Mine (and your) Room101 exhibits

[UncleEbenezer]

Not officially, no - but in informal usage (in the US especially), "England" is frequently used to mean the whole of Great Britain. So in some contexts, there's an ambiguity that needs to be looked out for.

Gengulphus

Nothing particularly US about that. I've lived in several European countries and found myself routinely correcting the same error. I guess it might be argued that "England" really does have that second and maybe third meanings we (Brits) all detest, of the whole island or even UK.

In the case of Ireland, the two meanings are pretty clear. Which is why we have disambiguation like "island of" and "republic of".

To put the boot on the other foot, watch a Canadian's reaction to being called American!

[UncleIan]

Hour-long documentaries that include 20 minutes of adverts, 10 minutes telling me what I'm going to see, 10 minutes recapping what I've seen and 10 minutes of the presenter's face telling me how amazing this is.

That reminds me, those documentaries where they talk about two or three separate things, that are related, and keep switching between them. Interleaving multiple "dramatic" threads. I thought a documentary about Venice would be interesting, it was on BBC4 after all, but no, it was clearly done by the people that do all those Big Bigger Biggest Channel 5 documentaries, same voice-over and everything. So we meet the lady fire chief, and her senior member of crew that's retiring, oh, and the hospital is here, here's the ambulance boat shooting off to a possible heart attack, now back to the fire crew where they're off to a sunken boat, happens all the time apparently, meanwhile here's the doctor looking for the house where the heart attack victim might be, but they can't find it, then back to the fire brigade....STOP STOP STOP IT! Jaysus, do you really think we can't cope with a whole half hour where we see how the fire brigade works in Venice, as we talk to people and follow them about a bit? It's a worry.

[panamagold]

To put the boot on the other foot, watch a Canadian's reaction to being called American!

Just add a 'North' to the 'American' and there should be no issue.

[Itsallaguess]

To put the boot on the other foot, watch a Canadian's reaction to being called American!

Just add a 'North' to the 'American' and there should be no issue.

Or perhaps 'Higher American', given recent news....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[todthedog]

Young people using 'sort of' in nearly every sentence.

[melonfool]

That reminds me, those documentaries where they talk about two or three separate things, that are related, and keep switching between them. Interleaving multiple "dramatic" threads. I thought a documentary about Venice would be interesting, it was on BBC4 after all, but no, it was clearly done by the people that do all those Big Bigger Biggest Channel 5 documentaries, same voice-over and everything. So we meet the lady fire chief, and her senior member of crew that's retiring, oh, and the hospital is here, here's the ambulance boat shooting off to a possible heart attack, now back to the fire crew where they're off to a sunken boat, happens all the time apparently, meanwhile here's the doctor looking for the house where the heart attack victim might be, but they can't find it, then back to the fire brigade....STOP STOP STOP IT! Jaysus, do you really think we can't cope with a whole half hour where we see how the fire brigade works in Venice, as we talk to people and follow them about a bit? It's a worry.

What sex was the doctor, you forgot to say?

Mel

[UncleIan]

What sex was the doctor, you forgot to say?

The documentary remarked on gender of the fire chief as she was the only female fire chief in...dunno, italy, can't remember. It's unremarkable what gender the doctor was, or any of the paramedics were, so it was not remarked upon. I mean, I could tell you, but it doesn't matter, that's not the point.

[tjh290633]

To put the boot on the other foot, watch a Canadian's reaction to being called American!

I was with two Peruvians who strongly objected to referring to Americans, when the USA was meant.

Somos todos Americanos! was their comment.

TJH

[brightncheerful]

Viewing BBC1s "Keeping Faith" - a drama set in Wales… - the accompanying music throughout includes a steady low whistling sound which for those (Mrs BnC, for example) with tinnitus is a really turn-off. And for me who is able enjoy the atmosphere without a musical accompaniment.

I would've given up watching after a few minutes of the first episode but Mrs Bnc assures me that after a slow start KF gets a lot better. It has for us: the sound is now on mute, we just gaze at the pictures whilst reading the sub-titles.

Unfortunately, this content via this link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keeping_Faith_(TV_series) - doesn't include the plot.

[Slarti]

Funny, I heard "the island of Ireland" today for the first time, I was like and telling the radio that Ireland is NOT an island. Idiots

In physical geography terms, it is.

Britain is mainland England, Scotland and Wales and the British Isles includes Ireland and all of the other islands on "our" bit of the continental shelf, so The Channel Islands aren't.

Slarti

[Gengulphus]

An American you don't know especially well says "She lived in England" to you about someone he's telling you about. Maybe he knows the difference and is using "England" correctly, maybe he doesn't but she is actually from England, maybe he doesn't and she is actually from Scotland or Wales. As a result, it's not sensible to treat what he's said as wrong, because it probably isn't. But it is sensible to treat what he has said as ambiguous, i.e. it's not clear what he means. In most circumstances, it's best to just let the ambiguity pass - but in some (e.g. she's died and he's asking you about dealing with her estate) it needs to be clarified.

