The Lemon Fool

didds wrote:Before Covid that 10pm slot would usually be quite busy. Now its usually quiet, though last night was quite full for a Thursday.

A single data point also illustrating a trend. I drove past my own village pub last night at 9.30 and glanced through the windows to note it was completely empty. Probably because the front door was closed and locked. Closed, at 9.30pm on a Thursday?! I ask you! Are pubs sometimes not their own worst enemies?

I go out bellringing several times a week in a variety of church towers and the social dimension is the pint or two in the pub after, at about 9.15pm. This 'pint after' aspect of bellringing has virtually died out around here as all the pubs have usually closed their doors by the time we are out hunting for a pint, whatever day of the week it is.

Another anecdote, not pubs but a read across I'm sure. From the late 90s until 2015 I worked in the evening/late night on-trade - clubs, bars and student venues and the decline in business was obvious in that period. Every conference and trade exhibition I went to the talk was of decline in the market, margins were squeezed and venues closing on uneconomic nights. We saw licencing reform so all local pubs could stay open past 11pm and steal our USP, the smoking ban came in and changed our procedures increasing costs, security industry reform increased the spend on how we ran door staff. Early evening business practically ceased in that period, our entry prices and drinks deals were adjusted to encourage people, at some points we were giving it away to customers if they came in before 11pm. During that period although inflation doubled our bar prices, spend per head per night declined slightly and our problem with pre loaded punters turning up worse for wear increased. Where I last worked the business model was no longer sustainable and couple of senior managers were made redundant as a restructuring to save costs and redirect the business.

Clitheroekid wrote:I often think that Covid has had a far more drastic effect on everyday life than has been generally recognised, in that the prolonged periods of lockdown seem to have made people far more insular and introverted. I suspect that these characteristics were inherent in a lot of English people anyway, and that having been forced to isolate for long periods of time they actually found that they quite enjoyed it, and have never returned to their previous, more gregarious way of life.

The combination of all these factors has created a perfect storm for the pub industry, and I really can't see the present trend of closures ceasing any time soon.

The lasting impact on lifestyle changes that got introduced with the COVID lockdowns for myself was the broadening of use for video calling. While I had used this previously for work conference calls, these suddenly became the work norm as we all moved to a work from home. However, the more radical change was the adoption of these video calls within my social life.
One of the interesting side effects was that I would 'meet for a drink' with friends that I hadn't seen that frequently (lived further away, different countries etc). No driving involved, cheaper booze at off licence/supermarket prices.

Now, the norm is that I can meet up online with a mate, talk [expletive deleted] and get shitfaced together, and no-one has to get home afterwards

Mike4 wrote:
A single data point also illustrating a trend. I drove past my own village pub last night at 9.30 and glanced through the windows to note it was completely empty. Probably because the front door was closed and locked. Closed, at 9.30pm on a Thursday?! I ask you! Are pubs sometimes not their own worst enemies?

I go out bellringing several times a week in a variety of church towers and the social dimension is the pint or two in the pub after, at about 9.15pm. This 'pint after' aspect of bellringing has virtually died out around here as all the pubs have usually closed their doors by the time we are out hunting for a pint, whatever day of the week it is.

really valid points Mike4.

One of my favourite pubs around these parts I cant ever view as a destination pub for the evenings, as you can never guarantee it being open ... published opening hours are only a starter for one sided negotiation So its a case if in passing

1) seeing its open
2) being in the mood!

As a local CAMRA branch our monthly meetings have historically been Tuesday nights, and we try to visit all the pubs in our area in turn (takes about 4.25 years for a cycle! ) . Since covid that night has become a bit flexible - some pubs aren't ever open on a Tuesday (or Monday) now.

