Racist?

[vrdiver]

I received an offer to see a stand-up comedian, live. Not having heard their name before, I googled it to discover that the performer was a young coloured male, with lots of good reviews and well-received appearances on "Mock the Week", "Live at the Apollo" etc. etc.

Nevertheless, I declined the offer, being fed up of humour based on ethnic minority jokes or situational observation involving same. I just wanted to see a comedian who would be funny without banging on about their colour, gender or sexuality.

I still can't decide; was I being racist or just pragmatic in my entertainment choices based on what I've seen on the comedy circuit recently?

VRD

[Howyoudoin]

I received an offer to see a stand-up comedian, live. Not having heard their name before, I googled it to discover that the performer was a young coloured male, with lots of good reviews and well-received appearances on "Mock the Week", "Live at the Apollo" etc. etc.

Nevertheless, I declined the offer, being fed up of humour based on ethnic minority jokes or situational observation involving same. I just wanted to see a comedian who would be funny without banging on about their colour, gender or sexuality.

I still can't decide; was I being racist or just pragmatic in my entertainment choices based on what I've seen on the comedy circuit recently?

VRD

That's a question that can only be answered by you really.

If all of the above remained the same, but said performer was white instead of black, would you have accepted the offer?

If the answer to that is no, then you were definitely not being racist.

However, if the answer to that is yes, you should ask yourself why as it does sound like you are being racist.

All IMHO.

HYD

[bungeejumper]

A word to the wise. "Coloured" is not a terribly PC word these days. Although it's marginally less absurd than "people of color", since we're all one colour or another.

Wait long enough, and Donald J Trump is going to start filing lawsuits against people who call him orange. You read it here first.

BJ

[bungeejumper]

A propos the OP's question, I once watched ten minutes of a Live at the Apollo performance from Reginald D Hunter, who I had quite liked on HIGNFY.

Oh my word. RDH went through every overstated racial trope he could think of, to the point where he seemed to be 'mugging' in the blackface style of Louis Armstrong. All of it presumably intended to be mocking and ironic, but you couldn't get away from the fact that his whole act seemed to centre on his own racial identity. I turned off.

It was also the most verbally obscene act I've seen since (BJ winds his memory back) Lenny Henry, whose live cabaret acts in Brum were waaaaay out of line. Funny how old Lenny has become the calmly integrationist voice of Premier Inns. I suppose old age gets us all in the end?

BJ

[vrdiver]

If all of the above remained the same, but said performer was white instead of black, would you have accepted the offer?
HYD

Fair point. Had he been white, it wouldn't have occurred to me that his routine would involve racial observational humour. But then, of the white comedians that I like, none of their routines do (AFAIK). On that basis, my decision would probably have been "yes", but based on comedic content, not skin colour.

"Coloured" is not a terribly PC word these days

My apologies for any offense caused. I had deliberately chosen it to avoid offense, but it appears I may have failed somewhat.

If it is an important fact, how should one go about describing such an attribute?

VRD

[kempiejon]

"Coloured" is not a terribly PC word these days

My apologies for any offense caused. I had deliberately chosen it to avoid offense, but it appears I may have failed somewhat.

If it is an important fact, how should one go about describing such an attribute?

VRD

Presumable to avoid such situations the police did and I'm sure others still use the IC classification, 1 being white N. European, 2 S European, 3 Black 4 Asian, 5 South East Asian, 6 for Arabic or N. African and rather strangely IC9 is unknown.

Perhaps you are being a bit racist if you have decided that all non white comics use race as their means of generating laughs. Unless of course it's true. But being racist (well unconsiously biased) is often inevitable. https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.html

[chas49]

If all of the above remained the same, but said performer was white instead of black, would you have accepted the offer?
HYD

Fair point. Had he been white, it wouldn't have occurred to me that his routine would involve racial observational humour. But then, of the white comedians that I like, none of their routines do (AFAIK). On that basis, my decision would probably have been "yes", but based on comedic content, not skin colour.

"Coloured" is not a terribly PC word these days

My apologies for any offense caused. I had deliberately chosen it to avoid offense, but it appears I may have failed somewhat.

If it is an important fact, how should one go about describing such an attribute?

VRD

Personally I would have said "black" (assuming this is a fair description of whoever we're talking about.) Or "Black British" - again if applicable. Or possibly BME or BAME, though that might seem too PC to some.

Maybe the simplest way would be to have name the comedian and used no adjective. Out of interest who is it?

[tea42]

I love Reg, I have seen him on the stage a couple of times, the last time he used the N word about 50 times. Its hard for whiteys like me to imagine ourselves in the skin of a black man. Reg is a very thoughtful man and a very honest and good person too IMO. Another comic who uses a similar idea is Doc Brown, met him personally, a very nice guy. Both are trying to rattle racist cages via humour to break down predjudices and barriers. Dont be afraid, Ricky wasnt in 'Life on the Road'

Al

[Lootman]

A word to the wise. "Coloured" is not a terribly PC word these days. Although it's marginally less absurd than "people of color"

Yes, I also think it odd that "people of colour" is the preferred term whilst "coloured people" is considered offensive.

