Plane crash in the desert, nothing to drink but beer

[gryffron]

No, I'm afraid that wouldn't work. You really do have to heat a brew to 78C to remove the alcohol. Which is at least 20C hotter than the hottest desert. I used to make quite a lot of poteen.

But a container exposed to direct sunlight will get hotter than ambient air. Much hotter if you can create some sort of reflective solar oven using shiny bits of airplane, or the inside of empty beer cans.

And as VRD has already pointed out. We don't need it to boil, just evaporate the alcohol more quickly. And we don't need to remove 100% of the alcohol, just most of it.

I think the more interesting question is how long can you survive on beer alone.

It has been done. https://www.menshealth.com/weight-loss/ ... beer-diet/
Beer contains no protein and few vitamins. Experiments on monkeys they started showing signs of scurvy (vitamin C deficiency) after 30-40 days. https://content.dollarshaveclub.com/can-live-just-beer. But some beers actually have enough vitamin C to survive. Although my heating process may well destroy it

Gryff

[CryptoPlankton]

Science guy gave a categoric no as an answer. Beer it was explained, has a dehydrating effect, so you cannot drink enough of the stuff to stay hydrated as urine is expelled faster than the beer goes in.

Science guy is an idiot. I have had this argument many time, particularly back in the days when I was in my 20's and 30's. At this time, my liquid intake consisted solely of coffee and beer is about equal measure. I was told on numerous occasions by "do gooders" that I coun't live drinking only these two drinks. Well, I did so for a good couple of decades, and now in rude health in my 60's. Human bodies are much smarter than Science guy gives us credit for.

A little harsh on science guy who was considering the question of whether it is possible to stay hydrated by drinking beer only (which it isn't with "normal" strength beer). Other people, not science guy, told you coffee is dehydrating - it is actually net-hydrating despite being a diuretic. And science guy assumed no food - I'm guessing you had the odd morsel to eat over that period? On average, food provides about 20% of our water intake, but the "smarter" human body may well seek to attain more hydration from this source to compensate when the brain's conscious choice of liquid intake is sub-optimal.

[mrbrightside]

Drink the beer. When that runs out, drink the urine.

I was actually being half-serious here as I thought I'd read about people doing this in extreme survival situations.

However, a little research reveals that, although the urine of a normal healthy person is 95% water, the remaining 5% consists of the very toxins the kidneys have filtered which can be dangerous to ingest. The problem is exacerbated when you're dehydrated (alcohol dehydrates) as the level of toxins (urea, chloride, sodium, potassium, creatinine) increases.

[ReformedCharacter]

But presumably the exercise is to reduce the alcohol content, rather than completely remove it? If, say, evaporation reduced it from 3.5% to 1% or under*, then the dehydration issue from the alcohol becomes manageable and our crash survivors will also get the calories to keep their energy levels up.

No idea what this warmed, now flat, partially de-alcoholised brew would taste like!

VRD

* At the surface of the liquid, there will be a preference for the ethanol to evaporate in favour of the water molecules. The remaining surface liquid will be denser than the lower levels and start to sink, bringing more alcohol rich liquid to the surface. Our crash survivors will need to experiment with surface area / volume / depth configurations in order to optimise their drinking fluids production line.

That's true but do you have enough time? Humans can manage perhaps 3 days in the desert without water. A part of the problem is that only the beer is salvageable so for the sake of the problem you don't have items with a large surface area such as trays to evaporate the alcohol. In reality such items could probably be repurposed from a crashed aircraft. Assuming the beer is supplied in tins (and you have no other items) then enclosing the tins in hot sand with only the opened top exposed is probably the best you could do and even then the preferential rate of alcohol evaporation would take (probably) a few days to make much difference. If you had a knife and the beer was 'almost unlimited' and in tins then some of the tins could be emptied and split with the knife to make a focussed reflective surface which might help heat the beer and increase the alcohol evaporation rate. I think you would probably die of dehydration first though.

RC

[ReformedCharacter]

Science guy is an idiot. I have had this argument many time, particularly back in the days when I was in my 20's and 30's. At this time, my liquid intake consisted solely of coffee and beer is about equal measure. I was told on numerous occasions by "do gooders" that I coun't live drinking only these two drinks. Well, I did so for a good couple of decades, and now in rude health in my 60's. Human bodies are much smarter than Science guy gives us credit for.

You probably weren't living in a desert. A few decades ago when I still drank alcohol and lived in a hot country just 2 beers at lunch time would leave me with a headache due to dehydration. I can't imagine how bad I would have felt if beer was all I had to drink for just one day.

RC

[UncleIan]

Drink the beer. When that runs out, drink the urine.

I was actually being half-serious here as I thought I'd read about people doing this in extreme survival situations.

You don't have to drink it, as someone has already mentioned, you go all Ray Mears and make an condensation chamber, plastic sheet over a hole, cup to catch the condensate, pee in the hole, time passes, more fresh water.

[Meatyfool]

Drinking urine - yes, definitely. But as to the toxins you can only do it a small number of times.