I can see that its a double edged sword - they could be open but nobody "ever" come in. But when you are closed nobody can ever come in.

meanwehile I am also that CAMRA branch's Pub Liasion officer. At elast yearly i will trawl through our pubs and check as best I can (web searches bascially) contact details for each pub. having squared that away I then contact every pub via email/messenger/whatsapp etc with a "hi its me again, just checking in blah blah blah and anything we as a branch shoud be aware of or that we can help with or just promote any special stuff you are doing". Out of about 30-odd pubs, about half a doizebn of them will respond. And quelle surprise they are the pubs that feature prominently in the GBG or similar high profile local media. that elaves about two dozen at elast that we never hear a peep from. could be of course that their published contacts aren't up to date ... or maybe they just don't care (they don't have to of course interface with us after all). But it does make you wonder...

didds wrote:
One of my favourite pubs around these parts I cant ever view as a destination pub for the evenings, as you can never guarantee it being open...

Move to London: plenty of pubs and they are always open. Also plenty of wine bars, cocktail bars, which I prefer to pubs, although even I balked at the cost of a cocktail in the bar at the top of The Shard: £33 a pop, plus you only have a limited timeslot in which to drink it. Laughed? I almost bought a pint of bitter.

£33 for a drink in the Shard?

I think I would Shart myself.


Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

shart
/ʃɑːt/
vulgar slang
verb
verb: shart; 3rd person present: sharts; past tense: sharted; past participle: sharted; gerund or present participle: sharting

- expel faeces accidentally when breaking wind.

Tedx wrote:£33 for a drink in the Shard?

I think I would Shart myself.


Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

shart
/ʃɑːt/
vulgar slang
verb
verb: shart; 3rd person present: sharts; past tense: sharted; past participle: sharted; gerund or present participle: sharting

- expel faeces accidentally when breaking wind.

As I explained to my then 2 year old daughter (now nearly 20) that's what we call "following through"

I think it was Fred Sirieix's excellent advice for the over 50s, "Never trust a fart."

servodude wrote:

- expel faeces accidentally when breaking wind.[/i]

As I explained to my then 2 year old daughter (now nearly 20) that's what we call "following through"

Lol we've called it that for 40 years at least... Still makes me snigger!

Tedx wrote:£33 for a drink in the Shard?

F that for a G of Cs!

There's no way I'd ever pay more than £32.99 for a cocktail, wherever it is.

Hallucigenia wrote:

kempiejon wrote:I remember when minimum wage was introduced, we paid the student part-time staff £3.20 per hour and they could buy a pint for £1.60.

So a beer cost 30 minutes of wages - although Guinness would have cost quite a bit more??

Beerpig wrote:We spent Christmas in London with the children and their partners in the course of which four of us went for a 'sharpener' in Southwark on Christmas Eve.
£27 for two pints of Guinness and two lagers.
Blimey! In my local in Teesside the round would be £12.50.
I don't know how the young manage to afford a good old fashioned 'sesh' without a bankers draft!

So £6.75 a pint. Minimum wage is currently £10.42/hour (£11.44 from April) but in central London bar staff are getting a minimum of £12, and £15-16 if they are any good. So the cost of the pint in minutes of low-end wages hasn't changed much - I suspect many people don't realise quite how much minimum wage has gone up beyond inflation (up over 60% in real terms) and in turn that's a major reason for higher beer prices, as the beer can cost as much as the labour to serve it once you add in now-compulsory extras like pension costs).

/

It was a deliberate policy of the Government. Back around the Millenium the Low Pay Commission reported on the effect of the National Minimum Wage and concluded that the Government should not raise the NMW because of the adverse effects on hospitality and care industries. The government went ahead with it anyway, because their advisors pointed out that it was what people wanted/ expected and that was far more important than whether it actually did more harm than good , not least because it would take several years for the effects to show in the economy and it would be someone else's problem.

Mike4 wrote:Closed, at 9.30pm on a Thursday?! I ask you! Are pubs sometimes not their own worst enemies?

I go out bellringing several times a week in a variety of church towers and the social dimension is the pint or two in the pub after, at about 9.15pm. This 'pint after' aspect of bellringing has virtually died out around here as all the pubs have usually closed their doors by the time we are out hunting for a pint, whatever day of the week it is.

I think this is perhaps a case of customers being their own worst enemies.

The publican is not a mindreader, he doesn't know that you are hunting for a pint. But he can look at his records and see that trade dwindles to next to nothing after 9pm, and 9 nights out of 10 the costs of utilities/staff mean he is losing money by staying open after that time. So he is being rational, you just need to have some empathy and understanding - I'm sure he would be happy to stay open if you just give him a call the day before and say you'll be bringing a group in at a time that is normally marginal-to-lossmaking for him.

