Thoroughly depressing

[Clitheroekid]

I agree, it's immensely depressing.

I also noticed from the report that "South and Central America suffered the most dramatic decline in vertebrate populations - an 89% loss in vertebrate populations compared with 1970."

This is only likely to get worse with the election of the buffoonish Bolsonaro as president of Brazil, who has declared his intention to develop the rain forests of the Amazon.

But in many ways we can't complain. For a start, we in the first world create the demand for the beef that is produced on the land cleared of rain forests, and in any case it's easy for us, living in the lap of luxury, to criticise people who are very much poorer for exploiting land which does, after all, belong to them.

It therefore seems to me that one partial solution would be for the West to buy up huge tracts of rain forest - thousands of square miles of it - and then preserve it in its pristine condition. The money could come both from governments and also from private foundations such as The Gates Foundation.

If the land was owned by wealthy westerners we could be sure that it would be effectively secured from illegal logging / clearance, as the security would be provided by those westerners rather than having to reply on underpaid and under-resourced local security forces.

This would seem to be a much better use of foreign aid than depositing it in a Swiss bank via some tinpot dictatorship.

[Gengulphus]

It therefore seems to me that one partial solution would be for the West to buy up huge tracts of rain forest - thousands of square miles of it - and then preserve it in its pristine condition. The money could come both from governments and also from private foundations such as The Gates Foundation.

If the land was owned by wealthy westerners we could be sure that it would be effectively secured from illegal logging / clearance, as the security would be provided by those westerners rather than having to reply on underpaid and under-resourced local security forces.

The wealthy westerners concerned would be depicted locally as imperialists intent on denying locals the use of the land they so desperately need, and sooner or later politicians would take advantage of that to get elected on a program of land reform (= confiscation, ostensibly to benefit the electorate but all too often actually to benefit some Swiss bank accounts...).

Any programme of buying up huge tracts of rain forest basically has to get enough locals on board to prevent that happening, and that's very hard to reconcile with literally preserving the rain forest in pristine condition.

Gengulphus

[Pendrainllwyn]

It is depressing. Over the centuries millions of trees have been cut down across the world destroying habitat for some and creating habitat for others. It has gone too far. We are losing bio-diversity at an alarming rate and will regret it. However, much as I dislike the idea of the Amazon rainforest or any other rainforest being cleared I don't see what moral high ground exists when so many of us benefit daily from prior clearances in our own countries. Anyway, why rely on governments, the Gates foundation or others? Doug Tompkins the ex CEO of Patagonia purchased and later donated a million acres of land to the Chilean government which is now national park. He is my kind of hero. OK, few have that kind of capital but many can contribute and make a difference on a smaller scale for example by buying and protecting small woodlands or making charitable donations. Yet many of us, including myself, are often more interested in buying a more expensive car, house, foreign holiday, sending our kids to private school or whatever. I am no saint but I have purchased two pieces of woodland and may well in the years to come buy a third. Two of the best decisions of my life and very good for my spiritual health and hopefully the environment.

Pendrainllwyn

[dionaeamuscipula]

These climate change student protests today, aside from being a bit Grange Hill, are a total waste of time. it's the last day of term and they're our e tiles or does protesting instead of playing Ker-plunk or Buckaroo in the class room.

Look. The planet is knackered. Climate change, runaway global temperature increases, polar ice cap destruction, extreme weather events, human expansion, species extinction are all here and accelerating.

we are doomed. Sorry kids.

Give it a couple of billion years and we can start again. Until then, might as well just party like its...errrr. 2019.

so today, the Chinese might as well build yet another coal fired power station. Me? I'm going to put my teabag in the wrong bin!

Rebel eh?

You are Donald Trump AICM $5

DM

[scotia]

I accept climate change is a reality. I just happen to think it's too late to do anything about it.

Look on the bright side - Lossie Beach fringed with Palm Trees

[gryffron]

Look on the bright side - Lossie Beach fringed with Palm Trees

Ben Nevis beach surely?

[dionaeamuscipula]

I accept climate change is a reality. I just happen to think it's too late to do anything about it.

Look on the bright side - Lossie Beach fringed with Palm Trees

Goodbye 16 oz worsted, hello...

http://www.kiltkouture.com/kilt-girl-bikini-bottom/ (SFW)

DM

[tjh290633]

I would prefer that schools and their pupils be encouraged to make regular measurements of their local weather and carry out their own research into the way in which our weather and climate varies.

