PO Scandal

[UncleEbenezer]

The architect of the faulty Horizon IT system, who gave evidence used to convict sub-postmasters, has demanded immunity before agreeing to appear at the public inquiry.

Gareth Jenkins, who is understood to have been instrumental in developing the software as a senior computer engineer at Fujitsu, is under police investigation over his role in the Post Office scandal.

His testimony given in court cases that the Fujitsu IT system was working correctly was central to convictions and repeatedly used by Post Office lawyers.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/09/horizon-expert-gareth-jenkins-post-office-inquiry-immunity/

RC

Interesting sequencing. Don't they usually delay inquiries until after any prosecutions have taken place, to avoid precisely this kind of thing? So if he's under police investigation, one can hardly blame him for declining an opportunity to give evidence that might be used against him!

[Redmires]

The architect of the faulty Horizon IT system, who gave evidence used to convict sub-postmasters, has demanded immunity before agreeing to appear at the public inquiry.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/09/horizon-expert-gareth-jenkins-post-office-inquiry-immunity/

RC

This report was from over 14 months ago. The popular press have been complicit in their negligence of the case.

https://www.postofficescandal.uk/post/j ... -immunity/

[Lootman]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/09/horizon-expert-gareth-jenkins-post-office-inquiry-immunity/

This report was from over 14 months ago. The popular press have been complicit in their negligence of the case.

Or maybe the average voter just doesn't care enough? The media gives people what they want.

[Alaric]

You have to wonder if some insider managed to syphon millions out of the system and is now sunning themselves on some tropical island.

The drama suggested it disappeared into Post office profits. But the alternative cannot perhaps be ruled out.

[UncleEbenezer]

You have to wonder if some insider managed to syphon millions out of the system and is now sunning themselves on some tropical island.

The drama suggested it disappeared into Post office profits. But the alternative cannot perhaps be ruled out.

Neither would I rule out the possibility - even likelihood - that it simply vanishes into nothingness.

It is, after all, fiat money represented purely by computer records.

[Nimrod103]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/01/09/horizon-expert-gareth-jenkins-post-office-inquiry-immunity/

RC

This report was from over 14 months ago. The popular press have been complicit in their negligence of the case.

https://www.postofficescandal.uk/post/j ... -immunity/

AIUI the significance of the Jenkins evidence, which was supposed to have been given 14 months ago, is that on both occasions he was scheduled to give evidence to the enquiry, the PO released large amounts of ‘newly discovered’ evidence the day before, and so his appearance was delayed by the enquiry judge. The KC acting for the enquiry thinks these things are related. As reported in the Telegraph yesterday.

[swill453]

The drama suggested it disappeared into Post office profits. But the alternative cannot perhaps be ruled out.

Neither would I rule out the possibility - even likelihood - that it simply vanishes into nothingness.

It is, after all, fiat money represented purely by computer records.

The missing revenue from phantom transactions would create a genuine hole in the accounts.

For example, say Horizon asserts that £100 of stamps have been sold when they haven't. The accounts now show a deficit of £100 which reduce PO profit by that amount.

So the sub-postmaster is forced to hand over £100 to make up the (non-existent) shortfall, and the problem disappears.

Scott.

[swill453]

Or maybe the average voter just doesn't care enough? The media gives people what they want.

In this case it's taken the ITV drama to raise public awareness to critical mass. So now we have the embarrassing spectacle of the government falling over themselves to assert they always cared about it, despite there being no evidence they did (looking at you, Priti Patel...).

Scott.

[Nimrod103]

Or maybe the average voter just doesn't care enough? The media gives people what they want.

In this case it's taken the ITV drama to raise public awareness to critical mass. So now we have the embarrassing spectacle of the government falling over themselves to assert they always cared about it, despite there being no evidence they did (looking at you, Priti Patel...).

Scott.

Do you think Home Secretaries should be able to overturn the legal process when they feel like it?

[swill453]

In this case it's taken the ITV drama to raise public awareness to critical mass. So now we have the embarrassing spectacle of the government falling over themselves to assert they always cared about it, despite there being no evidence they did (looking at you, Priti Patel...).

Do you think Home Secretaries should be able to overturn the legal process when they feel like it?

What they did or didn't do in the past is one matter.

As ever, it's the lying about it now that's shameful.

Scott.

[Nimrod103]

Do you think Home Secretaries should be able to overturn the legal process when they feel like it?

What they did or didn't do in the past is one matter.

As ever, it's the lying about it now that's shameful.

Scott.

As of reports during the last few days, I don't think anyone has been proven to have lied. Perhaps with the exception of the single expert witness who appears to have made claims in court about the infallibility of the Horizon IT software, on which the prosecutions depended.

