The Lemon Fool

If you found out that your best friend of many, many, years had been lying to you and when you confronted them over this, they denied it in the face of overwhelming evidence and refused to apologise, would you:

Forgive.
Always- even if they are not sorry.
Let it go.

Howyoudoin wrote:If you found out that your best friend of many, many, years had been lying to you and when you confronted them over this, they denied it in the face of overwhelming evidence and refused to apologise, would you:

Depends on the circumstances, If you caught your best friend in bed with your wife, what would you do?

It depends entirely on the circumstances and how much I valued the friendship e.g. was the lie that he had a secret drinking or gambling problem in which case I'd try to help. Or was it that he was having a relationship with your teenage daughter in which case I would not forgive.

Entirely dependent on circumstances

Clariman wrote:It depends entirely on the circumstances and how much I valued the friendship e.g. was the lie that he had a secret drinking or gambling problem in which case I'd try to help. Or was it that he was having a relationship with your teenage daughter in which case I would not forgive.

Entirely dependent on circumstances

My sentiment exactly.

Clariman wrote:It depends entirely on the circumstances and how much I valued the friendship e.g. was the lie that he had a secret drinking or gambling problem in which case I'd try to help. Or was it that he was having a relationship with your teenage daughter in which case I would not forgive.

Entirely dependent on circumstances

Comparable to the latter rather than the former.

Had to make the tough decision to banish.

HYD

nimnarb wrote:

Howyoudoin wrote:If you found out that your best friend of many, many, years had been lying to you and when you confronted them over this, they denied it in the face of overwhelming evidence and refused to apologise, would you:

Depends on the circumstances, If you caught your best friend in bed with your wife, what would you do?

After wiping the tears of laughter from my eyes and getting a bottle of champagne, probably enquire which drugs he'd used!

Steve

A politician's wife writes:

"Dear Abbie, I have recently learned from the MSM that my most trusted companion in life has been lying to me for the last twenty years about his repeated dalliances with other women. I have accosted him repeatedly about the late nights he spends in the office with his 'business associates', but he has invariably assured me that he was in fact innocently lying on the couch all the time, eating cheeseburgers and watching Fox TV.

It has now become clear, however, that a different kind of foxes have been holding my husband's attention. And a bill has just arrived from Russia for a new mattress, which he says is nothing to do with him, and he gets strangely agitated at the mention of somebody called Daniels, who I always thought was just some kind of a corny magician? It's all beginning to make sense.

He continues to deny everything, of course. But will I banish him for his lying? Not just yet, sweetie. The billion dollar book contract has been signed, and the film and musical rights are nearly ready to go. I can wait.

M"

I'm on the banish side...
My friend for 40+ years moved to Australia with his wife and family. I lent them a few thousand as a bridging loan while they sold the UK house, which wife repaid promptly.
Friend got in touch again a year or so later - "We need your help again" - so I lent 'them' £4k in total, just until things improved.
There were a few tiny repayments (<£100 total) and then nothing. Got in touch with his wife on Facebook and turns out she didn't know anything about the later loans and had chucked him out of the house ...
I kept politely asking him for repayment via Facebook messenger, and it was always 'next month when I'm sorted out' blah blah
Eventually he unfriended me, and no contact since.
As far as I'm concerned he no longer exists. If he asked for help again I'd happily ignore him even if he were starving.

Never give anyone a second chance, they'll just abuse you

That's the diplomatic way of putting it.

I would put him out, but with a shovel

So you're not a believer in forgiving and are not to bothered about going to Heaven ?

The people I have the greatest admiration for are those that can rise above everyone else and forgive..... whatever the situation.
There have been quite a few in the news over recent years......I'm not sure if I could follow their lead......it's probably difficult to know for sure until you're put in that situation.

richlist wrote:So you're not a believer in forgiving and are not to bothered about going to Heaven ?

Heaven? Why bring religion into it? Darwin's good enough for me. Without honesty, the species won't prosper and may not survive.

The immediate point, surely, is that humans sometimes need reminding that their actions can bring harmful consequences for others, and that some of those consequences are likely to come back and bite them on the marshmallows. Without that elementary negative feedback, some people will never learn anything and the world will be a poorer place.

I'm pretty forgiving, and I do it when I can, but I really can't stand serial liars. (And I won't tolerate sexual infidelity when it's too close to me. As my first wife found out.) There, is that good enough for you?

BJ

No, I don't think it is good enough......we can all do better, even you. Your inability to forgive definitely needs to be worked on but, I would defend the freedom you have to take that view.

richlist wrote:So you're not a believer in forgiving and are not to bothered about going to Heaven ?
.

Well, I'm an atheist so doesn't really apply ... I do have a moral code though. As BJ points out, if you let people get away with bad behaviour indefinitely they will just carry on and probably get worse, harming lots of other people along the way.
I may forgive my ex-friend eventually - but until I get my money back he's persona non grata.
I am generally a quite generous and trusting person, but got sick of a few individuals taking advantage, so taking inspiration from Alice Cooper I decided it was "No More Mr Nice Guy"
These days it's ONE strike and you're out. For good.

richlist wrote:No, I don't think it is good enough......we can all do better, even you. Your inability to forgive definitely needs to be worked on but, I would defend the freedom you have to take that view.

OK Richlist(let's test your name). I need 25K(not Nigerian by the way) Please send it to me and when I don't pay you back, I know that I have your forgiveness...Actually can we make this a monthly payment?

I think forgiveness has to be linked to genuine and believable expressions of remorse and commitment to change. Can't have one without the other.

--kiloran

Howyoudoin wrote:

Clariman wrote:It depends entirely on the circumstances and how much I valued the friendship e.g. was the lie that he had a secret drinking or gambling problem in which case I'd try to help. Or was it that he was having a relationship with your teenage daughter in which case I would not forgive.

Entirely dependent on circumstances

Comparable to the latter rather than the former.

Had to make the tough decision to banish.

HYD

Based on this message following up on your first post you have made the correct decision.

The way I judge these decisions is what advice would you give to another friend or someone anonymous on the Internet

I refer you, sirs, to Deuteronomy Chapter 23, Verse 1:

https://biblia.com/bible/Deuteronomy23.1

It could have been worse, then. Banishment suddenly seems like quite a mild response.

BJ

This thread reminds me of the oft-heard phrase 'Unconditional love', which I've always thought of as a flawed concept, which can actually invite abuse.

Everyone deserves a second chance, just not from me.

I have never made anybody do wrong to me, it was their choice to do so.