PO Scandal

[Tedx]

Vennels to hand back her CBE

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-poli ... type=share

[Beerpig]

Its right that she should hand it back.
What about the £5m plus she earned while she was there?

[XFool]

Post Office sacked me over 2003 Horizon warning, IT expert says

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-67921974

An IT expert has criticised the Post Office for ignoring his report which found "concerning discrepancies" in its software more than 20 years ago.

"Jason Coyne, who worked for Preston-based Best Practice Plc at the time, was instructed to examine the computer system called Horizon in 2003.

He said he notified the Post Office the data was "unreliable" but he was ignored, sacked then discredited."

[RockRabbit]

Vennels to hand back her CBE

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-poli ... type=share

Please, do not forget that this CBE was only granted in 2019, when the post office scandal was already known about. Politicians didn't give a fig about the miscarriage of justice then and only 'care' now because there might be a few votes in it.

Granted for 'services to the 'post office'!

https://www.gov.uk/government/people/paula-vennells

[Tedx]

Vennels to hand back her CBE

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-poli ... type=share

Please, do not forget that this CBE was only granted in 2019, when the post office scandal was already known about. Politicians didn't give a fig about the miscarriage of justice then and only 'care' now because there might be a few votes in it.

Granted for 'services to the 'post office'!

https://www.gov.uk/government/people/paula-vennells

Without a doubt.

Indeed, it's remarkable how quickly they have moved on this. Same with those XL Bully dogs v say, knife crime (See Idris Elba's comments the other day)

This is a sign of a government scrabbling about for vote winning bandwagons to jump on.

[Leothebear]

Firstly there should be a blanket payment for the sub postmasters, if the odd case is undeserving, too bad. Money awarded there will be more than compenstated by shortening the, so far, endless enquiry.

Secondly the senior management at the PO and Fujitsu responsible should be interrogated and charged where appropriate. Vennels handing back her CBE might be an embarrassment for her but she deserves something harsher than that. I sincerely hope all those complicit in this sordid business are now feeling genuine fear.

[servodude]

This is a sign of a government scrabbling about for vote winning bandwagons to jump on.

To be fair isn't this how the current lot became the government??

[Tedx]

This is a sign of a government scrabbling about for vote winning bandwagons to jump on.

To be fair isn't this how the current lot became the government??

Sure. And even Captain Cardboard is scared to rock the boat with new policies despite (or maybe because of) a huge forecast majority.

I think we need to install Ian Hislop as our PM. Christ, even Jeremy Clarkson would be better than what currently on offer.

[Redmires]

I think we need to install Ian Hislop as our PM. Christ, even Jeremy Clarkson would be better than what currently on offer.

Talking of Ian Hislop, I have seen little mention in the press (none actually) of the tireless campaigning of Computer Weekly, Private Eye and Nick Wallis over the last 13 or so years. No mention of Nick's BBC 'The Great Post Office Trial' podcast which was aired nearly four years ago. Top marks to ITV for getting getting this into the spotlight but it should not be news to anyone out there, especially the hand wringing politicians and civil serpents.

I remember reading with disbelief when the Post Office/Fujitsu claimed that there was no back door into the Horizon system. The only people who had access were the Postmasters. Yeah, right ! Anybody who has ever worked in IT (and there's many of them on this forum) would know that this is utter b*******t. I'll bet that the Horizon system also caused random surplus amounts to show up on the tills. The system was flawed and I cannot believe that the only errors flagged up were negative amounts.

[Nimrod103]

...nor would the CPS have any legal right to interfere with or question the Post Office's handling of these cases. The law in the UK does not operate on the basis of stuff heard on 'the grapevine'.

Only the Government could has intervened to request the CPS to take over or review these cases, but they didn't. In case you have missed it, the Government for the last 13 years has been Conservative.

