The Lemon Fool

My father was an underground surveyor in the coal industry. Unlike coal mines, caves change little over time, and surveying them accurately ought not to be a problem using the same techniques. What worked in the Somerset coalfield, for example, with its very shallow sloping seams, would work in caves. Flooded sections would present a problem.

TJH

I did read (OK it was in The Sun) that the boys , whilst in the cave , at times thought they could hear bird and animal noises presumably through crevices in the upper rock .
Would it have been possible to let off some sort of smoke bomb that wouldn't hurt the lads to see if smoke appeared above the surface amywhere ?
The lads could have worn the oxygen masks they would be diving in later until the smoke dispersed ?
Just a thought .

poundcoin wrote:I did read (OK it was in The Sun) that the boys , whilst in the cave , at times thought they could hear bird and animal noises presumably through crevices in the upper rock .
Would it have been possible to let off some sort of smoke bomb that wouldn't hurt the lads to see if smoke appeared above the surface amywhere ?

I was under the impression that there were hundreds of feet of mountain over their heads? But maybe that was just the fake news BBC getting its facts wrong?

It does stir a folk-memory, though. Somewhere around these parts, they say, a bunch of kids got lost in some local caves and were there for quite a long time before one of them spotted a worm in his flashlight beam. Realising that where there were worms there was probably topsoil, they dug their way out. Smart kids.

BJ

Looks like they're nearly there, with the last of the final group nearly out -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/44755093

Couple of cool videos here showing the Elon Musk 'Mini-sub' solution that wasn't required in the end, but hopefully goes on to become a good option for any future operations like this -

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/101 ... 88/video/0

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/101 ... 29/video/1

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

Magnificent. Scrub Donald Trump's Nobel Prize, and strike a new medal instead for these guys. They got one chance to do something that had never been attempted before, and they didn't blow it.

BJ

They are now all out and safe!

Cave diver on BBC admitting he hadn't really expected they would all get out.

Itsallaguess wrote:Couple of cool videos here showing the Elon Musk 'Mini-sub' solution that wasn't required in the end, but hopefully goes on to become a good option for any future operations like this

Wouldn't a mini sub just make the (relatively) easy bits slightly easier, but the hard bits much harder. Hauling it up and over a rock climb would be pretty difficult.

Scott.

XFool wrote:
They are now all out and safe!

Not quite...apparently now they've been used to experiencing life-threatening levels of boredom whilst living in the cave system in recent weeks, they're now being asked to re-test their mental and physical limits even further....

"Manchester United is greatly relieved to learn that the 12 footballers and their coach trapped in a cave in Thailand are now safe," the club said.

"We would be honoured to welcome the team from the Wild Boars Football Club and their rescuers to Old Trafford this coming season."

https://tinyurl.com/y89g9urg

Those poor lads....

Itsallaguess

The feelings of elation and satisfaction among the rescuers when they got the last one out must have been overwhelming. Something that will live in their memories forever. An absolutely remarkable job, showing the power of international cooperation at its best.
I have not heard if all of the rescuers and medics are out safely yet..... just hope there is not a sting in the tail.

Thoughts now turn to Japan. Over 150 dead and over 2 million evacuated. 2 million! What the heck would we do in the UK if we had to evacuate 2 million people??!!

--kiloran

I think the rescue team deserve a Nobel prize for balls.
They were real heroes.

Incredible achievement by both rescuers and kids and coach.

Apparently the kids won't be able to recover in time to go to the World Cup final. Let's hope FIFA invite the rescuers to the final in their place.

swill453 wrote:I think the problem with that is the size of some of the openings. There are bits where the divers have to remove their cylinders and either push them ahead of them or drag them behind as they squeeze themselves through the gaps. Scott.

