Forgive or Banish

[melonfool]

I kind of reckon if someone can treat you really badly, then they don't value your friendship, so why should you value theirs?

I really do have form for just cutting people off, I'm exceptionally good at it! I'm not sure it's 100% healthy but I also won't be messed with or walked over, I expect a level of treatment from people that is not overly high or anything.

Having said that - sometimes the anger just wears off I guess. I'm in touch with a few exes, one of whom was a serial cheat but is now a good friend (nice guy as long you don't expect him not to shag your mate when you're pregnant with his child), I didn't speak to my sister for some years after she started bullying me into things I didn't want to do, and I've just last year entered an entente cordiale with the parentals after a 12 year hiatus. But they have learnt how to behave after so long on the naughty step so things are pretty civil now.

I have have no truck with cheating in relationships and have fallen out with friends when I have found they have cheated on their partners, even though their partners are nothing to do with me. My brother in law cheated on my sister and other than cool cordiality when in enforced situations, I am sure I will never speak to him again.

Then there is my brother and a cousin, both of whom I strongly dislike and both of whom, over many years, have tried really hard to bad mouth me - but as there isn't much to bad mouth about and the people I care about don't take any notice, it doesn't bother me. I have no reason to speak to my brother (until the parentals die, sadly he is executor).

But the answer to the question is that it really does depend on the circumstances but for me, it would normally fall on the side of ending the friendship.

Mel

[Stonge]

So you're not a believer in forgiving and are not to bothered about going to Heaven ?

forgive is a misunderstood concept

[richlist]

Please share your understanding of the concept with us.

[Howyoudoin]

So you're not a believer in forgiving and are not to bothered about going to Heaven ?

Let's look at this from another angle.

What was the point of God giving us the Ten Commandments if he's just going to forgive whatever we do anyway?

HYD

[bungeejumper]

So Moses comes down from Mount Sinai, and he says to the waiting throng:

"My people, I bring you good news, and also some bad news."

"The good news is, I got him down to ten. The bad news is, adultery's still in there."

BJ

[brightncheerful]

Forgive or banish?

I prefer forgive and banish.

Whenever I do something I shouldn't have or someone (including others) does something to me that I consider harmful to me, I forgive myself.

Whenever it is something I've done, I forgive myself for not being perfect, in not having met the high standards I set myself in my behaviour towards others and conduct generally.

Whether it's something someone (including others) else has done, I forgive myself also for not being perfect, in having ignored trusting my intuition and allowed myself to be on the receiving end of a standard of behaviour that is beneath me. I press 'delete' and banish (rid myself of) the tangible culprit. I then dwell on the advantage to my self-development in having had the experience and having identified the benefit I learn more about myself.

Over the years I have found that my way of going about such things has held me in good stead. It has enhanced my ability to be discerning. It has strengthened my trust in intuition, not just in emergencies but all the time as a matter of course. It enables me to take the ups-and-downs in my stride and if I should occasionally become unstuck in times of change deal with any upsets quickly and progress constructively.

Something I have never been any good at let alone prone to is outrage. As for anger management, I delegate anger to others: they are much better at angry and indignant than I could ever be.

[Howyoudoin]

Forgive or banish?

I prefer forgive and banish.

Whenever I do something I shouldn't have or someone (including others) does something to me that I consider harmful to me, I forgive myself.

Whenever it is something I've done, I forgive myself for not being perfect, in not having met the high standards I set myself in my behaviour towards others and conduct generally.

Whether it's something someone (including others) else has done, I forgive myself also for not being perfect, in having ignored trusting my intuition and allowed myself to be on the receiving end of a standard of behaviour that is beneath me. I press 'delete' and banish (rid myself of) the tangible culprit. I then dwell on the advantage to my self-development in having had the experience and having identified the benefit I learn more about myself.

As baffling as ever. Unless i've misunderstood, you seem to be saying 'I always forgive myself for anything bad I do to others but I never forgive others for anything bad they do to me'.

Priceless. Don't ever change BnC, don't ever change.

HYD

[bungeejumper]

As baffling as ever. Unless i've misunderstood, you seem to be saying 'I always forgive myself for anything bad I do to others but I never forgive others for anything bad they do to me'.

Priceless. Don't ever change BnC, don't ever change.

