Stupid Woman

[EssDeeAitch]

Late to this and not a fan of Corbyn but, despite what some experts appear to be saying, I see his lips moving to say "people", after the jeering starts. Am I the only one on here who doesn't see "woman"?

Seems so. Watched it with my left leaning metropolitan son (neutralising my anti Corbyn bias) and we agreed "stupid woman" was the comment.

[UncleEbenezer]

Late to this and not a fan of Corbyn but, despite what some experts appear to be saying, I see his lips moving to say "people", after the jeering starts. Am I the only one on here who doesn't see "woman"?

I don't see anything: I've only heard the incident reported. And since he wasn't even speaking the thought out loud (and the whole thing was probably subconscious), the actual words of his Thought Crime should be supremely irrelevant. Either thought seems entirely appropriate to the occasion as described.

The extraordinary hatred for him displayed by some on this thread probably actually helps him, in much the same way as idiot BBC comedians helped Farage when they started calling him racist.

The aspect of the story that is amusing is that it is indeed very probably his own petard on which he was hoisted. But I don't know that: I can only infer from his lefty background that there is a high likelihood of it. Yet I've seen little evidence to support the supposition since I've been aware of him.

[redsturgeon]

Late to this and not a fan of Corbyn but, despite what some experts appear to be saying, I see his lips moving to say "people", after the jeering starts. Am I the only one on here who doesn't see "woman"?

I can see either "people" or "woman", I am not a trained lip reader though and am amazed at those here who can assert with complete certainty that he said "woman".

Strangely it seems to be some of the same people who said that Kavanagh should be given the benefit of the doubt for possible crimes against a woman that may have amounted to a little more than calling her "stupid".

Could there be a little political bias on display? Surely not?

John

[GoSeigen]

Which reminds me. Skinner was reported to have said of the Tories sitting opposite him that half of them were crooks.

That quip is even older than Dennis Skinner:

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/04/1 ... ote-8733-1


GS

[Mike88]

Some posters on here don't get the main point which is that he lied. It's nothing to do with what he said. Had he have owned up immediately the issue would be dead. I'm surprised that any poster can see Corbyn mouthed "people" when every professional lip reader consulted say "woman" as the "W" is very easy to detect as is a "P" which require very different mouth actions.

[GoSeigen]

Late to this and not a fan of Corbyn but, despite what some experts appear to be saying, I see his lips moving to say "people", after the jeering starts. Am I the only one on here who doesn't see "woman"?

You're not the only one, but sadly that makes us a pair of liars.

GS

[EssDeeAitch]

Late to this and not a fan of Corbyn but, despite what some experts appear to be saying, I see his lips moving to say "people", after the jeering starts. Am I the only one on here who doesn't see "woman"?

I don't see anything: I've only heard the incident reported. And since he wasn't even speaking the thought out loud (and the whole thing was probably subconscious), the actual words of his Thought Crime should be supremely irrelevant. Either thought seems entirely appropriate to the occasion as described.

But he did say "stupid woman" or "stupid person" (I think he definitely said woman), it wasn't just a thought, he spoke.

[redsturgeon]

Late to this and not a fan of Corbyn but, despite what some experts appear to be saying, I see his lips moving to say "people", after the jeering starts. Am I the only one on here who doesn't see "woman"?

I don't see anything: I've only heard the incident reported. And since he wasn't even speaking the thought out loud (and the whole thing was probably subconscious), the actual words of his Thought Crime should be supremely irrelevant. Either thought seems entirely appropriate to the occasion as described.

But he did say "stupid woman" or "stupid person" (I think he definitely said woman), it wasn't just a thought, he spoke.

Did anyone actually hear the words he spoke?

If a tree falls in the forest...

John

[bungeejumper]

Did anyone actually hear the words he spoke?

If a tree falls in the forest...

TBH, I'm having trouble taking all this seriously. We pay our politicians a lot of money to have tougher skins than this, and in many countries that sort of thing wouldn't turn a hair. Why, in America they'd probably tell the Prime Minister to "grow a pair".

BJ

[UncleEbenezer]

"W" is very easy to detect as is a "P" which require very different mouth actions.

Is it time to don an Expert hat here?

In the course of my post-doc research in computer speech recognition (as well as in voice training as a singer), I learned a lot about how you articulate different sounds (it's pretty fundamental to teaching a computer that we have a clear picture of the problem it's to solve). There is indeed a difference between an articulated P and a W, though it's quite subtle. There's a bigger difference between "Pe" and "Wo", as the mouth opens for the brighter vowel.

But if we could rely on that, computer speech recognition would've been a solved problem back when I was working on it in the early '90s. The fact is, it's much harder because people don't in practice articulate so clearly. Those syllables are not clearly distinct in real-life speech, let alone in subconsciously-muttered non-speech.

Lip-reading for the deaf works because the reader has a lot more context to help disambiguate, and because the speaker is making the effort to speak clearly. And because the listener is prepared to ignore an utterly unimportant ambiguity. Lip-reading for espionage uses a great deal more effort to get the gist of something, but is still less than reliable.

