Your latest train journey

[tjh290633]

When I were a lad, our last train left in 1928. My aunt was the only paying passenger. There was another line, but that was lifted in WW1. Half an hour or so by bus to get to the nearest stations.

In fact, Associated Motorways coaches were a better bet. Cheltenham Coach Station was only 100 minutes away.

TJH

[rabbit]

Class 802 are designed for 'mainly diesel, uphill'

I saw a clutch of 802s in Laira Depot (Plymouth) for the first time earlier this week, probably there for driver training. I don't think they're in public service yet down here in bandit country. Looking forward to riding them over the Devon banks to see how they deal with those hills!

My latest train journey was on the Exmouth Branch (Digby to Exeter Central). Far cheaper than parking in central Exeter, and a good half-hourly service both ways throughout the day. Basic trains (including the dreaded Class 143 Pacer), but they do the job.

[Lootman]

Looking forward to riding them over the Devon banks to see how they deal with those hills!

What do you mean by the "Devon Banks"? The trains from Paddington can take as little as 2 hours to reach Exeter, 180 or so miles away. But the extra 40 miles to Plymouth typically takes an hour. Cornwall is even worse.

Half of that problem is the coastal route to Newton Abbot, which is flat but subject to curves and the ocean. The second half is hilly and windy. Either way it is ponderous.

Too bad they got rid of the old SR route on the other side of Dartmoor.

[staffordian]

Looking forward to riding them over the Devon banks to see how they deal with those hills!

What do you mean by the "Devon Banks"? The trains from Paddington can take as little as 2 hours to reach Exeter, 180 or so miles away. But the extra 40 miles to Plymouth typically takes an hour. Cornwall is even worse.

Half of that problem is the coastal route to Newton Abbot, which is flat but subject to curves and the ocean. The second half is hilly and windy. Either way it is ponderous.

Too bad they got rid of the old SR route on the other side of Dartmoor.

There are one or two in the Devon area.

If I remember correctly, there is one just past Totnes when heading up to London. If an HST(which has a "loco" at each end of the train) has a fault whereby it is working on only one engine, it is only permitted to operate if it doesn't stop at Totnes, so that it can have a run at the bank.

[AleisterCrowley]

My elderly rail atlas has two marked:
Wrangaton Summit, then Marley tunnel, Totnes, and Dainton Summit.
Been a few years since I did that trip - I used to like the Dawlish/Teignmouth stretch.
I do Exeter every year as I go to a music festival near there. Super fast non stop HST Reading to Exeter then back out on the single track to Feniton...

[rabbit]

What do you mean by the "Devon Banks"? The trains from Paddington can take as little as 2 hours to reach Exeter, 180 or so miles away. But the extra 40 miles to Plymouth typically takes an hour. Cornwall is even worse.

Half of that problem is the coastal route to Newton Abbot, which is flat but subject to curves and the ocean. The second half is hilly and windy. Either way it is ponderous.

Too bad they got rid of the old SR route on the other side of Dartmoor.

The Devon Banks are those hilly bits, well-described by Aleister Crowley.

Couldn't agree more about the Southern route (though this too was a relatively slow route, being longer in mileage terms than the GWR line and not built for speed). This was my local line as a child, and in May this year we commemorated the 50th anniversary of the closure of our local station.

[UncleEbenezer]

The trains from Paddington can take as little as 2 hours to reach Exeter, 180 or so miles away. But the extra 40 miles to Plymouth typically takes an hour. Cornwall is even worse.

That's typical of the difference between "inner England" (broadly speaking, the Southeast), and infrastructure-poor, economically-backward Outer England. Looking from here, the Southeast starts at Exeter, with the fast railway and the motorway being tokens of that.

Agree with others: we need the SR route Exeter-Plymouth via Okehampton and Tavistock back. That stretch around Dawlish is lovely in good weather, but no use when it's washed out to sea. Even setting that aside, it's by no means unusual for the waves to wash up over the trains when you get high tide combined with a bit of rough weather.

[staffordian]

The trains from Paddington can take as little as 2 hours to reach Exeter, 180 or so miles away. But the extra 40 miles to Plymouth typically takes an hour. Cornwall is even worse.

Agree with others: we need the SR route Exeter-Plymouth via Okehampton and Tavistock back. That stretch around Dawlish is lovely in good weather, but no use when it's washed out to sea. Even setting that aside, it's by no means unusual for the waves to wash up over the trains when you get high tide combined with a bit of rough weather.

