The beginning of the end

[swill453]

I sold a bike and the buyer paid with a £100 note. In Scotland. I knew this was likely to be refused in most places I spend cash in, even in Scotland, so I immediately deposited it into my bank account.

Scott.

[stevensfo]

In Italy, lots of people pay with 100 euro notes in and Dept stores and very occasionally 500 notes. But almost every till in every shop has a small machine that they put the note through to check it's real. Takes two seconds.

Steve

[tjh290633]

The bottom line here that as extremely sporadic visitors to London, we have no need normally for anything like an oyster card. And its another piece of flap to have to go through just to get wherever we are going. Once a year (if that).

About the same for me as regards visiting London properly, rather more often as regards travelling via London. But still no need for an Oyster card: if I'm travelling via London, the train ticket covers it; if I'm visiting London properly, a 'Travelcard' ticket covers the entire day's travel.

But I'm not against Oyster cards and other contactless cards that have a limited supply of credit on them at any one time - indeed, if the banks were to offer a contactless 'small payments only' card with a limited amount of credit that couldn't be overdrawn and could only be topped up by accessing one's bank account by another method and choosing a top-up option, I would probably be an early adopter... Of course, maybe they do - I don't guarantee to be aware of every new development! ;-)

Gengulphus

Gengulphus, may I direct you to Barclaycard BPAY, which is a contactless card in various forms, keyfobs, wristbands, etc. You can top it up either manually or automatically from an associated card. If the balance falls below £30, you get a request to top up. If that is done automatically, you get a message to tell you.

TJH

[melonfool]

I use contactless whenever I can except in pubs and restaurants. After a pizza or a burger I want to leave quickly and not feel pressurised about the tip. I tip quite generously, say the bill is £16 for a pizza and a coke. Instead of feeling awkward deciding the tip in front of the waitress and wasting time in general I just drop a twenty and say my goodbyes when walking out.

I don't think I ever eat in restaurants so low brow that I could get a meal for under £30 to be honest......



Mel

[melonfool]

Oh yes? How on earth do UK Finance think they know how many cash payments are happening? Are they simply ignoring the ones that go nowhere near their data gathering? Or are they estimating them, and if so, how?

I've tried to find the answers to those questions, but I haven't found them in the summary report available for free on their website, and the full report costs £3,000+VAT! (And its table of contents, which is available for free, doesn't inspire me with confidence that the answers are there either...)

If anyone wants to read the free stuff (or indeed even pay for the full report!), it's available from https://www.ukfinance.org.uk/statistics/payments/.


Gengulphus

If you're *really* interested - ask here, they'll probably answer: info@cashservices.org.uk or Tweet them

That guy standing at the whiteboard? I recruited him: https://cashservices.org.uk/about-us

Mel

[tjh290633]

Come to Wetherspoon's, Mel. Meal and a pint for just over £7. It doesn't have to be a pint.

TJH

[melonfool]

Come to Wetherspoon's, Mel. Meal and a pint for just over £7. It doesn't have to be a pint.

TJH

Nah, not putting money in that guy's pockets!

Mel

[Gengulphus]

If you're *really* interested - ask here, they'll probably answer: info@cashservices.org.uk or Tweet them

That guy standing at the whiteboard? I recruited him: https://cashservices.org.uk/about-us

I'm probably not all that interested, in fact - the most interesting point to me was the way people were discussing what the BBC report linked to in this thread's OP said without apparently asking themselves the simple question "How do UK Finance know?" - UK Finance being the organisation that released the "UK Payment Markets 2018" report, which is what the BBC report is clearly based on (I'd guess indirectly via its free summary). As they're a banking trade body, it's very easy to see how they're likely to know about card payments - but cash payments are a different matter!

Not a firm decision, though - I might decide that I'm interested enough to ask UK Finance directly. But if so, why should I ask Cash Services? As far as I can tell, they're a completely separate organisation from UK Finance. And I haven't seen them mentioned in the BBC report or this thread or the UK Finance website... But neither have I seen a guy standing at a whiteboard, so it looks as if you might well have found something that I haven't and that gives more information about the matter?