That doesn't appear to be quite true:

"the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) has power under section 6(2) POA 1985 to take over private prosecutions
:
The private prosecutor is not under a duty to inform the CPS that a private prosecution has commenced. The CPS may therefore find out about a private prosecution in one of the following ways:
:
where the defendant, or a representative of the defendant, asks the CPS to take over the prosecution;
:
where the CPS learns of the private prosecution in another way, for example, from a press report."
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/private-prosecutions

It certainly helps to do a bit of reseqrch in order to contribute knowledgebly to this board.
https://order-order.com/2024/01/09/what ... e-scandal/

Ed Davey isn’t the only one under the spotlight following the Post Office Scandal – Keir Starmer is also facing questions on why he didn’t intervene when he headed up the Crown Prosecution Service from 2008-2013. Only now is Starmer calling the Post Office to lose its powers to bring private prosecutions. The scandal was first revealed in 2009 and prosecutions carried on till 2015…
Starmer’s team are saying that sub-postmasters were prosecuted by the Royal Mail in private criminal prosecutions, rather than by the CPS. Though according to the Post Office’s website, CPS did play a role in the scandal. There have been six appeals to date in which the CPS was the Respondent, not Post Office…

What Starmer didn’t do:
- Take over or end private prosecutions: The Director of Public Prosecutions of CPS “has the right to take over any private prosecution (under section 6(2) of the Prosecution of Offences Act) and either continue with the prosecution or discontinue it.”
One would have thought he would have noticed over 700 private prosecutions taking place in an industry where there had been very few before.

What Starmer did do:
- Allow CPS to act on behalf of the Post Office in a number of cases, though the exact number is unclear. One case in 2010, Regina Vs Seema Misra, is on the record where CPS prosecuted a sub-postmistress.

If the TV series Mr Bates Vs. The Post Office hadn’t come out, would Starmer have said anything about the Post Office’s prosecution powers at all?

[UncleEbenezer]

It certainly helps to do a bit of reseqrch[sic] in order to contribute knowledgebly[sic] to this board.

Indeed. There's some excellent research out there, such as this report from the journalists (Richard Brooks and Nick Wallis) who've been banging this drum for many years before most of us ever heard of it.

They helpfully name a rather extensive hall of shame, including a number of politicians. Which, in an objective, non-partisan report, inexplicably doesn't include the individual your disreputable, partisan reference seeks mendaciously to associate with it. Indeed, of the eight former ministers they name (including Davey but not Starmer), five are Conservative. Not that the kind of risibly partisan references you regularly post here would ever say that.

[UncleEbenezer]

It certainly helps to do a bit of reseqrch[sic] in order to contribute knowledgebly[sic] to this board.

Indeed. There's some excellent research out there, such as this report from the journalists (Richard Brooks and Nick Wallis) who've been banging this drum for many years before most of us ever heard of it.

They helpfully name a rather extensive hall of shame, including a number of politicians. Which, in an objective, non-partisan report, inexplicably doesn't include the individual your disreputable, partisan reference seeks mendaciously to associate with it. Indeed, of the eight former ministers they name (including Davey but not Starmer), five are Conservative. Not that the kind of risibly partisan references you regularly post here would ever say that.

Um, correction, I see they name nine former ministers. But in Gillian Keegan's case, it's merely incidental: her husband Michael was a Chairman and CEO of Fujitsu UK (until 2018 when he moved to the Cabinet Office).

[Nimrod103]

Indeed. There's some excellent research out there, such as this report from the journalists (Richard Brooks and Nick Wallis) who've been banging this drum for many years before most of us ever heard of it.

They helpfully name a rather extensive hall of shame, including a number of politicians. Which, in an objective, non-partisan report, inexplicably doesn't include the individual your disreputable, partisan reference seeks mendaciously to associate with it. Indeed, of the eight former ministers they name (including Davey but not Starmer), five are Conservative. Not that the kind of risibly partisan references you regularly post here would ever say that.

Um, correction, I see they name nine former ministers. But in Gillian Keegan's case, it's merely incidental: her husband Michael was a Chairman and CEO of Fujitsu UK (until 2018 when he moved to the Cabinet Office).

