selling water at events/concerts etc

[didds]

Ive pput this in Beerpig's snug as it doersn;t really seem to fit in DAK, as Im after suggestions/ideas/thoughts, but if admins feel its more appropriate elsewhere please move it

I have a for a few years now orgaisned bars at various events Ive been part of - typically concerts and mnusicals Ive been involved in.

Early on oit became obvious there was a demand for water as a soft drink option aside from OJ and coke - I'll add here that as a theatre bar that lasts between 1 and 5 nights (typically) holding stock is not really meangful / possible because it may be months until the next show and so limited.

So - water. I'll make no bones that5 the bar profit is a huge help towards covering the costs of a show and/or providing profits for distribution to charities that we support. My current dilemma is in the current environment (correctly IMO FWTW!) single use plastic bottles of water are arguably a bit of a no-no. But its been the o9nly sensible way to provide water on the bar thus far. One of the evbnues I help at in particular does not have a source (AIUI) of potable water, so the option of having jugs of water and glasses etc available FoC is not an easy option either.

So I am looking for any suggestions/ideas as to how we can _maybe_ provide water in a method that
* is environmentally friendly
* is feasible in places with no suitable immediately available potable water supply
* preferably can help the bar profits for the afformentioned reasons - its not just pure greed

The immediately upcoming concert in a couple of weeks I am considering not bothering with water sales IF the PTB decide on selling teas and coffees. But that aside...


anyone any suggestions? Im not really trying to start a debate on the pros and cons of single use plastic bottles and the ethcis or whatever of them. more about the practicalities of providing water - or a suitable non sugar abnd universally generally accepted soft drink - but I suspect the thread will drop into a LOST style debate anyway


didds

[didds]

so my initial thoughts:

* provide single use water bottles as before but also provide a dedicated recyclingt bin for them to maximise our chances of recyclingt them (if etc ...)

* tea/coffee provision instead (depends on other parties)

* having containers of water brought from a potable source ie my house! and provided FoC

didds

[paullidd]

Around nine or ten years ago I was working the bar at womad festival at the Rivermead site. As I recall they were dispensing water in biodegradeable cellulose bottles, these looked identical to clear plastic bottles although they did feel slightly more flimsy and wouldn't survive many re-uses before cracking.

They did however seem to be totally fit for purpose and were supposedly environmentally friendly. I'm not sure what happened to this idea since as it seemed to be a good idea.

Not sure how long you would be able to keep these before use either.

Might be worth some on-line investigation.

Paul

[AleisterCrowley]

Not a solution to your particular problem, but the last festival I went to used Frank Water
https://www.beautifuldays.org/frank-water-at-bd2018/

[PinkDalek]

… My current dilemma is in the current environment (correctly IMO FWTW!) single use plastic bottles of water are arguably a bit of a no-no. But its been the o9nly sensible way to provide water on the bar thus far. …

anyone any suggestions?

Glass bottles or would they not be allowed?

Random hit and, ooh look, they say the water is "ethical" https://www.drinksupermarket.com/belu-s ... ass-bottle

Producing the worlds first ethically sourced water and bottles, Belu worked alongside WaterAid to make a wonderfully ethical product, with moent going towards the WaterAid campaign. Bottling their water in clear glass, made from 30% recycled Ethical Glass – the lightest weight glass bottle available for mineral water in the UK, they have reduced their carbon footprnt, and found a way to supply the ideal product for the environmental conscious. Their still water in Clear class is bottled at Belu source in Powys. Best Served Chilled. 75cl Clear Glass Bottles

They need to proof read their blurb.

330ml here https://www.drinksupermarket.com/belu-s ... ass-bottle but Out of stock

[didds]

Glass bottles or would they not be allowed?

I really wouldn;t know - though that sounds a good call - but are glass bottles "more" recyclable than plastic single use ones?

didds

[didds]

as in... if we go down the glsass bottles to be recycled route versus plastic bottles to be recycled route, at the end of the day are glass bottles actually "better" for recycling purposes anyway?

100 google hits oin the topic seems to suggest 100 different answers!

didds

[Rhyd6]

I think the ordinary plastic bottles with prominent recycling bin should satisfy everyone. At our annual duck race, this is the route we went down because we couldn't source anything else that wasn't extremely expensive or totally impractical. We just put up several large notices asking everyone to be aware of the recycling bins and to do their bit towards the environment.

R6

[AndyPandy]

Around nine or ten years ago I was working the bar at womad festival at the Rivermead site. As I recall they were dispensing water in biodegradeable cellulose bottles, these looked identical to clear plastic bottles although they did feel slightly more flimsy and wouldn't survive many re-uses before cracking.

About 20 years before that I was part of the medical team there. The Rave tent had a chill room and in there was a dustbin full of water for people to help themselves and refill bottles. Once you've seen a couple of party goers dunk their heads, I felt reassured that we had our own, separate catering facilities (and loo).