With my professional divers cap on I fully agree. To quite a lot of people simply breathing underwater is an alien concept, a hurdle, but for many you can help coach them and lead them through doubts until they see there is nothing to fear. I worked in the dive industry in Malaysia, they have small lungs, they grow up [generally] fearing water, being unable to swim, finding even snorkelling challenging [I'm still trying to coax my wife into enjoying it whilst not 1/2-drowning herself]
Despite my many years of diving experience in all kinds of conditions, I believe I have only had to remove my 'SCUBA unit' [technically: 'jacket'+air bottle, with air etc hoses still attached] on one occasion to penetrate an underwater cave channel. That was in optimal visibility somewhere tropical. It felt a bit like briefly taking a parachute off your back part way through a jump - not something to relish, but a new hurdle to be planned for and executed. That said, I'm at heart a leisure diver and would not want to make a habit of it.

There's no doubt this rescue is extremely hazardous. Allowing for all possibilities of how the boys might react during their exit must be a terrible job to try and plan for.

I see Musk is coming in for some criticism for attention-grabbing and coming up with wildly impractical ideas.

I'm very pleased to see the rescue was carried out using skill, professionalism, calculated risks and a hell of a lot of bravery.

Not by throwing money, high tech and "genius" ideas at it.

Scott.

I too don't understand what is motivating Musk [well...].
This is the place for well tested and known techniques via which known risks can be gauged and navigated, not testing radical new possibilities. I'd hope an opportunity for off-the-cuff self-promotion wasn't a motivator; such vanity would stink. Either way, I understand that quite incredibly they are all now out, and bravo to that.

I've taught complete beginners to dive (in nice clear water and in the rather more murky waters around the UK) and the more nervous they are, the more likely they will panic and "bolt" if pushed too hard. I've also had the horrendous experience of being in charge of trainees when the visibility dropped to zero. Being connected by rope meant I knew I had a body still with me, but no indication of its state. I confess I never want to go through that again.

I've also done a little bit of "penetration" diving, wriggling through small gaps, figuring out how to get kit and body through holes too small for everything together. Also something I would not contemplate doing in zero or limited visibility, nor with kids who were not seasoned divers already.

That the rescuers got the kids out is, quite frankly, stunning. Brilliant, impressive and awesome. I wouldn't have had the balls to do it, nor the mental strength to commit to a rescue attempt that had a very real chance of killing the victim if not executed pretty much perfectly.

Anybody interested in the development of cave diving could do a lot worse than to read some of Martyn Farr's work, such as "The Darkness Beckons". Incidentally, he was the trainer and advisor to several of the Brits who took part in the rescue.

VRD

Interesting to learn more about how the rescue was carried out. Now we know the boys were sedated for the rescue, seems to make sense.

vrdiver wrote:That the rescuers got the kids out is, quite frankly, stunning. Brilliant, impressive and awesome. I wouldn't have had the balls to do it, nor the mental strength to commit to a rescue attempt that had a very real chance of killing the victim if not executed pretty much perfectly.
VRD

As an ex-caver the rescue has been nothing short of a miracle. That only one person died and that all the victims were brought out successfully is incredible.

I don't know how we recognise the heroism involved internationally, but it does need to be recognised.

cavebat

I'm worried about the coach. I imagine that he will feel responsible for the death of that brave rescuer. I hope they manage to look after him.

Chris

csearle wrote:I'm worried about the coach. I imagine that he will feel responsible for the death of that brave rescuer. I hope they manage to look after him.

Of course there are different stories but I read one account that the boys went in the cave by themselves . They failed to return home and worried parents then phoned the coach who went to the cave to find them .
It was down to him that they survived .

XFool wrote:Interesting to learn more about how the rescue was carried out. Now we know the boys were sedated for the rescue, seems to make sense.

O/T, I suppose, but I had one of those procedures recently where they want you to be "right out of it" but still able to move yourself around in response to commands. Afterwards, I could only remember two or three minutes' worth of a two hour operation which had been quite gruesome at times. (I have the pictures! ) I hope those lads missed the worst bits too. It's still going to be a long careful task to rehabilitate them, though.

The quarantine/antibiotics thing made more sense when we were told that they'd survived by licking water that was dripping off the cave walls. Mmmmmm, all those lovely bat droppings.

Incredible job, just incredible. I'm lost for words to describe the courage of those rescuers. I think we can all do with a bit of good news at the moment? (And no, I'm not talking about football. )

BJ