Drink driving.

[redsturgeon]

I was just watching a video of a police stop for suspected drink driving...this was in the USA.

The whole thing was video'd on the police body cam which I assume is routine. What struck we was the outmoded process that the officer went through before breathalysing the suspect.

First there was the "follow my finger with your eyes"

Next, "walk in a straight line for ten steps then turn and walk back.

Then, "stand on one leg and count until I tell you to stop".

Then, "count back from 47 to 32"

Then, "recite the alphabet from "F" to "R"."

Then finally if the officer is not happy with your performance he takes you to his car for a breath test.

In the video I watched the suspect performed all the tests pretty well and then she was breath tested anyway and failed.

What is the point of the ad hoc test then, why not just give the breath test straight away, my understanding is that in the UK we stopped those other tests a long time ago. When I was last stopped by the police for speeding about thirty years ago they just got the breath test machine straight out.
(I passed)

The other surprising thing in the video I watched was that as soon as the suspect ( a 41 year old women who was a high ranking government official) failed the breath test, she was immediately put into handcuffs. Why?

It all seemed very heavy handed (although the police officer was the epitome of friendly and polite).

At least they didn't shoot her I suppose.

John

[didds]

I'd guess (and may well be wrong!) that there is some precedent that the officer needs to demonstrate "reasonable suspicion" before requiring a breath test. So the rigmarole is followed to illustrate the officer had ascertained that there was a reason to suspect etc. In reality (s)he already does and the rigmarole is merely followed whatever the outcome in order to fulfill these requirements.

Just a guess of course!

didds

[didds]

The other surprising thing in the video I watched was that as soon as the suspect ( a 41 year old women who was a high ranking government official) failed the breath test, she was immediately put into handcuffs. Why?

My guess (again) is its just standard procedure. If only so that nobody can ever make any accusations of bias or mistreatment as everybody that is arrested is treated the same.

Does the same not happen here in the UK?


didds

[tjh290633]

As I understand it, the police are not allowed to make random breath tests. They have to have "reasonable grounds" for making one.

Presumably in the USA something similar applies?

TJH

[PinkDalek]

… Then, "recite the alphabet from "F" to "R"." …

I did some of those, having been told to get out of the car whilst the policeman had his hand by his holster, initially spread-eagled over the "hood" for a quick search.

Most were fairly easy, even touching my nose with my left forefinger, but I was worried on the alphabet test. I was to start at "T" but wasn't told when I was to stop. I was worried that if I'd got to the end of the alphabet, I'd have to decide how to pronounce the "Z". Should I say Zed (fail?) or Zee (fail as impersonating an American?).

Fortunately they stopped me at "W" and I was commanded to drive carefully (within the 25mph speed limit - whoops) and to have a nice day.

They knew I'd been drinking (Bar Harbor, Maine) but passed the sobriety tests and wasn't given a breath test. I've no idea if they had such a tester, as there was no mention of it.

[jfgw]

The other surprising thing in the video I watched was that as soon as the suspect ( a 41 year old women who was a high ranking government official) failed the breath test, she was immediately put into handcuffs. Why?

My guess (again) is its just standard procedure. If only so that nobody can ever make any accusations of bias or mistreatment as everybody that is arrested is treated the same.

Does the same not happen here in the UK?


didds

The use of handcuffs in the UK is an assault and would have to be justified.

How thoroughly was the arrestee searched for a concealed firearm? Could she have have grabbed an officer's gun? (I understand that US police officers are much better at holding onto their own guns than they used to be. Maybe handcuffs are part of this.) This is a risk that is largely inapplicable in the UK.

Julian F. G. W.

[AleisterCrowley]

O/T but I get round drink-driving laws by not driving. Ever.
Better than the alternative.

[bungeejumper]

As long as the tests are being administered fairly and without racial profiling, etc, I don't really understand what the fuss is about. In France, a few years ago, I was stopped by police who were electronically breathalysing every driver who came down a particular road. Yes, they can do that in France but not here.

The gendarme was courteous and took care to make sure that I understood everything that he was saying to me. (Having GB plates, obviously - but in fact my French is well up to these sorts of situations.) The test took 30 seconds and I came up with a zero score, which was the right result since I had nothing on my conscience. He then broke off the disposable mouthpiece on the test machine and gave it to me (standard practice, for health reasons), and said thank you and bonne route to me, and I said thank you to him and drove away.