Naughty, naughty, that's moving the goalposts! Of course that's ambiguous, but my response was to your post which said "England" is frequently used to mean the whole of Great Britain.

That is unambiguously wrong.

Naughty, naughty, that's trying to present your words as saying something other than what they did. Specifically:

Not officially, no - but in informal usage (in the US especially), "England" is frequently used to mean the whole of Great Britain. So in some contexts, there's an ambiguity that needs to be looked out for.

Being from the non-English part of Great Britain, I would call that wrong and not ambiguous, and will always correct it where I can.

Such uses of "that" generally refer to the last thing they reasonably can - in this case, it's "in some contexts, there's an ambiguity that needs to be looked out for", not the earlier ""England" is frequently used to mean the whole of Great Britain". I can easily accept given what you've now said that you meant that the earlier phrase was wrong, but it's not what you said.

But actually, I think that ""England" is frequently used to mean the whole of Great Britain" is almost certainly not wrong, but a correct statement of fact when viewed on a worldwide basis, and may well be even on a UK basis. "Great Britain" is not a particularly well-known term, especially outside the UK (*), and the alternative "England, Scotland and Wales" is a bit of a mouthful.

(*) Most of my primary education was in the US, and at its end I certainly knew many country names, including "England" - but not "Great Britain" beyond possibly having sometimes heard my parents use it.

Gengulphus

[Gengulphus]

To put the boot on the other foot, watch a Canadian's reaction to being called American!

I was with two Peruvians who strongly objected to referring to Americans, when the USA was meant.

Somos todos Americanos! was their comment.

Another example is the Netherlands. It's not infrequently called "Holland", but in fact "Holland" is the collective name of North Holland and South Holland, which are just two of its twelve provinces. I think most of the Dutch are basically resigned to that misunderstanding, quite possibly immunised against such things by the term "Dutch", which is basically an anglicised version of "deutsch" - i.e. "German"! But I've certainly seen some react to inappropriate uses of "Holland"...

Gengulphus

[OLTB]

To put the boot on the other foot, watch a Canadian's reaction to being called American!

I was with two Peruvians who strongly objected to referring to Americans, when the USA was meant.

Somos todos Americanos! was their comment.

Another example is the Netherlands. It's not infrequently called "Holland", but in fact "Holland" is the collective name of North Holland and South Holland, which are just two of its twelve provinces. I think most of the Dutch are basically resigned to that misunderstanding, quite possibly immunised against such things by the term "Dutch", which is basically an anglicised version of "deutsch" - i.e. "German"! But I've certainly seen some react to inappropriate uses of "Holland"...

Gengulphus

I did not know that! The Netherlands it is from now on.

[melonfool]

Did you know there is an area of Lincolnshire called South Holland?

Confusing......

Mel

[DiamondEcho]

Did you know there is an area of Lincolnshire called South Holland? Confusing...... Mel

The region S-W of The Wash. Flat as a pancake [like 'Holland'], and used to be the major port area for England<>Holland trade. So it's doesn't surprise me much, when you consider the large number of very old property across that part of the country and coast with clear 17th C/+ Dutch architectural influences, 'Dutch gables', and similar...

[gryffron]

Holland Lincolnshire was largely underwater or swamp, until it was drained by Dutch engineers in the 17th century. Not sure if the thats when it got its name. Is Holland the Dutch for swamp or reclaimed land by any chance?? Might explain the connection.

Gryff

[zico]

After reading

Ireland

so many times in this thread, it suddenly occurred to me (for the first time ever) that it could be read as 'Land of Ire'. Has often seemed quite an appropriate name!

[bungeejumper]

Holland Lincolnshire was largely underwater or swamp, until it was drained by Dutch engineers in the 17th century. Not sure if the thats when it got its name. Is Holland the Dutch for swamp or reclaimed land by any chance??

Well, "hol" is the Dutch word for hollow. Just as "hohl" is in German. So when you've built your dykes you've got a hollow land.

I know quite a lot of Dutch people, and most of them refer to their home country as Holland. At least, they do when they're talking to English people. (When talking to the French they call it les pays bas ("the low countries"), which also seems to evoke the image of the polders.)

Sensibly, we don't call ourselves United Kingdomish. Short words are more snappy and less trouble, even if they're inaccurate.

BJ

[tjh290633]

Wasn't Lincolnshire divided into three parts before local government reform?

Kesteven and Parts of Holland ring a bell. I've forgotten what the third was. Centered on Lincoln, obviously.

TJH

[redsturgeon]

Wasn't Lincolnshire divided into three parts before local government reform?

Kesteven and Parts of Holland ring a bell. I've forgotten what the third was. Centered on Lincoln, obviously.

TJH

Lindsey

John