It's true that generally there's lot less midweek drinking than there was, and the higher costs of utilities in particular means that pubs are looking closely at the "shoulder" times of day to see whether it is worth their while being open, as just 2-3 people lingering over a pint is likely to be losing them money that they can't afford to lose.

SimonS wrote:

Hallucigenia wrote:I suspect many people don't realise quite how much minimum wage has gone up beyond inflation (up over 60% in real terms) and in turn that's a major reason for higher beer prices, as the beer can cost as much as the labour to serve it once you add in now-compulsory extras like pension costs).

It was a deliberate policy of the Government. Back around the Millenium the Low Pay Commission reported on the effect of the National Minimum Wage

When I said "many people don't realise", I was not including the kind of person who reads LPC reports! But a lot of the real-term increases have come under the Tories, there's been an explicit move to effectively move the cost of in-work benefits onto employers - as NMW goes up, they need fewer benefits.

servodude wrote:

Tedx wrote:£33 for a drink in the Shard?

I think I would Shart myself.


Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

shart
/ʃɑːt/
vulgar slang
verb
verb: shart; 3rd person present: sharts; past tense: sharted; past participle: sharted; gerund or present participle: sharting

- expel faeces accidentally when breaking wind.

As I explained to my then 2 year old daughter (now nearly 20) that's what we call "following through"

Its not really a follow through is it? A follow through (to me) suggests a big poop in your pants, wheras a shart is more of a wet shotblast to the underwear.

Tedx wrote:

servodude wrote:
As I explained to my then 2 year old daughter (now nearly 20) that's what we call "following through"

Its not really a follow through is it? A follow through (to me) suggests a big poop in your pants, wheras a shart is more of a wet shotblast to the underwear.

While there's certainly a spectrum of outcomes, we took it to mean "following through" beyond the gaseous, not necessarily to ultimate complete evacuation; I'll accept there might be regional variations (possibly based on diet )

Yes, fresh veg has an unholy impact on the Scottish digestive system. I prefer foods that bung you up for days on end (saves wasting time) and almost give you a coronary when the time comes.

Mike4 wrote:

didds wrote:Before Covid that 10pm slot would usually be quite busy. Now its usually quiet, though last night was quite full for a Thursday.

A single data point also illustrating a trend. I drove past my own village pub last night at 9.30 and glanced through the windows to note it was completely empty. Probably because the front door was closed and locked. Closed, at 9.30pm on a Thursday?! I ask you! Are pubs sometimes not their own worst enemies?

I go out bellringing several times a week in a variety of church towers and the social dimension is the pint or two in the pub after, at about 9.15pm. This 'pint after' aspect of bellringing has virtually died out around here as all the pubs have usually closed their doors by the time we are out hunting for a pint, whatever day of the week it is.

Well, the highly rated (by CAMRA et al) Bell at Aldworth shuts at 8pm every night. That's about the time I normally go out...
I pity the poor citizens of Aldworth and environs who want a Friday night out. I guess they all go to Goring or Streatley

simsqu wrote: even I balked at the cost of a cocktail in the bar at the top of The Shard: £33 a pop, plus you only have a limited timeslot in which to drink it. Laughed? I almost bought a pint of bitter.

Tedx wrote:£33 for a drink in the Shard? I think I would Shart myself.

That is nothing. If you want to visit the bar at the top of the Shard and secure a guaranteed window seat for two, then it is £250 minimum. That gets you an hour, a bottle of fizz and some Asian finger food. Plus tip, presumably.

If you want more relative pricing, I started working behind the bar of a small hotel in April 78 (when i turned 18, I washed glasses for two years before that) my hourly rate rocketed to 50p and hour, a pint McEwans export was 34p, Tartan Special 33p, and a nip of Grouse 34p.

Tedx wrote:Its not really a follow through is it? A follow through (to me) suggests a big poop in your pants, wheras a shart is more of a wet shotblast to the underwear.

Or the kind of violent expulsion meaning it's necessary to check if one received a small gift