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FanciThat wrote:What is wrong with this statement "I'll meet you at midnight tonight" ?![]()
elkay wrote:GoSeigen wrote:swill453 wrote:I'd rather you answered the question.
Scott.
OMG Google it for goodness sake. The first definition of post meridian is ": occurring after noon : of or relating to the afternoon the postmeridian hours of the day."
What could be clearer than that?
GS
I think Scott was referring to the assertion, not what post-meridian means.
Playing devil's advocate...the wikipedia link says post meridian is after noon. So by this logic 12pm must be midnight then because it is after noon?
GoSeigen wrote:Okay, so as devil's advocate are you saying the sequence goes 11:59am, 12:00am, 12:01pm, or what?
If the above, then do you believe the meridian falls at the moment before 12:01pm, or is the one minute between 12:00am and 12:01pm also post meridian?
swill453 wrote:GoSeigen wrote:Okay, so as devil's advocate are you saying the sequence goes 11:59am, 12:00am, 12:01pm, or what?
If the above, then do you believe the meridian falls at the moment before 12:01pm, or is the one minute between 12:00am and 12:01pm also post meridian?
I would have thought it obvious that by definition the meridian is the instant of 12:00 midday, so 12:00 is neither before nor after the meridian.
That we choose by convention to equate 12pm to being midday is more sensible than midnight.
But there's sufficient argument for ambiguity that to quote 12pm in important banking and insurance contexts is rather stupid.
Scott.
GoSeigen wrote:Well, we seem close to agreement here. In fact I even agree with the idea that there is ambiguity but I'd stress it is only in the minds of confused people, not in any considered, logical context. Having done a quick google it became apparent that very many people fall into that confused camp. My conclusion: schools, parents and kids clubs are not doing a good enough job.
Logically (and not just from convention), it is very easy to see there is sensibly one minute between 12pm and 12:01pm which would not be the case if 12pm were midnight -- but logic comes more easily to some people than others! Banks and insurance companies seldom have trouble with logic; however I agree that the same can not be said of their customers (and investors, LOL!).
GS
GoSeigen wrote:swill453 wrote:GoSeigen wrote:Okay, so as devil's advocate are you saying the sequence goes 11:59am, 12:00am, 12:01pm, or what?
If the above, then do you believe the meridian falls at the moment before 12:01pm, or is the one minute between 12:00am and 12:01pm also post meridian?
I would have thought it obvious that by definition the meridian is the instant of 12:00 midday, so 12:00 is neither before nor after the meridian.
That we choose by convention to equate 12pm to being midday is more sensible than midnight.
But there's sufficient argument for ambiguity that to quote 12pm in important banking and insurance contexts is rather stupid.
Scott.
Well, we seem close to agreement here. In fact I even agree with the idea that there is ambiguity but I'd stress it is only in the minds of confused people, not in any considered, logical context. Having done a quick google it became apparent that very many people fall into that confused camp. My conclusion: schools, parents and kids clubs are not doing a good enough job.
Logically (and not just from convention), it is very easy to see there is sensibly one minute between 12pm and 12:01pm which would not be the case if 12pm were midnight -- but logic comes more easily to some people than others! Banks and insurance companies seldom have trouble with logic; however I agree that the same can not be said of their customers (and investors, LOL!).
GS
AleisterCrowley wrote:If your clock reads 12:00 at midnight what does the 12 refer to?
It's hours, is it not?
12 hours before midday, or 12 hours after midday ?
AleisterCrowley wrote:If you paint half your wall black and the other half white, what colour is the dividing line?
tjh290633 wrote:Wec are arguing over one second. That between 2359:59 and 0000:01. That is Midnight. End of argument.
TJH
servodude wrote:tjh290633 wrote:Wec are arguing over one second. That between 2359:59 and 0000:01. That is Midnight. End of argument.
TJH
I thought we were arguing over whether midnight is before or after the noon![]()
- I'd probably say that midnight itself doesn't have a duration![]()
-sd
tjh290633 wrote:servodude wrote:tjh290633 wrote:Wec are arguing over one second. That between 2359:59 and 0000:01. That is Midnight. End of argument.
TJH
I thought we were arguing over whether midnight is before or after the noon![]()
- I'd probably say that midnight itself doesn't have a duration![]()
-sd
It is just one point in time. That happens to be exactly 12 hours after the previous noon and 12 hours before the next noon.
TJH
servodude wrote:Exactly! it's a singular point in time that is both simultaneously equally ante and post meridian.. so the use of 12pm or am to mean a specific time of day is a bit vague![]()
-sd
tjh290633 wrote:servodude wrote:Exactly! it's a singular point in time that is both simultaneously equally ante and post meridian.. so the use of 12pm or am to mean a specific time of day is a bit vague![]()
-sd
And that is why in military terminology there is no such time as 00:00. It is either 23:59 or 00:01. That way you know which day is being referred to.
TJH
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