The World Cup 2018 general pub chat thread.

[nimnarb]

This sums it up fairly accurately...

http://www.euronews.com/2018/07/12/desp ... nd-england

Anyway, hope we see a good attacking show on Saturday from our lads and go all the way to penalties on Sunday.

[DiamondEcho]

Anyway, hope we see a good attacking show on Saturday from our lads and go all the way to penalties on Sunday.

Good job you mentioned that, I'd completely forgotten that we had another game to play!

[brightncheerful]

I have 3 friends who are football-geeks. Most Mondays in the pub I listen to them talk in football language: a sort of staccato.

Last week for the first time since I cannot remember I watched on TV the entire quarter-final match between England and Sweden (I've just had to look up the name of the other team (ie, Sweden) as I had forgotten.). I'm not sufficiently interested in football to want to watch any more but that doesn't mean football isn't interested in me to inspire a prediction.

Last night at 19:05 I texted one friend: "Notional bet. 1-1. C wins on decider"

Friend replied "what even is a decider". I replied "no idea'. But actually 'decider' is per my limited knowledge of football terminology how I describe the extra time.

At 21:47, I texted friend with "Spot on". Friend replied "Oh…is that what a decider is?"

I replied "France will win". He replied "This we know". I replied "But we could be wrong"

[UncleIan]

And that, as they say, should have been that.....but somehow Southgate's millionaires in shining white managed to qualify and get to a semi-final

There. Fixed that for you.

Tis the nature of pundits to go overboard one way or another.

In my opinion, this world cup seems to have got a lot of English people to fall back in love with the England team. Many people, myself included, had become bored of the circus round every major championship, the predictable injury crisis to a key player, the negativity, the media "storm" caused by someone doing something that the tabloids could get outraged by, the team not really looking like a team, them playing with what seemed like the weight of the world on their shoulders.

So the stars aligned, so what? I've enjoyed watching England this World Cup, not something I've said for probably 10-15 years.

We'll probably be back to square one, we'll fluff a qualification match or two for Euro 2020, the press will get on their backs, they'll stop being so unafraid, the fans will get the hump, disunity in the team etc etc. Something for the anti-English to enjoy no doubt.

[Itsallaguess]

..but somehow Southgate's millionaires in shining white managed to engineer a rather inglorious and pathetic defeat.

How on earth did that happen?

It's quite simple - too many first-team players had a poor tournament.

Dele Alli, Harry Kane, and Jesse Lingard (to a certain extent, although he was the better of the three generally) can thank their lucky stars that Raheem Sterling seemed to get all the media attention in terms of not delivering during open play.

That second half against Croatia was shocking, and we got what we deserved. We really shouldn't have got as far as we did with the performances we delivered, and I stand by my view that we often did well simply by being the better behaved in terms of giving away set-pieces and penalties.

Good behaviour will only get you so far in a World Cup though, and when it came to the crunch we didn't have the on-field performances to back up our standing in the competition.

I hope I won't be seen as being too biased, but we strongly missed having options like Chamberlain and Lallana, and the midfield steeliness that Milner would have given us if he'd not hung up his international boots when he did. The Belgium match showed that we had little real strength in depth, and it really showed in that second half of the semi-final.

It's not very often that I agree with Roy Keene....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[PinkDalek]

… the fans will get the hump ...

Looks like it has already started /\ /\ /\.

[UncleIan]

… the fans will get the hump ...

Looks like it has already started /\ /\ /\.

Naaa, I'm still surprised and delighted with New England I'll be more than happy if they carry on this way, and shrug it off if they don't. It's only football.

[poundcoin]

It's quite simple - too many first-team players had a poor tournament.

Dele Alli, Harry Kane, and Jesse Lingard

That second half against Croatia was shocking, and we got what we deserved.

I hope I won't be seen as being too biased, but we strongly missed having options like Chamberlain and Lallana, and the midfield steeliness that Milner would have given us if he'd not hung up his international boots when he did.

I was with you until you mentioned Milner ....that would be too much of a backward step .

Agree about Lalana , never really given an opportunity and always thought it a shame that Townsend never made a permanent place after a sensational start a few years ago for England .

[PinkDalek]

… the fans will get the hump ...

Looks like it has already started /\ /\ /\.

Naaa, I'm still surprised and delighted with New England I'll be more than happy if they carry on this way, and shrug it off if they don't. It's only football.

Me too. I didn't get the impression from your post that you had the hump. Not that I thought England were as good as they were being made out to be by the media circus but they did well with what they had.

[nimnarb]

Regardless who is right or wrong, we may never see them reach this stage again..in some of our lifetimes. They did well for 30-45 minutes in some matches and then took their foot off the peddle in most of them. We really had the best chances ever after beating mediocre teams to reach a final.
We blew it. This isn't "after the fact" or more noise, just the true heart wrenching facts. Still feeling sad for them, but mostly for myself.....

I truly expect tomorrow a memorable performance of pride, guts, determination, attacking verve and non-stop, "yes we are the third best in the world" in 2018.

[nimnarb]

Pathetic.

[Mike88]

England's performance in the World Cup has been over hyped. The media either consistently criticise England or this year exceptionally sing the team's praises. Lets face it England have only beaten mediocre sides and have been exceptionally lucky with the draw. To put their performances against Belgium into perspective little old Wales beat Belgium in the euro qualifiers in 2015 and convincingly beat them 3-1 in the Championships in 2016 with substantially the same side Belgium played today. It seemed to me that the sideways and back passing game that England play is not only boring but outdated. While Southgate and his team are getting significant praise in my view it is hardly deserved.