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/0 ... nvictions/

The Crown Prosecution Service is refusing to reveal Sir Keir Starmer’s role in the wrongful prosecution of subpostmasters after admitting it took at least 27 victims to court. The CPS said it was combing through historic files and had found at least 27 prosecutions it had brought over issues linked to the Horizon IT computer system.But the CPS declined to say precisely when cases were taken to court, insisting it was looking at a time frame of 20 years between 2001 and 2020. Sir Keir, the Labour Party leader, was head of the CPS between 2008 and 2013 as Director of Public Prosecutions. The CPS refused to reveal if the cases took place between the dates Sir Keir was in charge of the organisation. The Telegraph has been told the CPS has identified 27 cases it brought although the final number is likely to be 50.

Worrying that the CPS is apparently trying to hide this information about Starmer's involvement.

[UncleEbenezer]

Um, correction, I see they name nine former ministers. But in Gillian Keegan's case, it's merely incidental: her husband Michael was a Chairman and CEO of Fujitsu UK (until 2018 when he moved to the Cabinet Office).

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/0 ... nvictions/

The Crown Prosecution Service is refusing to reveal Sir Keir Starmer’s role in the wrongful prosecution of subpostmasters after admitting it took at least 27 victims to court. The CPS said it was combing through historic files and had found at least 27 prosecutions it had brought over issues linked to the Horizon IT computer system.But the CPS declined to say precisely when cases were taken to court, insisting it was looking at a time frame of 20 years between 2001 and 2020. Sir Keir, the Labour Party leader, was head of the CPS between 2008 and 2013 as Director of Public Prosecutions. The CPS refused to reveal if the cases took place between the dates Sir Keir was in charge of the organisation. The Telegraph has been told the CPS has identified 27 cases it brought although the final number is likely to be 50.

Worrying that the CPS is apparently trying to hide this information about Starmer's involvement.

Which says more about the Telegraph than about the CPS, Starmer, or the Horizon scandal.

Surely even you should know that the prosecuting authority was the Post Office itself, not the CPS. And that's before you even consider the most basic rules of politicians not getting involved with individual cases!

[Nimrod103]

Surely even you should know that the prosecuting authority was the Post Office itself, not the CPS.

I'm not sure that was the case.

And that's before you even consider the most basic rules of politicians not getting involved with individual cases!

Anyway, Starmer at the time was not a politician, he was non-partisan head of the CPS.

[RockRabbit]

A summary of the post office prosecutions (not CPS) and their appeals. Note that none of this is new (the appeals started years ago) and that the politicians are very late to the party.

https://corporate.postoffice.co.uk/en/h ... s/context/

[Lanark]

The system was flawed and I cannot believe that the only errors flagged up were negative amounts.

Yes, if these were 'random' errors you'd expect there to be as many positive as negative

File on 4 at 24:42 describes the phantom transactions
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000f5hb

You have to wonder if some insider managed to syphon millions out of the system and is now sunning themselves on some tropical island.

[elkay]

The system was flawed and I cannot believe that the only errors flagged up were negative amounts.

Yes, if these were 'random' errors you'd expect there to be as many positive as negative

File on 4 at 24:42 describes the phantom transactions
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000f5hb

You have to wonder if some insider managed to syphon millions out of the system and is now sunning themselves on some tropical island.

As someone who would have been in a position to do something like that, it suddenly seems more of a possibility than far-fetched.

[UncleEbenezer]

A summary of the post office prosecutions (not CPS) and their appeals. Note that none of this is new (the appeals started years ago) and that the politicians are very late to the party.

To be fair, some politicians tried to raise issues in the past. For example, James Arbuthnot and Oliver Letwin in 2012. But they of course got fobbed off with the party line, and the evidence available to them at the time was far from sufficient to take it further.

[ReformedCharacter]

The architect of the faulty Horizon IT system, who gave evidence used to convict sub-postmasters, has demanded immunity before agreeing to appear at the public inquiry.

Gareth Jenkins, who is understood to have been instrumental in developing the software as a senior computer engineer at Fujitsu, is under police investigation over his role in the Post Office scandal.

His testimony given in court cases that the Fujitsu IT system was working correctly was central to convictions and repeatedly used by Post Office lawyers.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/09/horizon-expert-gareth-jenkins-post-office-inquiry-immunity/

RC