Everyone else at whom fingers are being pointed is being accused of a lack of curiosity, and a cavalier failure to do their jobs properly. Plus the way that justice appears to be moving very slowly, in a manner to protect the PO and all the managers and ministers involved.

[swill453]

What they did or didn't do in the past is one matter.

As ever, it's the lying about it now that's shameful.

As of reports during the last few days, I don't think anyone has been proven to have lied. Perhaps with the exception of the single expert witness who appears to have made claims in court about the infallibility of the Horizon IT software, on which the prosecutions depended.

Everyone else at whom fingers are being pointed is being accused of a lack of curiosity, and a cavalier failure to do their jobs properly. Plus the way that justice appears to be moving very slowly, in a manner to protect the PO and all the managers and ministers involved.

(my bold)

You're demonstrating my point for me. In the specific case I'm talking about, Priti Patel tweeted 2 days ago "Since I was elected in 2010 I have fought their cause in Parliament because for me this is personal. Post Office and Fujitsu must be held to account."*

This despite there being no record of her ever bringing up the matter in parliament before this year.

* https://twitter.com/pritipatel/status/1 ... 0169290979

Scott.

[XFool]

Sadly, all the signs now, are that this matter is being taken up for party political gain and infighting as much as for any other reason.

[UncleEbenezer]

Sadly, all the signs now, are that this matter is being taken up for party political gain and infighting as much as for any other reason.

Are you sure? It looks to me like a cross-party matter, and credible politicians are steering clear of party-political nonsense. Only the disreputable fringe (notably the sources nimrod keeps posting here) are pumping out party politics. The Torygraph: a once-reputable paper, now reduced to the arms-length mouthpiece of the Party on matters too dirty for the Party's own hands.

[servodude]

Sadly, all the signs now, are that this matter is being taken up for party political gain and infighting as much as for any other reason.

Are you sure? It looks to me like a cross-party matter, and credible politicians are steering clear of party-political nonsense. Only the disreputable fringe (notably the sources nimrod keeps posting here) are pumping out party politics.

From the coverage I've seen I would agree.
I'm also a bit uncomfortable with the way Fujitsu have become a homogeneous whipping target for the same fringe.

[Tedx]

Talking of Ian Hislop, I have seen little mention in the press (none actually) of the tireless campaigning of Computer Weekly, Private Eye and Nick Wallis over the last 13 or so years. No mention of Nick's BBC 'The Great Post Office Trial' podcast which was aired nearly four years ago. Top marks to ITV for getting getting this into the spotlight but it should not be news to anyone out there, especially the hand wringing politicians and civil serpents.

I remember reading with disbelief when the Post Office/Fujitsu claimed that there was no back door into the Horizon system. The only people who had access were the Postmasters. Yeah, right ! Anybody who has ever worked in IT (and there's many of them on this forum) would know that this is utter b*******t. I'll bet that the Horizon system also caused random surplus amounts to show up on the tills. The system was flawed and I cannot believe that the only errors flagged up were negative amounts.

Ian Hislop on LBC

https://youtu.be/DZP0Ffw6ky0?si=5mqG6_Mf6g7WK1BB

[Redmires]

Ian Hislop on LBC

https://youtu.be/DZP0Ffw6ky0?si=5mqG6_Mf6g7WK1BB

I really do hope that the success of the ITV drama brings a fundamental change to TV & the media. The power of the people, so to speak. Less 'Love Island' and 'I'm A Sleb' and more 'Play for Today' and 'World in Action'

[RockRabbit]

Ian Hislop on LBC

https://youtu.be/DZP0Ffw6ky0?si=5mqG6_Mf6g7WK1BB

I really do hope that the success of the ITV drama brings a fundamental change to TV & the media. The power of the people, so to speak. Less 'Love Island' and 'I'm A Sleb' and more 'Play for Today' and 'World in Action'

Absolutely agree with this. Its not as if there aren't enough potential corruption and/or miscarriage of justice stories out there, they just need to be presented in a more accessible way.
eg NHS contaminated blood scandal, cladding scandal, probable PPE fraud, possible UK freeport fraud etc etc

[Tedx]

Cant say I've ever binge watched 4 hours straight of sleb TV....but I watched all the episodes of Mr Bates v ....

And I found it quite emotional in parts. I don't think I've used the word 'bastards' outside of watching Scotland play football (and that's usually prefixed with 'useless')

[swill453]

BBC Breakfast had a bunch of wronged sub postmasters on this morning, here's a 3 minute clip where they summarise their (almost identical) experiences https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67929023

Scott.