The SR route, even if it were easy to reinstate, would not be the ideal answer. It was not built as a high speed line, so that would lead to slower journey times, and because of how the line is arranged, every journey would need a reversal, which again will slow things, though admittedly not so much now all services are operated by units rather than loco hauled stock.

The killer to the plan is that as it rises high over Dartmoor, the line would be susceptible to adverse weather like the GWR sea wall route, though it would be snow rather than waves.

I think that in the thirties the GWR had a plan for an avoiding line a little inland of the current Dawlish route, but it was thwarted by WW2.

The current line has two problems at the moment. The first is it's vulnerability to severe damage, as we saw a few years ago, but that apart, the Voyager units which currently operate many of the long distance services have their own vulnerability. They have some exposed electrics on the roof, which means that whenever there is any chance of waves breaking over the track, Network Rail ban them. Apparently the new stock which GWR are introducing is supposed to be seawater resistant, but as I don't think this will be a complete fix, because the Voyagers run the Cross Country services and GWR are getting the new stock for their routes from Paddington to the West Country etc. How long it will be before Voyagers are replaced is anyones guess...

[UncleEbenezer]

The trains from Paddington can take as little as 2 hours to reach Exeter, 180 or so miles away. But the extra 40 miles to Plymouth typically takes an hour. Cornwall is even worse.

Agree with others: we need the SR route Exeter-Plymouth via Okehampton and Tavistock back. That stretch around Dawlish is lovely in good weather, but no use when it's washed out to sea. Even setting that aside, it's by no means unusual for the waves to wash up over the trains when you get high tide combined with a bit of rough weather.

The SR route, even if it were easy to reinstate, would not be the ideal answer. It was not built as a high speed line, so that would lead to slower journey times, and because of how the line is arranged, every journey would need a reversal, which again will slow things, though admittedly not so much now all services are operated by units rather than loco hauled stock.

Indeed, we're not thinking of a high speed line. We know very well that would be too much to ask in an ignored area. But reopening it, even as a single-track line, would be a huge improvement on no line at all next time Dawlish gets knocked out.

As for how easy it would be to reinstate, I'll defer to our lagomorphic friend. But most of it still exists:
- Exeter to Okehampton is kind-of open, though it's a very strange service.
- Plymouth to Bere Alston is part of the Tamar Valley line.
- Bere Alston to Tavistock has been proposed and consulted on in the context of a developer's contribution to the public good, in return for planning permission for a huge new estate. The consultation actually happened in January 2103, a year before the Dawlish section got washed out to sea, yet my detailed response (recorded at https://bahumbug.wordpress.com/2013/01/ ... sultation/ ) anticipated that.

[rabbit]

Agree with others: we need the SR route Exeter-Plymouth via Okehampton and Tavistock back. That stretch around Dawlish is lovely in good weather, but no use when it's washed out to sea. Even setting that aside, it's by no means unusual for the waves to wash up over the trains when you get high tide combined with a bit of rough weather.

The SR route, even if it were easy to reinstate, would not be the ideal answer. It was not built as a high speed line, so that would lead to slower journey times, and because of how the line is arranged, every journey would need a reversal, which again will slow things, though admittedly not so much now all services are operated by units rather than loco hauled stock.

Indeed, we're not thinking of a high speed line. We know very well that would be too much to ask in an ignored area. But reopening it, even as a single-track line, would be a huge improvement on no line at all next time Dawlish gets knocked out.

As for how easy it would be to reinstate, I'll defer to our lagomorphic friend. But most of it still exists:
- Exeter to Okehampton is kind-of open, though it's a very strange service.
- Plymouth to Bere Alston is part of the Tamar Valley line.
- Bere Alston to Tavistock has been proposed and consulted on in the context of a developer's contribution to the public good, in return for planning permission for a huge new estate. The consultation actually happened in January 2103, a year before the Dawlish section got washed out to sea, yet my detailed response (recorded at https://bahumbug.wordpress.com/2013/01/ ... sultation/ ) anticipated that.

UncleE is right. Reinstatement would be pretty straightforward. Most of the trackbed is intact, much of it still operational. All the major structures are in place, although the condition of Meldon Viaduct is questionable (a single track solution over this viaduct similar to Largin on the Cornish main line might work here). There has been little development on the trackbed except in Tavistock itself.