If you normally charge, say, £1 for a bottle of water, could you charge, say £1.50 for the bottle of water. 50p goes to a separate jar. Returned bottles are refunded 50p and put into a recycling bin. Any cash left over is donated to Water Aid or similar. Put signage up to that effect. You would still have to judge the amount of water to buy based on previous gigs, but if it runs out, it runs out. Alternatively, Gross margin is high enough on water that a few left over won't make too much difference to the bottom line.

[gryffron]

It's one of those difficult problems isn't it.

It takes an enormous amount of energy to recycle glass vs plastic. So glass bottles aren't necessarily "better" than plastic bottles. It's just that glass is normally easier to recycle, cos there's only one type, just different colours. It only has to be sorted by colour, which machines can do.

The usual problem with recycling plastic is cleaning it and sorting all the different types. If you can collect a large quantity of single source clean plastic (like empty water bottles) you can even get paid for it!

I'm not even convinced that degradable bottles are "better" than recyclable ones. The former still have to go to landfill. The latter can be recycled, and provided they are, are probably better for the environment.

Non degradable bottles are only a problem if they are NOT recycled. So I concur that ordinary bottles and prominent recycle bins are the certainly the easiest and probably "best" solution.

Gryff

[Gengulphus]

If you normally charge, say, £1 for a bottle of water, could you charge, say £1.50 for the bottle of water. 50p goes to a separate jar. Returned bottles are refunded 50p and put into a recycling bin. Any cash left over is donated to Water Aid or similar. Put signage up to that effect. You would still have to judge the amount of water to buy based on previous gigs, but if it runs out, it runs out. Alternatively, Gross margin is high enough on water that a few left over won't make too much difference to the bottom line.

I don't want to pour cold water on the idea :-), but I predict that approach will lead to a lot more bottles being 'returned' than one sold in the first place!

Gengulphus

[AndyPandy]

If you normally charge, say, £1 for a bottle of water, could you charge, say £1.50 for the bottle of water. 50p goes to a separate jar. Returned bottles are refunded 50p and put into a recycling bin. Any cash left over is donated to Water Aid or similar. Put signage up to that effect. You would still have to judge the amount of water to buy based on previous gigs, but if it runs out, it runs out. Alternatively, Gross margin is high enough on water that a few left over won't make too much difference to the bottom line.

I don't want to pour cold water on the idea :-), but I predict that approach will lead to a lot more bottles being 'returned' than one sold in the first place!

Gengulphus

WOMAD with multiple vendors, yes. Small concerts/events of the type Didds is talking about where Didds has a monopoly and is only selling one brand of water should be less of a problem. Didds could always have printed some personalised labels at minimal cost and stick one to each bottle (cheap advertising for Didds or third party advertising income, too). No label, no refund. Don't even need to be tamper-proof. If they affect the recyclability of the bottles, then perhaps an indelible ink stamp for the lid, instead....

[AF62]

How about canned water as the aluminium cans are easy to recycle and less dangerous than glass
- https://packagingeurope.com/tesco-inves ... ned-water/

[tjh290633]

It takes an enormous amount of energy to recycle glass vs plastic. So glass bottles aren't necessarily "better" than plastic bottles. It's just that glass is normally easier to recycle, cos there's only one type, just different colours. It only has to be sorted by colour, which machines can do.
Gryff

Although it takes a lot of energy to melt glass from recycling, it takes less energy that using raw materials, Roughly 1.8MBtu/ton for cullet and 2.2MBtu/ton from raw materials. Additionally you save the energy used in extracting or manufacturing the raw materials and the cost of transporting them to site.

The glass industry knows this well, and that is why there was such a big move to bottle banks, years ago.

Virtually all the green glass in the UK is made from recycled glass.

TJH

[scotia]

Virtually all the green glass in the UK is made from recycled glass.
TJH

And on their final trip they are made into green Buckfast bottles.
Have you yet met a Buckfast drinker who recycles their bottles?
I will admit, the current yobs in our village now toss the empty Buckfast bottles (whole) into our community garden. The previous generations used to smash them first. I suppose its progress, although I wish I could arrange an air drop of the empties on top of Buckfast Abbey.

[tjh290633]

I suspect that is your local drunks you should be sending elsewhere. The bottles are not the problem, the people who drink them are.

TJH

[didds]

Buckfast isn't actually made at the abbey any longer - certainly not the commercial stuff anyway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckfast_ ... s_response

[UncleEbenezer]

I suspect that is your local drunks you should be sending elsewhere. The bottles are not the problem, the people who drink them are.

TJH

Indeed. The Jocks export plenty of booze to us. I'll take some of that Islay peat as fair exchange for the stuff they import.