[PinkDalek]

… To put their performances against Belgium into perspective little old Wales beat Belgium in the euro qualifiers in 2015 and convincingly beat them 3-1 in the Championships in 2016 with substantially the same side Belgium played today. ...

What the pundits were suggesting is that this is a young England side and that Belgium have taken 5 years to get to the stage they are at. Those scores against Wales were 2 and 3 years ago, before Belgium were the side they are now.

Only time will tell!

[Mike88]

… To put their performances against Belgium into perspective little old Wales beat Belgium in the euro qualifiers in 2015 and convincingly beat them 3-1 in the Championships in 2016 with substantially the same side Belgium played today. ...

What the pundits were suggesting is that this is a young England side and that Belgium have taken 5 years to get to the stage they are at. Those scores against Wales were 2 and 3 years ago, before Belgium were the side they are now.

Only time will tell!

I thought the Belgium side was substantially the same. Here is the 2016 lineup:

1Courtois
16Meunier
2AlderweireldBooked at 85mins
15Denayer
21J LukakuSubstituted forMertensat 75'minutes
4Nainggolan
6Witsel
11CarrascoSubstituted forFellainiat 45'minutesBooked at 59mins
7De Bruyne
10E Hazard
9LukakuSubstituted forBatshuayiat 83'minutes
Substitutes
8Fellaini
12Mignolet
13Gillet
14Mertens
17Origi
18Kabasele
19Dembélé
20Benteke
22Batshuayi
23Ciman

[PinkDalek]

… To put their performances against Belgium into perspective little old Wales beat Belgium in the euro qualifiers in 2015 and convincingly beat them 3-1 in the Championships in 2016 with substantially the same side Belgium played today. ...

What the pundits were suggesting is that this is a young England side and that Belgium have taken 5 years to get to the stage they are at. Those scores against Wales were 2 and 3 years ago, before Belgium were the side they are now.

Only time will tell!

I thought the Belgium side was substantially the same. Here is the 2016 lineup: ...

The point was not that they are not the same players but that they have greater experience than 2 to 3 years ago.

[Leothebear]

I think the home reaction to England's efforts this time must be viewed in the perspective of their woeful record in decades of competition. To a lesser degree, the fact that it's a young squad should also be taken into account. Their performance was a significant improvement of the recent past.

However England reached the semis without needing to beat a good team. The win against Sweden was the highlight, especially when you consider England's record against them in the past. But Sweden were pretty poor this time.

England couldn't score in open play. They lacked creativity up front. The contrast with Belgium emphasised that. I disagree that Belgium are average. They have some star players and deserved to be finalists at least. They beat Brazil and ran France very close.

So England are still miles from being world beaters. Maybe though there's something there to build upon.

It's been a fun World Cup with some really entertaining games. Russia deserves a bit of credit for making it so enjoyable for the fans.

Let's hope the final is a fitting climax.

[Mike88]

What the pundits were suggesting is that this is a young England side and that Belgium have taken 5 years to get to the stage they are at. Those scores against Wales were 2 and 3 years ago, before Belgium were the side they are now.

Only time will tell!

I thought the Belgium side was substantially the same. Here is the 2016 lineup: ...

The point was not that they are not the same players but that they have greater experience than 2 to 3 years ago.

I appreciate that was the point but key players like Hazard, Lukaku, De Bruyne, Courtois, Alderweireld and Lukaku are no better now than they were two years ago. They were all successful at their clubs. As for England the plan seemed to be to downplay expectations and then make a huge fuss when they manage to qualify from a poor group. I maintain my view that the England team's performance is not as good as people are making out and I simply don't get the claim that the team is at the beginning of a long term strategy to promote youth. The problem is that some of England's brightest talent, lurking in the reserves in clubs like Manchester City and Chelsea, will never get to play in their first teams and graduate to the England team.

[CryptoPlankton]

I thought the Belgium side was substantially the same. Here is the 2016 lineup: ...

The point was not that they are not the same players but that they have greater experience than 2 to 3 years ago.

I appreciate that was the point but key players like Hazard, Lukaku, De Bruyne, Courtois, Alderweireld and Lukaku are no better now than they were two years ago. They were all successful at their clubs.

Clearly a team that was well beaten by Wales then and can beat Brazil now hasn't learned a thing from all those extra games together

Though it does lend itself to it, I do think there is a tendency to hugely over-analyse football. Take two sides without a massive gulf in ability between them and any result is possible - a single bit of skill, a lucky deflection, a penalty in a shoot out or one refereeing decision can change everything. If you could rerun this World Cup several times, the best teams would very probably tend to make the most progress, but I'm sure you would get vastly different outcomes each time. The unpredictability is all part of the attraction of the game, but the role of randomness is conveniently put to one side in the analysis of success and failure.

I thought England looked quite good, not world beaters, but with a bit of luck did pretty well making it to the semi finals. Nice, let's just hope they evolve as a team and we are fortunate enough to see them do as well (or better) again. I suspect not, but you never know your luck...

[Leothebear]

Though it does lend itself to it, I do think there is a tendency to hugely over-analyse football. Take two sides without a massive gulf in ability between them and any result is possible - a single bit of skill, a lucky deflection, a penalty in a shoot out or one refereeing decision can change everything. If you could rerun this World Cup several times, the best teams would very probably tend to make the most progress, but I'm sure you would get vastly different outcomes each time. The unpredictability is all part of the attraction of the game, but the role of randomness is conveniently put to one side in the analysis of success and failure.

CP I think that is so very true.

[DiamondEcho]

France ahead 2-1 @ 48mins, both French goals based on fouls - wassup with this sport?