The line would be very useful to the communities of West Devon and North Cornwall and should be seen principally in this context. Thousands of new houses are planned for both Tavistock and Okehampton, and both the A30 and A386 (the main trunk roads in the vicinity) get seriously congested, especially in the summer season and at rush hour. So a good local railway service would be beneficial. A single track with dynamic loops (ie long passing places where trains can pass each other at speed) would probably work pretty well.

The line's diversionary function would be a useful bonus, but Staffordian is right in that it would not be a solution to the speed issue or a permanent alternative to the Dawlish route. However, given the likely lack of investment in any brand new lines in the far South West, it does give the main line some additional resilience whilst meeting a local need.

[Howard]

I haven’t travelled on a train in the UK for a year or so and tomorrow I’m making my first long-distance train trip for probably 30 years. I’m going from London to Yorkshire on the East Coast line.

Having read other interesting comments above, I did a little research and realise that I could just possibly travel on the same 125 train that regularly transported me in the late 70s from Peterborough to Kings Cross and back.

I treated myself to first class.

But how things have changed!

When I booked my ticket, Virgin trains email me, call me by my first name and tell me: “We’re Friends!”

They add “Howard, that's it, well done. The East Coast is yours to explore and we're really excited about our future trips together.”

(Am I right in thinking that Virgin are actually losing the East Coast franchise on June 24th, so I will have to move fast to plan future trips?)

And I get the following friendly advice: “You'll need Adobe Reader or another compatible PDF reader to view and print your tickets. Remember to print them on plain, white A4 paper. If the dog eats them you can always re-download them.”

Today, a day before my trip, they tell me the weather in Yorkshire tomorrow will be sunny and 16 degrees. And they add “Legs out!” Is this normal Yorkshire behaviour when the sun is shining?

Finally they tell me: “You’re good to go!”

As a rather traditional retiree, I’m not sure about this new travel experience. Have they mixed me up with a potential Virgin Galactica passenger?

Yours expectantly

Howard

[JMN2]

I really have no interest in railways or rolling stock but I like Andrew Martin's Jim Stringer -novels and am now reading his history of sleeper trains. Funny and informative. I've learned a lot about Wagons-Lits, loading gauges and why there are no double-decker trains in the UK.

[AleisterCrowley]

The only one I've come across (but not read yet) is 'The Necropolis Railway'
Growing up near the northern terminus of a heritage steam railway, I've always been interested in trains. I find country branch lines and disused railways fascinating. Shame Dr Beeching (and successive governments) did so much damage, but that's 'progress' I guess.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21938349

[melonfool]

I commute to London on Great Northern from St Neots, most days.

I don't want my train journeys to be 'interesting', lately they have been far too interesting but at least my Paypal account is getting filled up with all the delay repays claims!



Mel

[tjh290633]

The line on which I might have gone to school was closed in WW1 and the rails lifted. The other line became freight only in 1928.

Dr Breeching was rather late in the day.

Those lines were the GWR Coleford, Monmouth and Pontypool Road branch and the Severn & Wye Joint Railway respectively.

TJH

P.S. I see that I'm repeating myself.

[Watis]

I commute to London on Great Northern from St Neots, most days.

I don't want my train journeys to be 'interesting', lately they have been far too interesting but at least my Paypal account is getting filled up with all the delay repays claims!



Mel

Mel:

Do you have to prove you travelled on the day a delay is claimable?

Asking because, if you don't, these season tickets would be an investment opportunity!

Watis

[JMN2]

The only one I've come across (but not read yet) is 'The Necropolis Railway'...

That's the poorest of 7-8 novels, the series gets better when Jim becomes a railway detective, trips to Somme, Baghdad and India...and Scarborough.
From those novels I learned what are "up" and "down" lines.

Perhaps I am a closet railway nutter after all.

[melonfool]

I commute to London on Great Northern from St Neots, most days.

I don't want my train journeys to be 'interesting', lately they have been far too interesting but at least my Paypal account is getting filled up with all the delay repays claims!



Mel

Mel:

Do you have to prove you travelled on the day a delay is claimable?

Asking because, if you don't, these season tickets would be an investment opportunity!

Watis

Heh - you don't exactly, but you have to tick to confirm the claim is genuine. If it's not, you're committing fraud I guess.

