Thailand cave rescue

[Itsallaguess]

So sad to hear of the death of a rescue-diver in Thailand, who was returning from delivering oxygen bottles that are being dropped off along the 2.5mile route into the cave complex where 12 young lads and their football coach are stranded underground in a terribly dangerous predicament.

How tragic must it be that, having waited for discovery and rescue for weeks, the stranded group then find out that they're going to have to learn to dive to enable them to be rescued, even when some of their group cannot even swim...

Compounding the already awful situation, there is the very real prospect of more large rainfalls in the coming days and weeks that may fill the cave complex up even more, so it seems to now be a clear race against time, with a safety trade-off regarding ensuring the adequate swimming and diving competency of the group, against the risk of further flood-water entering their current location...

Telegraph article here with some terrifying details -

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/0 ... ue-effort/

My heart goes out to all those involved.

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[stevensfo]

I can't help feeling sorry for the young coach who took them in. On the one hand he deserves tremendous praise for looking after them and keeping their spirits up, but when they get out I guess he's going to face some difficult questions about why he took them there in the first place.

Seeing as the priority is to avoid any more deaths, I assumed that the plan being favoured was to keep them there a few months till the water goes down, and provide air, sustenance, communication...and even schoolwork. (Apparently some kids are worried about the amount of homework they'll have to do when they get out). But now it seems there may be a danger of the water level rising even more, so they may not have a choice but to dive.

With all our technology, I'm surprised that the navies don't have some kind of small water-tight containers with life-support, so they could just put a boy inside and the divers manoeuvre it through the tunnels.

Keeping fingers crossed!

Steve

[swill453]

With all our technology, I'm surprised that the navies don't have some kind of small water-tight containers with life-support, so they could just put a boy inside and the divers manoeuvre it through the tunnels.

I think the problem with that is the size of some of the openings. There are bits where the divers have to remove their cylinders and either push them ahead of them or drag them behind as they squeeze themselves through the gaps.

Scott.

[JamesMuenchen]

With all our technology, I'm surprised that the navies don't have some kind of small water-tight containers with life-support, so they could just put a boy inside and the divers manoeuvre it through the tunnels.

I think the problem with that is the size of some of the openings. There are bits where the divers have to remove their cylinders and either push them ahead of them or drag them behind as they squeeze themselves through the gaps.

Scott.

There's also bits that are above the waterline, which would make heavy equipment a problem.

[supremetwo]

With all our technology, I'm surprised that the navies don't have some kind of small water-tight containers with life-support, so they could just put a boy inside and the divers manoeuvre it through the tunnels.

I think the problem with that is the size of some of the openings. There are bits where the divers have to remove their cylinders and either push them ahead of them or drag them behind as they squeeze themselves through the gaps.Scott.

Remember the mine rescue in South America where they drilled shafts down, fed and then hauled everybody up in a tube.

Presume this terrain and type of rock makes that impossible.

[XFool]

Remember the mine rescue in South America where they drilled shafts down, fed and then hauled everybody up in a tube.

Presume this terrain and type of rock makes that impossible.

AFAIK, they don't actually know the position of the group from the surface, possibly that is why they are drilling several small holes. Also, I heard that to drill a large bore hole for a lift out, as with that SA mine, they would need to first build roads to the mountainous area to bring in the heavy equipment.

[UncleEbenezer]

Remember the mine rescue in South America where they drilled shafts down, fed and then hauled everybody up in a tube.

Presume this terrain and type of rock makes that impossible.

I suspect the problem with the Chilean Miners solution is how long it took, even on a site (the mine itself) that was suitable for big drilling equipment. If time were unlimited and siting of equipment were easier, I expect that solution would work just fine: limestone is good, solid, reliable rock over human timescales. As it stands, they'd be working in rugged terrain and against monsoon rain: the very water that creates caves in limestone in the first place.

But it's useless for Fools to speculate. Unless someone here has genuine relevant expertise / local knowledge?

[Itsallaguess]

It now looks like they've started the rescue-operation this morning, which sounds like bad news as they would have liked to have taken more time, and it's clear now that they see a risk from impending rainfall causing more danger to the trapped group.

Live feed of the rescue operation from the BBC website here -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/44755093

The bravery of the 12 boys and their coach seems to be matched only by the bravery of the Thai Navy Seals who are trying to pull the rescue operation off, and we can only wish them all well for the terribly risky and arduous tasks they've got in front of them over the next few days.

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[redsturgeon]

The first group are out!

[Itsallaguess]

The first group are out!

Great news - looks like two are out and more on the way.

Let's hope for a 100% success rate.

This is a football group and their coach, and FIFA have said they'll be taken to the World Cup Final when they're out and if they feel up to it.

What a great gesture, and one that I'm sure has kept them all in good spirits during this terrible ordeal.

