7:26 pm

Lootman wrote:The temperature check is for current symptoms but won't catch someone who is infectious but not showing symptoms. Gatwick Airport is going to experiment with tests for arriving passengers and hope for a 24 hour turnaround. If that clears an incoming passenger then they won't need to quarantine for the rest of the 14 day period.

Really? What about those who have the virus but only develop Covid 10 days later?

Scott.

Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18885
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 636 times
Been thanked: 6651 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#326173

Postby Lootman » July 14th, 2020, 7:30 pm

swill453 wrote:
Lootman wrote:The temperature check is for current symptoms but won't catch someone who is infectious but not showing symptoms. Gatwick Airport is going to experiment with tests for arriving passengers and hope for a 24 hour turnaround. If that clears an incoming passenger then they won't need to quarantine for the rest of the 14 day period.

Really? What about those who have the virus but only develop Covid 10 days later?

Scott.

I am no expert in this so will not pretend to be, but here is my source:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53116372

It doesn't actually mention Gatwick but I read somewhere else it would be there as it already has Covid testing capability.

Bouleversee
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4654
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 5:01 pm
Has thanked: 1195 times
Been thanked: 903 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#326178

Postby Bouleversee » July 14th, 2020, 7:49 pm

Lootman wrote:
Bouleversee wrote:Aren't they now working towards taking your temperature and if OK you don't need to quarantine? Hope so for your sake. Can you quarantine in your own home? I presume so, in which case it will be no different from the self-shielding people like me have been doing for 4 months or more.

The temperature check is for current symptoms but won't catch someone who is infectious but not showing symptoms. Gatwick Airport is going to experiment with tests for arriving passengers and hope for a 24 hour turnaround. If that clears an incoming passenger then they won't need to quarantine for the rest of the 14 day period.

You can quarantine anywhere that you designate. You just have to give them an address, phone number and details of your primary contact.


That must be what I was thinking of. I don't always catch every word when I am getting the breakfast or whatever but I knew there was an update on Boris's quarantine plan which was very offputting.

swill453
Lemon Half
Posts: 7982
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 6:11 pm
Has thanked: 987 times
Been thanked: 3656 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#326182

Postby swill453 » July 14th, 2020, 7:54 pm

Lootman wrote:I am no expert in this so will not pretend to be, but here is my source:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53116372

It doesn't actually mention Gatwick but I read somewhere else it would be there as it already has Covid testing capability.

Quite a bit of wishful thinking there I think:

"If they [the passenger] were Covid-negative we would ask the government to consider them to be free from the quarantine"

"However ministers have yet to confirm people who receive a "negative" result won't have to self-isolate for the remainder of their two weeks."

Article is dated June 20th, haven't really heard much recently about airport testing.

Scott.

Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18885
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 636 times
Been thanked: 6651 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#326184

Postby Lootman » July 14th, 2020, 8:01 pm

swill453 wrote:
Lootman wrote:I am no expert in this so will not pretend to be, but here is my source:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53116372

It doesn't actually mention Gatwick but I read somewhere else it would be there as it already has Covid testing capability.

Quite a bit of wishful thinking there I think:

"If they [the passenger] were Covid-negative we would ask the government to consider them to be free from the quarantine"

"However ministers have yet to confirm people who receive a "negative" result won't have to self-isolate for the remainder of their two weeks."

Article is dated June 20th, haven't really heard much recently about airport testing.

I'd certainly agree that the situation is very fluid. I read more recently that there might be a new Covid test with a 15 minute turnaround time. If so that might transform the situation in terms of attending stadiums, theatres and so on, as well as getting on and off planes.

As far as the 14 day self-quarantine period is concerned, what I have read so far is that it is barely being enforced and that not a single fine has been issued for breaching it. The more stringent provisions of it as originally mooted (could not leave the location at all, cannot be a hotel, cannot use public transport) have all been removed, so I question its efficacy.

Anyway I have a few more weeks before I have to worry about it, and so will wait and see.

Bouleversee
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4654
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 5:01 pm
Has thanked: 1195 times
Been thanked: 903 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#326186

Postby Bouleversee » July 14th, 2020, 8:09 pm

I really can't see why you should not be able to be met at the airport by a member of your family and driven home (or drive yourself if you had left your car at the airport) and self-isolate there till a test showed you were negative, or otherwise. Everything is so half-baked.

swill453
Lemon Half
Posts: 7982
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 6:11 pm
Has thanked: 987 times
Been thanked: 3656 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#326187

Postby swill453 » July 14th, 2020, 8:16 pm

Bouleversee wrote:I really can't see why you should not be able to be met at the airport by a member of your family and driven home (or drive yourself if you had left your car at the airport) and self-isolate there till a test showed you were negative, or otherwise.