TJH: Thanks for the tip about Barclaycard BPAY - might well be of interest!

Gengulphus

[JMN2]

I use contactless whenever I can except in pubs and restaurants. After a pizza or a burger I want to leave quickly and not feel pressurised about the tip. I tip quite generously, say the bill is £16 for a pizza and a coke. Instead of feeling awkward deciding the tip in front of the waitress and wasting time in general I just drop a twenty and say my goodbyes when walking out.

I don't think I ever eat in restaurants so low brow that I could get a meal for under £30 to be honest......



Mel

I had pizza in Zizzi, very good value. I also had pasta in Bella Pasta - lovely waitress putting up a fake Italian accent. Well worth it.

[AleisterCrowley]

I'd pay £30 for two people...
Excluding beer/wine I can't remember the last time I had a meal out costing over £30. I'm not a fan of 'fine dining'....

[redsturgeon]

I'd pay £30 for two people...
Excluding beer/wine I can't remember the last time I had a meal out costing over £30. I'm not a fan of 'fine dining'....

I think any hopes of a budding romance between you and Mel have been dashed...

John

[melonfool]

If you're *really* interested - ask here, they'll probably answer: info@cashservices.org.uk or Tweet them

That guy standing at the whiteboard? I recruited him: https://cashservices.org.uk/about-us

I'm probably not all that interested, in fact - the most interesting point to me was the way people were discussing what the BBC report linked to in this thread's OP said without apparently asking themselves the simple question "How do UK Finance know?" - UK Finance being the organisation that released the "UK Payment Markets 2018" report, which is what the BBC report is clearly based on (I'd guess indirectly via its free summary). As they're a banking trade body, it's very easy to see how they're likely to know about card payments - but cash payments are a different matter!

Not a firm decision, though - I might decide that I'm interested enough to ask UK Finance directly. But if so, why should I ask Cash Services? As far as I can tell, they're a completely separate organisation from UK Finance. And I haven't seen them mentioned in the BBC report or this thread or the UK Finance website... But neither have I seen a guy standing at a whiteboard, so it looks as if you might well have found something that I haven't and that gives more information about the matter?

TJH: Thanks for the tip about Barclaycard BPAY - might well be of interest!

Gengulphus

Cash Services will have fed into the UKF report, they all used to be the same organisation until the PSA (under the FCA) decided that was a conflict of interest for consumers and split them all up - enter me to manage the TUPE transfers!

CS will be very happy to answer you, there are only about 5 of them, they're all very friendly and they usually just dream that people would be more interested in what they do.

Don't know if you saw this but it's on the CS website and is a UKF document: https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/8b9259 ... 484247.pdf

This is the director - he's a great guy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-hensley-969420a/

I reckon if you just phoned him you'd have a really interesting chat.

Mel

[bungeejumper]

I use contactless whenever I can except in pubs and restaurants. After a pizza or a burger I want to leave quickly and not feel pressurised about the tip. I tip quite generously, say the bill is £16 for a pizza and a coke. Instead of feeling awkward deciding the tip in front of the waitress and wasting time in general I just drop a twenty and say my goodbyes when walking out.

Tipping in pubs is really getting quite difficult if you pay by card (as I prefer to do, especially if I'm running a tab behind the bar). By the time they've got the total up on the mobile card reader and you've noticed the option to add a bit more (which isn't always there), both you and the waiter are in for a baffling rigmarole of trying to get it altered, and you almost feel embarrassed about putting them through the trouble of it. Which is absurd!

That at least has been my experience. If tipping in pubs and 'counter' restaurants were to vanish completely in favour of an all-in-the-menu-price service charge - as it now has in France(**) - the end of a meal would become a lot less fraught and I could head out into the night without even having to think about whether anybody was cursing my miserly departing heels.

As for cash, I keep a tenner's worth of coins in the car for parking meters, and a few quid in my pocket for charity box collectors and buskers. It's a rare thing indeed for me to buy anything in cash.