LOL, HYD, I read it the same way as you.

OTOH, and going slightly off-topic (apologies), I do find that self-forgiveness can be a good way of dealing with those moments when I've seriously embarrassed myself. For instance, by forgetting somebody's kid's name (yes, age does that kind of thing to you...), or by saying something entirely thoughtless that everyone will have quickly forgotten, but which will hang on my conscience for weeks. Or, indeed, by posting something pretty flippant and rubbish on the Lemonfool forum....?

There was a time when I'd have reproached myself for months about such toe-curling errors. (I was that kind of a kid.) Eventually, I learned how to seriously hate myself for thirty/sixty minutes and then get over it, so as to clear the brain for other more important stuff. I expect you can read that sort of advice in self-improvement books, not that I've ever bought one. I mean, why would I want to improve on my own magnificent personality?

None of this applies WRT serious misdemeanours, by myself or by others. Donald Trump is a warning to everybody about where too much self-forgiveness can lead you. Not to mention, too much forgiveness from others.

BJ

[brightncheerful]

Unless i've misunderstood, you seem to be saying 'I always forgive myself for anything bad I do to others but I never forgive others for anything bad they do to me'.

You have misunderstood. I never forgive others because to my way of thinking that would be tantamount to expressing my disapproval of their behaviour when actually how they want to behave is nothing to do with me, but only to do with them.

Civilised society, through law and order, requires us to behave towards others as we would behave ourselves. On the principle of respecting others for who they are, not whom we want or expect them to be, to admonish or banish someone because of something they said or did which was ok as far as they are concerned is influence. A civilised society expects a minimum standard of behaviour but that is all. It doesn't give us as individuals any right to impose our views on others. We can persuade, we can try to convince, we can do what we can to influence, but ultimately it is up to the individual concerned.

[Howyoudoin]

Unless i've misunderstood, you seem to be saying 'I always forgive myself for anything bad I do to others but I never forgive others for anything bad they do to me'.

You have misunderstood. I never forgive others because to my way of thinking that would be tantamount to expressing my disapproval of their behaviour when actually how they want to behave is nothing to do with me, but only to do with them.

Civilised society, through law and order, requires us to behave towards others as we would behave ourselves. On the principle of respecting others for who they are, not whom we want or expect them to be, to admonish or banish someone because of something they said or did which was ok as far as they are concerned is influence. A civilised society expects a minimum standard of behaviour but that is all. It doesn't give us as individuals any right to impose our views on others. We can persuade, we can try to convince, we can do what we can to influence, but ultimately it is up to the individual concerned.

Nope, still don't see how I've misunderstood.

However, it doesn't bother me enough to want another explanation so i'll let it go.

HYD

[melonfool]

OTOH, and going slightly off-topic (apologies), I do find that self-forgiveness can be a good way of dealing with those moments when I've seriously embarrassed myself. For instance, by forgetting somebody's kid's name (yes, age does that kind of thing to you...), or by saying something entirely thoughtless that everyone will have quickly forgotten, but which will hang on my conscience for weeks. Or, indeed, by posting something pretty flippant and rubbish on the Lemonfool forum....?

BJ

Forgetting someone's kid's name is seriously embarrassing? Oh. I do this practically every day. Some days I forget my own sibling's name. Some days I'm hard pressed to remember my own.

I think calling your lover by your ex's name is pretty embarrassing, but even that I have managed to style out!

Mel

[PinkDalek]

I think calling your lover by your ex's name is pretty embarrassing, but even that I have managed to style out!

"Style out" - is that a phrase from overseas?

I've been accused of naming another in my sleep, some years back, which was forgiven, but it took a few days for such forgiveness when my first words one morning, on opening my eyes, was "Who are you?".

[melonfool]

I think calling your lover by your ex's name is pretty embarrassing, but even that I have managed to style out!

"Style out" - is that a phrase from overseas?

I've been accused of naming another in my sleep, some years back, which was forgiven, but it took a few days for such forgiveness when my first words one morning, on opening my eyes, was "Who are you?".

Modern vernacular m'lud:

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define. ... 20it%20out

Mel

[Howyoudoin]

Forgive.
Always- even if they are not sorry.
Let it go.

Sorry to play Devil's Advocate here but some of the answers beggar belief.