The problem with your suggestion is that it's eminently possible to get a negative test result, then a few days later for the disease to manifest itself.
Everything is so half-baked.

Lots of this is half-baked, but assuming someone is free from the virus because they've tested negative is such, also.

Scott.

Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18885
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 636 times
Been thanked: 6651 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#326189

Postby Lootman » July 14th, 2020, 8:22 pm

swill453 wrote:
Bouleversee wrote:I really can't see why you should not be able to be met at the airport by a member of your family and driven home (or drive yourself if you had left your car at the airport) and self-isolate there till a test showed you were negative, or otherwise.

The problem with your suggestion is that it's eminently possible to get a negative test result, then a few days later for the disease to manifest itself.
Everything is so half-baked.

Lots of this is half-baked, but assuming someone is free from the virus because they've tested negative is such, also.

I do not understand that at all. If the validity of a test expires one minute after the test is administered then what is the point of it at all?

Surely the point of a test for the virus, rather than a test for its symptoms, is that its results are good for at least 14 days, absent any later infection anyway. So you are free to move about in public.

Or to put it another way, how often should someone be tested to ensure an ongoing lack of risk of infecting others? Every day?

swill453
Lemon Half
Posts: 7982
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 6:11 pm
Has thanked: 987 times
Been thanked: 3656 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#326190

Postby swill453 » July 14th, 2020, 8:39 pm

Lootman wrote:
swill453 wrote:Lots of this is half-baked, but assuming someone is free from the virus because they've tested negative is such, also.

I do not understand that at all. If the validity of a test expires one minute after the test is administered then what is the point of it at all?

Surely the point of a test for the virus, rather than a test for its symptoms, is that its results are good for at least 14 days, absent any later infection anyway. So you are free to move about in public.

I can't find the government chapter and verse on this, but Googling found this:
Researchers found that testing people for SARS-CoV-2 -- the virus that causes COVID-19 -- too early in the course of infection is likely to result in a false negative test, even though they may eventually test positive for the virus.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 094112.htm

Or this:
The test may overlook the small but growing amounts of virus in someone who has not yet developed symptoms, who could still go on to spread COVID-19 without knowing it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/arc ... ad/613246/

Scott.

gryffron
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3635
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:00 am
Has thanked: 556 times
Been thanked: 1611 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#326195

Postby gryffron » July 14th, 2020, 9:13 pm

Lootman wrote:Gatwick Airport is going to experiment with tests for arriving passengers and hope for a 24 hour turnaround. If that clears an incoming passenger then they won't need to quarantine for the rest of the 14 day period.

Given that private testing costs £200-£300. I don't see how that's going to be viable. Even allowing for bulk discount the test kits themselves are aiui >£100. Are they going to offer it as a costed option? Or simply add it to your airfare?

Gryff

Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18885
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 636 times
Been thanked: 6651 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#326197

Postby Lootman » July 14th, 2020, 9:17 pm

gryffron wrote:
Lootman wrote:Gatwick Airport is going to experiment with tests for arriving passengers and hope for a 24 hour turnaround. If that clears an incoming passenger then they won't need to quarantine for the rest of the 14 day period.

Given that private testing costs £200-£300. I don't see how that's going to be viable. Even allowing for bulk discount the test kits themselves are aiui >£100. Are they going to offer it as a costed option? Or simply add it to your airfare?

The number I saw was £140.

If the self-quarantine was being strictly enforced and taking this test got me out of it then I might easily consider it worth the money.

Since it not being enforced in any meaningful way, the self-quarantine is essentially a voluntary thing. Having toyed with returning via a third country I have decided to just complete the form, nominate an address and then make a judgement at the time as to how literally I will follow the guidance.

The irony is that London has worse infection rates than where I will be staying overseas.

Bouleversee
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4654
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 5:01 pm
Has thanked: 1195 times
Been thanked: 903 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#326202

Postby Bouleversee » July 14th, 2020, 9:42 pm

swill453 -

I read daily reports on the progress of coronavirus research from2 sources but I hadn't seen those two. If that is definitely true, I agree that testing before manifestation of symptoms is pointless until such time as we can get a better test. However, I am struggling to make sense of the following:

"The researchers estimated that those tested with SARS-CoV-2 in the four days after infection were 67% more likely to test negative, even if they had the virus. When the average patient began displaying symptoms of the virus, the false-negative rate was 38%. The test performed best eight days after infection (on average, three days after symptom onset), but even then had a false negative rate of 20%, meaning one in five people who had the virus had a negative test result." Are we to assume that these people were deliberately infected with the virus (brave souls!)? Otherwise, how would anyone know when they had been infected if tests were negative and they were asymptomatic.