BJ

(** Yeah, all right, you can still tip in France for truly exceptional service, but the change in the law has at least laid down a line that says you don't need to feel pressurised to do it.)

[AleisterCrowley]

I'd pay £30 for two people...
Excluding beer/wine I can't remember the last time I had a meal out costing over £30. I'm not a fan of 'fine dining'....

I think any hopes of a budding romance between you and Mel have been dashed...

John

I'm very 'low brow'...and my knuckles drag along the ground
Typical comment from me: " SEVEN POUNDS for a STARTER??! How much? I'm not ****** paying that. Can't we go somewhere cheaper,like 'spoons??" etc etc

[bungeejumper]

Had to laugh at the FCA's shock discovery that rural take-up of mobile phone banking is only 23%, compared with 47% in urban areas. Whatever could be causing such backward rustic Luddism, the BBC asks?

Crappy 3G coverage, you wazzocks. Have you ever been outside the M25 at all? Can't even get 2G around these parts. (And my daughter's entire village in the Midlands is a notspot.)

Of course, I suppose I could always do my banking via a public-access wifi in the pub?

BJ

[AleisterCrowley]

Bloomin' mobile operators.
Vermin! The lot of 'em!
(That did occur to me when I read the article, unsurprisingly..)

[UncleEbenezer]

Typical comment from me: " SEVEN POUNDS for a STARTER??! How much? I'm not ****** paying that. Can't we go somewhere cheaper,

With you so far.

like 'spoons??" etc etc

Ouch! Did you have to ruin it with the implication that reasonably-priced can't/shouldn't mean good?

[AleisterCrowley]

Well, I know some people don't like Mr Tim Martin.....
I 'sort-of' met him once, at the bar. He was drinking a half of Abbot.
And yes, I can think of a lot of places that would do a really good meal for <<£30, freshly cooked with good ingredients.

[melonfool]

Had to laugh at the FCA's shock discovery that rural take-up of mobile phone banking is only 23%, compared with 47% in urban areas. Whatever could be causing such backward rustic Luddism, the BBC asks?

Crappy 3G coverage, you wazzocks. Have you ever been outside the M25 at all? Can't even get 2G around these parts. (And my daughter's entire village in the Midlands is a notspot.)

Of course, I suppose I could always do my banking via a public-access wifi in the pub?

BJ

This reminds me of, some years ago, Chris Evans on his breakfast radio show, asking people to go to the beach with their mobile phone and phone in and then splash in the sea so we could all hear the sea splashing.

No-one called in....he couldn't work out why not......

I was yelling at the radio "there's no signal you London-dwelling moron!". Not to mention people probably have better things to do at 7am.

Mel

[Lootman]

the most interesting point to me was the way people were discussing what the BBC report linked to in this thread's OP said without apparently asking themselves the simple question "How do UK Finance know?" . . As they're a banking trade body, it's very easy to see how they're likely to know about card payments - but cash payments are a different matter!

They don't know, because there is no way for them to know. They probably decided to make various assumptions and then apply inferences based on those assumptions. In other words it is a guess, albeit a more informed guess than most people could come up with.

You could raise exactly the same doubt about all kinds of numbers that get trotted out. For instance I often see estimates that tax evasion costs the government X billions. But how does anyone know? By definition undetected cases of tax evasion are, well, undetected, so nobody can know how much there is. A fortiori, tax avoidance.

It's like estimating the size of the black market. It's called "black" for a reason. It happens in the dark, behind closed doors, in alleyways and car parks, all on the down low. And then who can track movements of value in bitcoin or via hawala?

Now on the other hand how much is lost through bank robberies? That can be well known. But how much illegal parking is there? Lots but nobody really knows how much. Illegal fishing? Smuggling? Money laundering? The only people who really know the extent of these things are the people doing it, and they aren't telling!

People seem to have touching faith in "experts". I'm not so sure.

Well, I know some people don't like Mr Tim Martin..... I 'sort-of' met him once, at the bar.

You see him wondering around Exeter a bit. He has a big house there.