Difficult exam questions

[UncleEbenezer]

I was going to compare the number of Public School Nobel Laureates unfavourably with Public School Senior Cabinet Ministers - but, as Uncle Ebeneezer has noted, the current Cabinet members may be affected by a reaction to Cameron's Cabinet.
So looking back over the 50 years which I selected for Nobel Laureates, I have had a look at the 12 years of Margaret Thatcher's cabinet from 1979 to 1990. I have tallied up the Secretaries of State (including the Chancellor of The Exchequer) who served in that period, and removed duplications (i.e. an individual acting as more than one Secretary of State). Of the 45 which I have identified, 19 attended the Public Schools which I listed. Seven of these attended Eton.
Now if these individuals are a reflection of the brilliance present at these Public Schools, why do we not see a similar performance in Science. 19 out of 45 as Secretaries of State should possibly provide us with around 7 or 8 Science Nobel Laureates.

Here's another thought. Composition of cabinets within your timeframe have been politically sensitive. Old Boy networks might be expected to be more prevalent where they're less visible/sensitive: Sir Humphrey rather than Jim Hacker. I wonder what your exercise would show if you looked at other seats of power, like senior civil service and judiciary posts?

But, as you say, this is no absolute proof of a defective curriculum. It is much more likely to be the old boys' network, and with very few of the old boys having made their fortunes in Science and Engineering, there may be a desire to keep well clear of such a difficult area with its few rewards.

Perhaps also science and engineering have traditionally been more open to the plebs precisely because they're not dominated by such an exclusive "old boy network"? Such questions of course have to look at a long timeframe: what was the situation when today's Nobel Laureates and Potentates were themselves at school, and even their parents and teachers who will have set their expectations in life.

[scotia]

I wonder what your exercise would show if you looked at other seats of power, like senior civil service and judiciary posts?

It's difficult to get statistics, but the following quote on the judiciary is relevant:-
The senior judiciary itself is concerned by the lack of diversity within its ranks with Lord Neuberger, the President of the Supreme Court, pointing out that a combination of recruitment from the Bar and a lack of strategy has resulted in a judiciary that is ‘male, white, educated at public school, and from the upper middle and middle classes’.

Perhaps also science and engineering have traditionally been more open to the plebs precisely because they're not dominated by such an exclusive "old boy network"?

agreed!

Such questions of course have to look at a long timeframe: what was the situation when today's Nobel Laureates and Potentates were themselves at school, and even their parents and teachers who will have set their expectations in life.

In Scotland, at least since the fifties, the state school system was performing well, and parents were keen to see their children educated to a higher level than they had been. And the opportunities were present - not only were my University fees paid by the state, but I also received a maintenance grant. The fellow student on my course who became a Nobel Laureate came from a similar educational background.

[Charlottesquare]

Though at the time it was only relatively recently that they'd dropped the requirement for Latin, thus opening themselves to applications from the plebs.

Interestingly it was my Latin teacher that introduced me to CP Snow - knowing that I intended studying Science at (a Scottish)University. I quite enjoyed learning Latin's rules and structures, somewhat reminiscent of the skills necessary for computer programming. Maybe we should resurrect Latin, before introducing students to "C".
In those days, entrance to a Scottish University was based solely on passes in the Scottish Higher and Lower Certificates - and even a Science student could not obtain entrance without a Higher English and (at least) a Lower foreign language. So there was no problem in Science students passing CP Snow's Shakespeare test.

Edinburgh carried on the O grade foreign language requirement for all subjects until at least 1980, my very poor French was just good enough to get me over the threshold that year; no idea when it was dropped, I suspect later in the 1980s or early 1990s.

They also had the age 17 requirement which lost them my father as he took umbrage at not being eligible at age 16 after his Highers and stayed on at school another year and went to Oxford instead.

[Charlottesquare]

You never know how useful some school subjects can be much later...

At school I took Latin for a (compulsory) year before switching to German as somewhat more useful.
Everyone took five years French. And since it was a bilingual school there was compulsory Welsh.
The three modern languages were inevitably useful in later life as I lived for a time in Wales and worked in France and Germany, but the surprise came later still when I decided to learn early Middle English (EME) properly and elementary Anglo-Saxon. When hitting an unusual word in the standard EME texts such Piers Plowman, I usually just needed to ask myself three questions:
"How would it have been pronounced before the Great Vowel Shift"
"In that context, what might the German word be"
"If I replace a German ending such as "en" by an equivalent English ending such as "s", does it make sense.
So for most of the time there was no need to look at the gloss or dictionary.

And since most works have some religious background, the Latin comes in handy for epigrams which interlard the EME.

My Chaucer approach was to read it aloud in as broad a Scottish accent as I could muster, there is something in the cadence and lilt that seemed to make Chaucer easier to understand.

[Charlottesquare]

I took Latin at my school from 1967 for five years to O level. My Latin master, Mr Dexter (Nobby) was Colin Dexters brother. He was a decent chap but I still hated Latin.

We actual were the first intake to take part in The Nuffield Cambridge Classics Project which aimed to bring the teaching of Latin into the 20th century. It is still running today and you can do distance learning packages.

https://www.dl.cambridgescp.com/home-dl

It is probably the course you have already looked at and dismissed as lightweight but I would not be so quick if I were you. For the first year we went through the, "Caecilius est pater, Matilla est mater" stuff but we progressed onto reading the Aeneid in time.

I thought it was a far more interesting approach than the rote learning of "amo, amas, amat, amamus, amatis, amant" that my brother had to endure.

John

My mastery of Latin was evident after two years of secondary in the 1970s, I came 19th= out of 20.

I think a polite word was had with my parents that my "talents" might be better employed elsewhere and I parted company with Latin for the joys of Economic History for O Grade, much to both my parents distress- my mother's medal for Latin from Edinburgh University, which sits downstairs, being still a constant reminder of their disappointment with my aptitude (and effort).