Empty a couple of cans of beer. Pee into them - drink it, fresh urine is sterile.

I would only consider doing this a couple of times though.

By the second attempt, you would probably be so dehydrated from lack of ingesting water or beer, that the urine may be so dark as to make you question the attempt.

A similar thought exercise I heard of several decades ago - what would you do for clothing? In that experiment, they had a heavy coat. Apparently, you should wear it, sure you would sweat, but the sweat would be caught up by the fabric rather than almost immediately evaporating away, thereby keeping you cooler for longer.

Meatyfool..

[BobbyD]

That's true but do you have enough time? Humans can manage perhaps 3 days in the desert without water. A part of the problem is that only the beer is salvageable so for the sake of the problem you don't have items with a large surface area such as trays to evaporate the alcohol.

Open (say) 10 cans of beer. Empty 9. Equally distribute contents of the other can amongst all 10 cans.

[ReformedCharacter]

That's true but do you have enough time? Humans can manage perhaps 3 days in the desert without water. A part of the problem is that only the beer is salvageable so for the sake of the problem you don't have items with a large surface area such as trays to evaporate the alcohol.

Open (say) 10 cans of beer. Empty 9. Equally distribute contents of the other can amongst all 10 cans.

And leave them on their sides

RC

[BobbyD]

I think the more interesting question is how long can you survive on beer alone.

It has been done. https://www.menshealth.com/weight-loss/ ... beer-diet/
Beer contains no protein and few vitamins. Experiments on monkeys they started showing signs of scurvy (vitamin C deficiency) after 30-40 days. https://content.dollarshaveclub.com/can-live-just-beer. But some beers actually have enough vitamin C to survive. Although my heating process may well destroy it

Gryff

If your only consuming beer I'd be impressed if you survived long enough to show symptoms of scurvy.

[gryffron]

If your only consuming beer I'd be impressed if you survived long enough to show symptoms of scurvy.

Why? There's plenty of carbs and calories in beer. No shortage of energy. If we get around the excess alcohol problem as described above, then there's plenty of water too (both the scientific studies allowed their subjects extra water). So the deficiency you hit FIRST is vitamin C - scurvy. Protein and other vitamins would kick in later. Lack of fibre would ultimately damage your digestive system, and lack of anything solid to chew would cause your teeth to fall out. But not within a month.

In our desert scenario, salt might also be a problem.

Gryff

[BobbyD]

If your only consuming beer I'd be impressed if you survived long enough to show symptoms of scurvy.

Why? There's plenty of carbs and calories in beer. No shortage of energy. If we get around the excess alcohol problem as described above, then there's plenty of water too (both the scientific studies allowed their subjects extra water)...

Which is why I don't consider them relevant to the question how long can you survive on beer alone.

[chrissyr]

Isn't much of the calories in beer due to the alcohol which we have just removed?
There is still some sugar\energy so better than any distilled water method I think.

[UncleEbenezer]

You don't need to heat the beer, just get it to evaporate and condense like dew. The classic Ray Mears way is to dig a pit, fill it with beer and put a downwards facing cone of material over it that will drip dew like condensate into a fresh water bottle. You can even speed the process by dampening the other side of the fabric with more beer to get evaporative cooling.

That's a regular serious suggestion for if you get lost at sea and have to extract drinkable water from the brine.

[DiamondEcho]

Isn't much of the calories in beer due to the alcohol which we have just removed? There is still some sugar\energy so better than any distilled water method I think.

If you leave an opened can of beer in a fridge, fridges having a low humidity atmosphere, after say 2 days it'll be both flat (of course), but also have lost it's alcohol tang. Deserts are similarly low humidity. If it were me I'd open a can, leave it to bake in the sun for a couple of hours and then see it tasted, or better perhaps pour it into a vessel with a large exposed surface area, and ensure the heat facing side was in close contact with heat (sand?).

In reality the original proposition could not come about, being in the desert with just a stack of beer. If you survive a plane crash in the desert there is going to be a great deal of hardware and resources from the plane that you could and would use. Besides with aircraft 'beacon' auto-signalling these days the chances of being stranded for more than a day or two are miniscule.

p.s. water is THE priority, calories/food might as well be irrelevent for at last 2, perhaps to 4 weeks. Hunger wears off after c2 days not eating anyway.

[JamesMuenchen]

p.s. water is THE priority, calories/food might as well be irrelevent for at last 2, perhaps to 4 weeks. Hunger wears off after c2 days not eating anyway.

After drinking all that beer, curry would be THE priority. Or at least a kebab.

[UncleEbenezer]

If you survive a plane crash in the desert there is going to be a great deal of hardware and resources from the plane that you could and would use

It was pure good fortune that those barrels had rolled down the hill before all else went up in that huge fireball after the crash!

[vrdiver]

It was pure good fortune that those barrels had rolled down the hill before all else went up in that huge fireball after the crash!

Good fortune? It was the "virtually unlimited" supply of beer that caused the plane to crash in the first place!

VRD