Anyway, to be on the safe side, it would seem sensible that travellers from the countries specified should get themselves home (or wherever) pdq and self-isolate for the requisite period. Having said that, I am aware that some research, carried out by students, is nonsense. Remember when we were told eggs were bad for us? I could quote a research questionnaire sent to my late husband some time after he had had most of his sacrum resected, but it is rather too much information. Suffice it to say that had he answered the questions it would have made a nonsense of the research and when I queried it I was told it had been sent in error and we received an apology.

If negative tests can't be relied on, it's no wonder that the incoming holiday travel trade has died a death. Who would come here for a holiday knowing that they would be locked in (where?) for a fortnight?

tjh290633
Lemon Half
Posts: 8267
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:20 am
Has thanked: 919 times
Been thanked: 4130 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#326211

Postby tjh290633 » July 14th, 2020, 10:41 pm

I see that there is a spike in cases in Crawley. That includes Gatwick, so is there any connection? If arrivals are being tested, that could explain the spike. However Crawley also has an above average level of Asian families, many of whom work in the airport. There could be a connection. There seems to be a number in health related occupations, and the young woman who often does my eye inspections comes from Crawley, having a sub-continent heritage. On the other hand, my dentist in Crawley is Persian and the hygienist is of Indian descent.

TJH

Mike4
Lemon Half
Posts: 7180
Joined: November 24th, 2016, 3:29 am
Has thanked: 1658 times
Been thanked: 3815 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#326218

Postby Mike4 » July 14th, 2020, 11:53 pm

tjh290633 wrote:I see that there is a spike in cases in Crawley.

Where are you seeing this information please?

I was only musing today about how I need to start tracking where hotspots are (so I can avoid them - I travel a lot for work). I'm wondering where I can find this information rather than just relying on news reports which naturally and unreliably focus on only one at a time.

Thanks.

tjh290633
Lemon Half
Posts: 8267
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:20 am
Has thanked: 919 times
Been thanked: 4130 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#326269

Postby tjh290633 » July 15th, 2020, 10:27 am

Mike4 wrote:
tjh290633 wrote:I see that there is a spike in cases in Crawley.

Where are you seeing this information please?

I was only musing today about how I need to start tracking where hotspots are (so I can avoid them - I travel a lot for work). I'm wondering where I can find this information rather than just relying on news reports which naturally and unreliably focus on only one at a time.

Thanks.

Local news via Google. I got a notification about it.

TJH

Mike4
Lemon Half
Posts: 7180
Joined: November 24th, 2016, 3:29 am
Has thanked: 1658 times
Been thanked: 3815 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#326272

Postby Mike4 » July 15th, 2020, 10:34 am

tjh290633 wrote:
Mike4 wrote:
tjh290633 wrote:I see that there is a spike in cases in Crawley.

Where are you seeing this information please?

I was only musing today about how I need to start tracking where hotspots are (so I can avoid them - I travel a lot for work). I'm wondering where I can find this information rather than just relying on news reports which naturally and unreliably focus on only one at a time.

Thanks.

Local news via Google. I got a notification about it.

TJH

Oh I see. Thanks.

I am trying to find a source of data that shows infection rates by area, so I can browse the town or city a potential customer is from before travelling to them. This info seem to be withheld by the government now, unless someone knows otherwise!

swill453
Lemon Half
Posts: 7982
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 6:11 pm
Has thanked: 987 times
Been thanked: 3656 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#326280

Postby swill453 » July 15th, 2020, 10:47 am

Mike4 wrote:I am trying to find a source of data that shows infection rates by area, so I can browse the town or city a potential customer is from before travelling to them. This info seem to be withheld by the government now, unless someone knows otherwise!

If you go here https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/ and download the CSV spreadsheet, you can see daily cases narrowed down as far as lower tier local authority.

Scott.

Itsallaguess
Lemon Half
Posts: 9129
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 1:16 pm
Has thanked: 4140 times
Been thanked: 10025 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#326285

Postby Itsallaguess » July 15th, 2020, 11:08 am

swill453 wrote:
Mike4 wrote:
I am trying to find a source of data that shows infection rates by area, so I can browse the town or city a potential customer is from before travelling to them. This info seem to be withheld by the government now, unless someone knows otherwise!


If you go here https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/ and download the CSV spreadsheet, you can see daily cases narrowed down as far as lower tier local authority.


And from that link above, the direct CSV-data link below can be used to open the latest 'England cases' CSV file into Excel or similar -

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/downloads/csv/coronavirus-cases_latest.csv

Note that in the above CSV data, there is the following data for today and historical days -

Nation (England)
Region (South West / West Midlands etc..)
Upper Tier Local Authority (County level)
Lower Tier Local Authority (Town level)

Cheers,

Itsallaguess


Return to “Coronavirus Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 28 guests