I avoid that by using the term "non-white", although I accept that some would regard that as implying that white is the norm (which in Europe it still is).

[nmdhqbc]

Dont be afraid

Did the OP hint at or mention being afraid at all?

[bungeejumper]

Yes, I also think it odd that "people of colour" is the preferred term whilst "coloured people" is considered offensive.

I avoid that by using the term "non-white", although I accept that some would regard that as implying that white is the norm (which in Europe it still is).

It was EM Forster, I think, who tackled that issue in A Passage to India (1924). Lacking an adequate word to describe Europeans, who were patently not white, he called them "pinko-greys". Somehow it never caught on.

BJ

[madhatter]

Yes, I also think it odd that "people of colour" is the preferred term whilst "coloured people" is considered offensive.

When I was a child, I’d have been ticked off for saying “black” in this context. “Coloured” would have been considered more polite. This would have been when black people seemed either to be doctors or on the buses.

[Lootman]

Yes, I also think it odd that "people of colour" is the preferred term whilst "coloured people" is considered offensive

When I was a child, I’d have been ticked off for saying “black” in this context. “Coloured” would have been considered more polite. This would have been when black people seemed either to be doctors or on the buses.

In the US I have heard some people claim that "black" is not the correct word, although it is generally accepted. The preferred term is "African American". Of course, that doesn't work for US residents who actually are from Africa, and they get a bit pissed off about it. They are African.

I have also heard the expression "non-POC" to describe white people, which is an entertaining turnaround. Rather like the term "CIS-gendered" to describe someone who is not transgendered or gender-fluid.

[OLTB]

gender-fluid.

I must be getting old - what is gender fluidity? Surely one is either male or female as a consequence of their genitalia.

All this used to be trees and aren't policemen/women getting younger these days.

Cheers, OLTB.

[vrdiver]

Personally I would have said "black" (assuming this is a fair description of whoever we're talking about.) Or "Black British" - again if applicable. Or possibly BME or BAME, though that might seem too PC to some.

Maybe the simplest way would be to have name the comedian and used no adjective. Out of interest who is it?

I didn't want to name the comedian,
a) because I wanted to focus on my perception and reaction, rather than their actual material and
b) because I don't want their name linked to a thread on racism unnecessarily.

I've not heard of BME or BAME, so they weren't an option. To say "black" would have eliminated quite a few non-white comedians who could be included as employing the same comedic tool, so again, it didn't feel appropriate. Ditto "Black British" (excludes Reginald, mentioned above).

The thing I'm finding about racism, is that it's quite hard to identify where the boundaries are. It's also quite hard to discuss openly (this being an anonymous forum, I don't class as "openly"). The best I can do, I think, is consider my actions and attempt to take remedial steps should such consideration conclude that I have acted in an unfair or prejudiced manner.

VRD

[vrdiver]

gender-fluid.

I must be getting old - what is gender fluidity?

Isn't that where you identify as a woman on Wednesdays? https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 64706.html

[Ashfordian]

The thing I'm finding about racism, is that it's quite hard to identify where the boundaries are. It's also quite hard to discuss openly (this being an anonymous forum, I don't class as "openly"). The best I can do, I think, is consider my actions and attempt to take remedial steps should such consideration conclude that I have acted in an unfair or prejudiced manner.

VRD

You declined to see a comedian because you are bored of the humour and don't get entertainment from it any more, but are questioning yourself because of the persons skin colour rather than the show content.

Would you be classing yourself as a misogynist or sexist if you declined to see a female comedian?

Would you be classing yourself homophobic or a bigot if you declined to go and see a gay or transgender comedian?


What you are describing is a dangerous disease that is being spread in society by a lunatic minority that I'm not aware have a label yet(happy to be corrected if there is one). However they have common traits such as being 'liberal', left leaning in politics, young but think they know it all, and able to be offended by any comment or message that does not conform to their views.

[nmdhqbc]

lunatic minority that I'm not aware have a label yet(happy to be corrected if there is one)

I hear "Snowflakes" a lot nowadays. Never taken the time to find out exactly what it means but from context this could be it.

[Lootman]

gender-fluid.

I must be getting old - what is gender fluidity? Surely one is either male or female as a consequence of their genitalia.

No, it is considered suspect to define gender these days in terms of biology. The over-riding factor is how you choose to identify. So in the case of someone who identifies as gender fluid, they sometimes feel male, sometimes female and sometimes some mix of the two.

On that basis there are not two genders, but literally dozens. Here is how the eponymous genderfluid website lists them:

http://genderfluidsupport.tumblr.com/gender

Aren't you glad you asked?

[OLTB]

I think I’m more confused than ever now

Cheers, OLTB.