What is always easy to see is what confirms a strongly-held prejudice.

As for Corbyn, could he have got away with just calling out the Thought Police, and saying "my unspoken thoughts are my business, not yours"? That could've provoked a much more interesting debate, and shone a light on totalitarians in both parties.

p.s. The stupid woman of this thread title is still the one who described it as a man "shouting down" a woman.

[PinkDalek]

Late to this and not a fan of Corbyn but, despite what some experts appear to be saying, I see his lips moving to say "people", after the jeering starts. Am I the only one on here who doesn't see "woman"?

I don't see anything: I've only heard the incident reported. ...

I thought there was a "thing" nowadays about "experts". That's why I took a look myself at the recording in the form of DYOR. Why not do likewise?

Could there be a little political bias on display? Surely not?

Reversing that from me, only ever having voted for one party, as you know, and it doesn't commence with an "L". Except in a local election when I voted for SLAG - for Save London Action Group - purely down to the short version!

Some posters on here don't get the main point which is that he lied. It's nothing to do with what he said. Had he have owned up immediately the issue would be dead. I'm surprised that any poster can see Corbyn mouthed "people" when every professional lip reader consulted say "woman" as the "W" is very easy to detect as is a "P" which require very different mouth actions.

Only if he lied and surely it has everything to do with what he mouthed!

I'm only an amateur lip-reader but, as previously, I see a "P" which, as you say, requires a different lip movement.

Happy to be found incorrect though, I'm only saying what I saw and may look again and change my mind. The others where I am both see "W", so what do I know?

[Howyoudoin]

Hat tip to the newspaper cartoonist Matt for making light of the subject . . . .

https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=5C989816


HYD

[Bminusrob]

All I want for Christmas is an edited video of the Mike Soutar interview (https://www.dailystar.co.uk/showbiz-tv/ ... mazon-page) with Daniel replaced by Jeremy Corbyn. Even better if Mike Soutar could conduct the interview for real with JC.

[GeoffF100]

It is Parliament. Perhaps they should have had a vote on it. Is Teresa May a stupid woman? Corbyn might have won.

[csearle]

Late to this and not a fan of Corbyn but, despite what some experts appear to be saying, I see his lips moving to say "people", after the jeering starts. Am I the only one on here who doesn't see "woman"?

Just looked at it and tried hearing both versions whilst looking at his face. Both versions seemed to fit. I think it is close enough for me personally to say I'm not sure. I would defer to lip-readers (preferably ones with no great interest in UK politics). C.

[melonfool]

... is surely an entirely valid thought, from time to time.

We've been brought up not to speak our thoughts when they'd be inappropriate. But the Thought Police who would penalise us for thinking them: that's surely a totalitarian concept associated with the Loony Left?

Does Corbyn have history supporting the Thought Police? As in, for example, denying a platform to anyone whose views they dislike? Or creating new taboos on certain words or phrases? If so it is perhaps poetic justice that he's now being hauled over the coals for (presumably inadvertently) mouthing a thought. But I confess I don't know his history well enough to say: I never even heard of him until his name popped up as a candidate for Labour leader.

Today's real stupid woman (I didn't catch her name) was talking on the World at One today, where she was spouting a very BBC-orthodox line about this being an example of misogynistic men shouting women down. Erm ... so now a mere unspoken thought can shout someone down??? Stupid woman, or stupid interviewer for letting the nonsense pass unchallenged? 'Cos the alternative to stupid is a real conspiracy: the one that persistently demonises men with - among other things - stories of how we shout down women.

This post makes zero sense. If you SAY something (which he did) and are taken to task for it, then it's not the THOUGHT police, is it? It's the spoken word police.

I have no idea what he said, I don't think TM is stupid (I think she's a lot of things, many of them negative but I don't think she is stupid) and I don't see anything wrong with describing a woman as a woman - if he'd said stupid cow, or bitch or something then yes, problem.

If he has lied - that is a problem.

But, to me, the wider problem is the ridiculous way all our MPs behave in Parliament, yelling and baying, point scoring, calling names, it's totally unacceptable and I can't understand how it is allowed to continue.

Mel

[melonfool]

As for Corbyn, could he have got away with just calling out the Thought Police, and saying "my unspoken thoughts are my business, not yours"? That could've provoked a much more interesting debate, and shone a light on totalitarians in both parties.

If he can't keep a thought in his head without forming it on his lips then he must be some kind of imbecile.

Clearly, it was more than a 'thought', it was something he said, people near him probably actually heard what he said.

Mel

[AndyPandy]

Which reminds me. Skinner was reported to have said of the Tories sitting opposite him that half of them were crooks.

That quip is even older than Dennis Skinner:

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/04/1 ... ote-8733-1
GS

Bit like the apocryphal Job reference "Has been known to come to work drunk". After being challenged, it was rewritten to read "Has been know to come to work sober".

[GoSeigen]

If he can't keep a thought in his head without forming it on his lips then he must be some kind of imbecile.

Mel

OMG hate to think what you'd make of my DW then!



GS