I buy a weekly ticket every two weeks, it's £126.50. In the last period I had 4 DR claims. Total £16. Not really worth it, plus one of those I was over half an hour delayed. Then on Thu I had a one day return and was late and the claim was £5.20.

I know people have been claiming for cancelled trains they had no intention of getting anyway and one person on Twitter said their 6.28 train was removed from the boards (aka 'cancelled'), the 6.59 gets in too late so they get the 6.08 now, what can they claim and GNR told them nothing. But, I replied and told them no, you claim for the cancelled train as long as the later one gets in later than the cancelled one whether that is later as it is timetabled or later because it is delayed - we can't let them off the hook by just getting up earlier every day!

However, there is no reliable way of finding out when trains historically arrived vs the timetable (such as it is, there are about three different timetables currently).

My situation am is now that I used to get the 7.18 which got in at 8am, gets me to work about 8.40am. They added about 4 stops so it now gets in at 8.15am (on the new timetable) and that is getting on to too late for me, so I shifted back to the 6.59 (as did everyone, the 7.18 was 12 coaches, the 6.59 is eight, so loads of people standing), this stops at more stops than the original 7.18 anyway but is timetabled to get in at 7.44. It is routinely 15 minutes late as they add more stops each day to pick up the slack from other cancelled trains - which, as you can see, simply means I get up 19 minutes earlier from my slumber to get a train that *gets me in at the same time*!
If it hits the 15 mins I put the claim in and roll around in clover with my £3.20.

The other evening, I got to the station to get my 18.06 train (brought forward on the new timetable from 18.07) and it was not showing on the board, not on the app (can't always access the app anyway as four million people try to use the 4G at KC all at the same time) and next train showing is 18.36, so I approached a member of staff.
Her tabbard said "ask me the way to St Pancras" (GNR in its wisdom now runs half my trains from KC and half from St P, but no app will show both stations at the same time....) so I said to her "my six o six train isn't on the board......", I didn't have time to finish before she said:

"have you tried Saint PancrEAS?"
Confused, I said "do you mean Saint Pancras?"
She replied "that's the way I pronounce it, I don't appreciate you correcting me" - like I've got time to get into a discussion with her about how idiotic she sounds, I just say "whatever" and walk away.

Anyway, there is usually a 18.16 train from St P, which is nearly always cancelled, but thinking as the 18.06 isn't there maybe today will be the day they run the 18.16, I walk to St P - not far in itself but to get all the way through and to the platforms is quite a trek - the app by this time is showing a 18.20 train, which I think might be the 18.16 delayed?
Get to the platform, can't see a 18.20 train, check the app again and it shows there is a 'change', I'm thinking huh, where can you change between St P and St Neots? Hmm, open the info and there it is - 18.20 walk to Kings Cross, 18.36 train to Peterborough!

Aaaargh!

Anyway, walk back to KC and as I walk in an announcement says "the eighteen o six will be departing from platform six [that's now in about 2 minutes], this is an additional service [huh - it's on the timetable!] not showing on the boards or the apps so please make your way to platform six as this train is about to depart"!

I made it. The train was only 1/3rd full which is unheard of. It's usually full and then another 1/3rd get on. Stop at Finsbury Park, no-one gets on, also unheard of. Passengers all in mild hysteria, form an unholy alliance and all agree to claim for the disappeared 18.06 despite the fact we are ON IT! I did, that was £6.40 - nearly a G&T to ease away the stress!

Oh, and to rub salt in the wound, that trains stopped at additional stops (where no-one got on or off as no-one knew it existed) and was late anyway.

This nonsense is currently happening every single day.

Mel

[UncleEbenezer]

I made it. The train was only 1/3rd full which is unheard of. It's usually full and then another 1/3rd get on. Stop at Finsbury Park, no-one gets on, also unheard of. Passengers all in mild hysteria, form an unholy alliance and all agree to claim for the disappeared 18.06 despite the fact we are ON IT! I did, that was £6.40 - nearly a G&T to ease away the stress!
Mel

Stories of strange things! The thought just crossed my mind there, are you channelling Henry James or somesuch?

[tjh290633]

Mel, there is an app that will do what you want. It's the National Rail Enquiries app and if you use the "Live Trains" option for your home station it will show you arrivals or departures from all stations. If you know the scheduled arrival time of your trains, you can see which station it starts from, be it KXC, Moorgate or Horsham, for example. It will show cancelled or late running trains.

Give it a try.

TJH