Oh sure, I'd have been sweating a bit if I'd had half a bottle of wine with my lunch. But I hadn't. And if I'd been a Frenchman with a typical social circle, I'd have related the generally positive experience to them and they'd all have been a little more inclined in future to stick to the sensible options at lunchtime. Isn't that the whole point?

BJ

[Beerpig]

The police can stop and breathalyse anyone at any time if they have a reasonable suspicion they have been drinking.
Testing is routine after an accident.
These days most of the info they have is from watching people drive badly or usually people informing on offenders.
If you're stopped and over there is nothing you can or should be able to do about it.

If you are not over, then no point complaining- it wont get you anywhere and instead you should just be glad the police are taking action to wipe this out.

[redsturgeon]

The police can stop and breathalyse anyone at any time if they have a reasonable suspicion they have been drinking.
Testing is routine after an accident.
These days most of the info they have is from watching people drive badly or usually people informing on offenders.
If you're stopped and over there is nothing you can or should be able to do about it.

If you are not over, then no point complaining- it wont get you anywhere and instead you should just be glad the police are taking action to wipe this out.

I am more than happy to be breathalysed any time the police want to do it...no complaints from me. I just don't get why the police in the US have to go through the rigmarole of all of those other "tests" before breathalysing. I thought that stuff was only in Hollywood movies.

John

[jfgw]

I am more than happy to be breathalysed any time the police want to do it...no complaints from me. I just don't get why the police in the US have to go through the rigmarole of all of those other "tests" before breathalysing. I thought that stuff was only in Hollywood movies.

John

I can see an advantage where someone may have been drinking just a few minutes previously. Alcohol can persist in the mouth for up to 15 minutes and will produce an artificially high breath test reading.

Julian F. G. W.

[stevensfo]

The use of handcuffs in the UK is an assault and would have to be justified.

Some states in the USA seem to use them for everything.

Years ago I remember reading how a 10 year old boy had made a 'sexist' remark about a teacher in the queue for lunch. The police were called and he was arrested.

The reason this got into the news was due to the outcry over the reaction to a silly boy and the even sillier over-reaction of the Headteacher (Principal?). But when the police were questioned, they explained that it was to protect the child. Apparently, some people become quite hysterical when arrested and very violent, to the extent of self-harm.

I have no doubt that a hysterical 10 year old american boy may possess incredible strength since they probably weigh twice that of an average 10 year old European child, but I can't help wondering how any child of that age could remain calm while being arrested.


Steve

[Slarti]

I am more than happy to be breathalysed any time the police want to do it...no complaints from me. I just don't get why the police in the US have to go through the rigmarole of all of those other "tests" before breathalysing. I thought that stuff was only in Hollywood movies.

It almost certainly varies from state to state with, I believe, some states not even having breathalysers and certainly not having the 2nd test back at the station that we do.

As for the cuffs, I think they do that to everybody that they have requested to accompany them to the station so as to improve their chances of staying alive.

Slarti

[Lootman]

As I understand it, the police are not allowed to make random breath tests. They have to have "reasonable grounds" for making one.

Presumably in the USA something similar applies?

Sounds fair, although isn't the breath test used to provide probable cause for performing the real test that counts in court - the blood test?

If so then what is happening here is establishing probable cause for a test that then provides probable cause for another test.

[Slarti]

Sounds fair, although isn't the breath test used to provide probable cause for performing the real test that counts in court - the blood test?

If so then what is happening here is establishing probable cause for a test that then provides probable cause for another test.

Blood test is only used where, for whatever reason, a breath test can't be done. If you fail the roadside test you are taken back to the station to blow into an evidentiary machine twice and the lowest of those 2 is used in court.

You learn stuff watching TV in hotel rooms.

Slarti

[muldonach]

As long as the tests are being administered fairly and without racial profiling, etc, I don't really understand what the fuss is about. In France, a few years ago, I was stopped by police who were electronically breathalysing every driver who came down a particular road. Yes, they can do that in France but not here.



BJ

Maybe they can't - but they do - its a regular thing in Scotland as Xmas approaches