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[redsturgeon]

Fingers crossed that it all goes well with no more loss of life. Totally gutting that one Thai diver died.

John

[zico]

Tremendous news. I was very pessimistic about their chances, as previously it had been said they'd have to travel through underwater caves for 6 hours continuously, and didn't think it was feasible without the kids panicking and getting stuck. Maybe the water levels have dropped a lot to shorten the time underwater to something manageable.

Here's hoping they all get out safely and off to the World Cup final - I'm sure they'd also meet the teams which would be great for them.

[Itsallaguess]

Tremendous news. I was very pessimistic about their chances, as previously it had been said they'd have to travel through underwater caves for 6 hours continuously, and didn't think it was feasible without the kids panicking and getting stuck. Maybe the water levels have dropped a lot to shorten the time underwater to something manageable.

Here's hoping they all get out safely and off to the World Cup final - I'm sure they'd also meet the teams which would be great for them.

Local doctors are saying that they've taken the weakest lads out first, as the conditions and water-levels were the best they've been since they got trapped, but were likely to get considerably worse over the coming days with impending rain forecast.

They've been pumping water out by the millions of gallons, and many of the cave structures can be walked now, which seems to be the explanation for the swifter rescue times.

As you say, fantastic news, and hopefully better to come yet. Four more lads are nearly at the entrance now too, so perhaps 6 out of the 12 already retrieved.

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[redsturgeon]

Tremendous news. I was very pessimistic about their chances, as previously it had been said they'd have to travel through underwater caves for 6 hours continuously, and didn't think it was feasible without the kids panicking and getting stuck. Maybe the water levels have dropped a lot to shorten the time underwater to something manageable.

Here's hoping they all get out safely and off to the World Cup final - I'm sure they'd also meet the teams which would be great for them.

Local doctors are saying that they've taken the weakest lads out first, as the conditions and water-levels were the best they've been since they got trapped, but were likely to get considerably worse over the coming days with impending rain forecast.

They've been pumping water out by the millions of gallons, and many of the cave structures can be walked now, which seems to be the explanation for the swifter rescue times.

As you say, fantastic news, and hopefully better to come yet. Four more lads are nearly at the entrance now too, so perhaps 6 out of the 12 already retrieved.

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

I saw a map of the cave system that seem to show only two relatively short sections still underwater...I seem to recall about 30 metres length...so much more doable. It must be said also that these Thai boys seem to show a remarkable amount of mental strength.

John

[Itsallaguess]

I saw a map of the cave system that seem to show only two relatively short sections still underwater...I seem to recall about 30 metres length...so much more doable.

It must be said also that these Thai boys seem to show a remarkable amount of mental strength.

Yes, reading the reports, it seems that they'd done a sterling job in pumping a lot of the problematic water out, to a point where they clearly thought things could move on to a staged retrieval operation, especially given the impending rainfall.

Currently four lads out, the weakest by all accounts too, and they are now relaying all the necessary ropes and bottles again for the next group to be taken out. They estimate this relaying process might take 10 to 20 hours.

Given that they've also proved the whole end-to-end process with what might be argued to be the most difficult group, it's a remarkable position for them to be in at this point.

I can't wait to see their smiling faces at the World Cup Final!

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[monabri]

I can't wait to see their smiling faces at the World Cup Final!

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

Yep, good news and I'm sure Harry will let them hold the World Cup for a minute when he picks it up eh? (Whoops, I've cross posted )

[panamagold]

My eldest brother was a speleologist and a member of a cave rescue organisation. He was involved and participated in several rescues, one particularly high profile. As siblings we were never really close but I always held him and his colleagues in the highest esteem and respect for their selfless approach in unbelievably dangerous and severe conditions towards others misfortunes.
My thoughts go to all in the Thailand operation, particularly to those volunteer rescuers and to the family of Saman Kunan who unfortunately didn't make it.

[Itsallaguess]

Four more boys rescued today, and the operation will resume tomorrow to get the remaining four lads and their coach out -

Divers have rescued four more boys from a vast cave system in northern Thailand on the second day of a complex operation.

The Thai Navy Seals leading the rescue operation have confirmed that eight boys in total have been extracted.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44760896

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[swill453]

It seems quite bizarre that the parents haven't been able to see their kids yet, if the reports are to be believed. The "infection" explanation seems a bit of an overreaction. Haven't they heard of masks, or even glass?

Scott.

[gryffron]

AFAIK, they don't actually know the position of the group from the surface, possibly that is why they are drilling several small holes.

Mines tend to be very accurately mapped, and built in mostly straight lines. Natural caves are very wiggly and very hard to map accurately. Even assuming anyone has taken the time to try. So yes, I concur, impossible to know the position of the caves from the surface.

Gryff