There are too many misleading reports, like those claiming that last year was the hottest on record, without making allowance for changes in the surroundings.

I know from my own records that the highest average temperature and the highest temperature reached for a given year relates to the 1980s for the measurements made outside our back door, using the same instrument.

TJH

[melonfool]

I would prefer that schools and their pupils be encouraged to make regular measurements of their local weather and carry out their own research into the way in which our weather and climate varies.

There are too many misleading reports, like those claiming that last year was the hottest on record, without making allowance for changes in the surroundings.

I know from my own records that the highest average temperature and the highest temperature reached for a given year relates to the 1980s for the measurements made outside our back door, using the same instrument.

TJH

Climate change is not about the weather getting hotter.

And schools kids do that research already.

Mel

[doug2500]

we're doomed.

We need to be, there's far, far too many humans. That's the real problem but you never hear it mentioned.

There is no problem to which 'less people' is not the answer IMO. Admittedly knowing what the problem is and knowing how to sort it are different things.

In all other parts of nature a balance is found eventually and I'm sure that sooner or later it will assert itself on our species.

Bit gloomy but I can't see any answer while the human race grows and consumes.

[scrumpyjack]

Yes and the parents will be picking up the little darlings from school in their gas guzzling SUVs or Mercs and taking them back to their nice centrally heated homes. Then they will be eating the out of season fruit flown in from the southern hemisphere and congratulating each other on their 'action', which allowed them to skip lessons.

Yuk

[kiloran]

There is no problem to which 'less people' is not the answer IMO.

[flippant mode on]
I disagree.

Consider the following, for example....

Which is grammatically correct?:

1. Less people
2. Fewer people

"Less people" is not the answer

[flippant mode off]


--kiloran

[Sussexlad]

It's not just the burgeoning population - London apparently adds 100,000/year - but that the Third World will naturally wish to attain the same standards as the West. All we ear from the authorities is the simplistic, 'We must build more houses' with no regard to infrastructure, transport, jobs, food, water, energy, fuel ,waste and pollution. It's difficult to imagine anything other than an environmental disaster. It also amuses me how so many advocate maintaining the natural environment in other countries, whilst sanitising their own homes of anything which moves.

[Lootman]

We need to be, there's far, far too many humans. That's the real problem but you never hear it mentioned.

Well, Sartre mentioned it. He said "hell is other people".

But fewer people would create other problems. The global economy would presumably halve if the population halved, along with the stock markets.

I think the common attitude is rather like that of people who don't vote i.e. my SUV makes a trivial difference on a global scale, so why bother giving it up? Other people should give up theirs but I'm not giving up mine.

I have a green friend who gives me a hard time because I usually fly First class. He said I was consuming excessive resources. I pointed out that a First class seat on many planes takes the cabin space of up to 6 seats in Economy class. With the weight of 6 people, 6 seats, their bags, food and water for them etc., that's probably at least one ton being lifted up to 40,000 feet.

I weight 12 stone and travel with only a carry on.

[scrumpyjack]

Reminds me of the reports of Al Gore's inconvenient truth - that the electricity bill for one of his houses was $30,000

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/GlobalW ... 888&page=1

[PinkDalek]

I think the common attitude is rather like that of people who don't vote i.e. my SUV makes a trivial difference on a global scale, so why bother giving it up? Other people should give up theirs but I'm not giving up mine.

I seem to recall you rarely vote.

[scotia]

Climate change is not about the weather getting hotter.

I agree - as Snorvey will confirm, Tornados have been replaced by Typhoons over Lossie beach

[zico]

If a first class seat on a plane takes the same space as 6 economy seats, then the first class passenger is consuming at least 6 times the resources to get from A to B that each individual economy passenger uses. (Actually it's even more because first class passengers also have extra cabin crew to serve them).

Fortunately I've discovered a carbon-neutral form of air travel as I only travel on airplanes with a spare seat for me, so the plane would be making its journey anyway!

[Itsallaguess]

The global economy would presumably halve if the population halved, along with the stock markets.

Let's face it - the chase for GDP will be our collective undoing, one way or another.....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[redsturgeon]

The numbers are already baked in, global population will peak below 9 billion in 25 years and then decline.

https://www.cnbc.com/id/101018722

John