BP - If you and your best friend were having a few jars in the Snug and he suddenly pulled a large knife out of his pocket, killed your dog, and said 'what do you think of that then?', would your answer above still be the same?

Apologies for an extreme example but I relly don't think you have thought this through with your 'catch all' response above.

Perhaps I should've said what actually happened for me to banish my best friend of 30 years but I can confirm that it was a huge betrayal rather than just 'I forgot your brother's name' and I honestly thought that when I confronted him with it, there would either be a huge fight, or he would collapse in tears. He did neither. Just denied it, turned away and wasn't able to look me in the eye.

I didn't press it. I knew he was lying. I just said, 'I'm sorry but I don't believe you', and walked out of the pub. 30 years of friendship up in smoke.

HYD

[melonfool]

When my best friend shagged my boyfriend (while I was pregnant), which I didn't find out about until about three years later, I felt more let down by her than by him. You expect more from friends.

Funnily enough I found out from some other woman he was knobbing, who told me in a fit of pique that he hadn't yet left me for her!

I didn't speak to the friend for many years. Sweetly (add dripping sarcasm) she 'kept in touch' with him all those years to make sure I was alright. We did make up again eventually and were friends for a while, now we're more distant, due to different lives and drifting apart.

But, he's now a good mate!

Mel

[ReformedCharacter]

'knobbing'

It's some sort of rural pastime, I think.

RC

[PinkDalek]

'knobbing'

It's some sort of rural pastime, I think.

RC

Yes, it involves churned milk, à la Brando.

[UncleIan]

Perhaps I should've said what actually happened for me to banish my best friend of 30 years but I can confirm that it was a huge betrayal rather than just 'I forgot your brother's name' and I honestly thought that when I confronted him with it, there would either be a huge fight, or he would collapse in tears. He did neither. Just denied it, turned away and wasn't able to look me in the eye.

I didn't press it. I knew he was lying. I just said, 'I'm sorry but I don't believe you', and walked out of the pub. 30 years of friendship up in smoke.

Can I file this under "another wedding drama"?

I think, though it depends of course, and I don't think I've ever had that sort of decision thrust upon me, so who really knows, but maybe if it had happened a long time in the past, or to exes rather than currents, then I'd be more inclined to let it go, as it's all water under the bridge and what does it matter now. It might take me a bit of time to come to terms with it, to work through the 7 stages of grief to acceptance, then again, I might never make it past anger. Who knows? Hope I never have to find out.

[GoSeigen]

a bit like accidentally farting on a leather chair then shifting your backside around to make folk think it was the chair and not you.

I guess.

Good analogy but understates the cringe level of my worst hole-digging effort: local tennis club... my young kids' friends habitually attend with their mother and pet dog. One week they arrive with an older-looking gentleman: "Hello, you must be the grandfather!" say I jocularly. "Umm, I'm Harry's father" says he; whereupon instead of shrinking under the armchairs I address the dog -- yes the dog! -- with "Oh you've brought your granddad today!" which achieved precisely the opposite of the intended effect of not looking like a complete tit...

Can still feel my cheeks burning...



GS

[melonfool]

a bit like accidentally farting on a leather chair then shifting your backside around to make folk think it was the chair and not you.

I guess.

Good analogy but understates the cringe level of my worst hole-digging effort: local tennis club... my young kids' friends habitually attend with their mother and pet dog. One week they arrive with an older-looking gentleman: "Hello, you must be the grandfather!" say I jocularly. "Umm, I'm Harry's father" says he; whereupon instead of shrinking under the armchairs I address the dog -- yes the dog! -- with "Oh you've brought your granddad today!" which achieved precisely the opposite of the intended effect of not looking like a complete tit...

Can still feel my cheeks burning...



GS

Reckon I can top that.....

.....I was recruiting (about ten years ago) for an HR person in my team. One of the Ops Directors had his office near the interview room, and frequently passed comment on the comeliness of the applicants. He went as far as to ask me to ensure I recruited someone 'hot'.

I recruited the best person for the job and obviously sternly told him all along this would be the outcome.

Cue the day she arrived, he came into my office, I say "oh, meet Flossie, new HR person. See, I told you I wouldn't recruit the hot one!"

Sigh.....

He still reminds me of it. He said he wished *he* had been able to disappear, let alone me.

Mel