Skinny Genes

[ReformedCharacter]

No, I don't think there's a contradiction. Obesity obviously is caused by eating more calories than those burnt but I'm suggesting that the cause of eating too much is mainly genetic.


RC

Except that's not obviously what causes obesity, is it?

How about lipodema, for example? Many, many women think they are obese, get all the flack that comes with that and it turns out it's lipodema. Nothing to do with calorie intake. They diet and diet and no change.

It's also been shown that menopause and hormones in general have a massive effect on women's ability to manage their weight. Men have fewer issues in this area.

We simply don't know enough and we don't know what we don't know. But there are way too many cases of people who, given their calorie intake, should be overweight and are not, and the opposite.

I really cannot buy that the 'cause of eating too much is genetic' - not that I know what you mean. How did my brother get fat (slim parents)? How did I stay slim (eating tons)?

Mel

I agree that it isn't obvious what causes obesity and that sugar and carbohydrate consumption is only a part of the picture. But it does appear that we are finding out more now since obesity has become such an obvious problem. The microbes that live in the gut seem to be getting some of the research attention that they deserve and may perhaps explain why, as you point out:

But there are way too many cases of people who, given their calorie intake, should be overweight and are not, and the opposite.

Having the right gut bacteria isn't a new idea, Hitler suffered from digestive problems and was prescribed pills which apparently contained bacteria derived from the stools of Prussian peasants (or something like that).

IIRC gut bacteria have a close relationship with certain brain functions and could hypothetically control appetite, they do seem to have an affect on mood.

RC

[tjh290633]

8.5 stone is very light for an adult!
I've varied between 12st and 15st, currently about 12st10lbs which is (just) in the OK BMI range (put on a bit over Christmas)
I'm 6' medium build, do lots of walking and NO RUNNING EVER

For a 5ft 6inch male 8stone 7pounds is towards the bottom of the healthy BMI range. But 11stone 7pounds is towards the bottom of the overweight range. I need to lose 7pounds. I'm using my bike and will be rowing a boat when the brown trout season commences.

I'm 5'4" and was 8.5 stone when I did my National Service. Collar size started increasing in my 50s at the same time that I started having a couple of pints at lunchtime. Waist increased from 30" to the current 38", and chest increased from 36" to 44". Current weight is just under 75kg, that must be 1.5cwts, or 12 stone.

Cutting out biscuits for Lent will shave 2-3 kg off the weight.

TJH

[UncleEbenezer]

How did my brother get fat (slim parents)? How did I stay slim (eating tons)?

Mel

Possible data point there: do you know if you and/or your fat brother were breast-fed or bottle-fed?

[Bminusrob]

I think the scientists here are barking up the wrong tree, in fact I could have left the "up the wrong tree" bit out altogether.

Have our genes change radically in a generation? I think not, so why are there far more fat people about now than there were 25 or 30 years ago?

I can think of a number of possible reasons:

1. Much more sedantary lifestyle - less exercise, more sitting watching television
2. Cheaper food, particularly processed food with added salt and sugar
3. Much more fast food, a lot of which is very high in calories. Just look at the number of fried chicken shops in some areas.
4. Lazy eating, lack of meal planning and not eating as a family

However, the worst of all is town centres. Half of the shops now appear to be coffee shops, cafes or fast food outlets. For a lot of people, it is now impossible to go shopping without including the consumption of a large cake and a pint of milk with a teaspoon of coffee and quite likely sugar added.

[melonfool]

We were both exclusively breast fed. It was the 60's, no-one bottle fed then!

We are very different in lots of ways, he smoked for years, I've never even tried it, he drinks like a fish, I last had a drink just after Christmas.....etc.

Mel

[PinkDalek]

It was the 60's, no-one bottle fed then!

According to https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... _sec2title artificial feedings were also used in ancient times and onwards. I don't know about the sixties though.

[malkymoo]

We were both exclusively breast fed. It was the 60's, no-one bottle fed then!

Not so, anyone older than about 60 will remember the blue and white national milk tins supplied by the Ministry of Food.

Picture here: https://www.cooksinfo.com/national-dried-milk

[UncleEbenezer]

It was the 60's, no-one bottle fed then!

According to https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... _sec2title artificial feedings were also used in ancient times and onwards. I don't know about the sixties though.

No idea how many people did it by choice[1], but you certainly bottle-fed if you had sufficient difficulty breast-feeding.

Given that a perk of being rich is that you get to exempt yourself from many chores, is it not possible that it may have been seen as something to aspire to at some times in history? A next-best thing if you just weren't quite enough of a VIP to get a wet-nurse? A scandal of modern times is companies promoting formula feed as aspirational in third-world countries!

[1] If I google "1960s baby feeding", the first quote I get is:

From 1930 through the 1960s, breast-feeding declined and cow's milk and beikost were introduced into the diet at earlier and earlier ages. Although commercially prepared formulas, including iron-fortified formulas replaced home-prepared formulas, few infants were breast-fed or formula fed after 4–6 mo of age. ... iron.

Plenty more there: a mumsnet thread where someone recollects Carnation featuring a baby-feeding guide on tins of evaporated milk.

[ReformedCharacter]

I think the scientists here are barking up the wrong tree, in fact I could have left the "up the wrong tree" bit out altogether.

Have our genes change radically in a generation?

Epigenetics - changes in organisms caused by modification of gene expression rather than alteration of the genetic code itself.

RC

[ReformedCharacter]

I think the scientists here are barking up the wrong tree, in fact I could have left the "up the wrong tree" bit out altogether.

Have our genes change radically in a generation?

Epigenetics - changes in organisms caused by modification of gene expression rather than alteration of the genetic code itself.

RC

eg. 'Diet and the epigenome'

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-05778-1

RC

[sg31]

Bottle feeding was heavily promoted in the mid 50's as the healthy way to bring up babies. I was born in 55 and my mother bottle fed me as she was convinced it was the best way to ensure I got all the nutrients and food I needed.

It may be that after the war adult diets were still poor and the authorities considered mothers milk might be deficient in some way. Once they push bottle feeding it may have taken time for new advice to percolate down to the working classes. I wouldn't know for sure, I couldn't walk or talk at the time never mind read the newspapers.

[bungeejumper]

Epigenetics - changes in organisms caused by modification of gene expression rather than alteration of the genetic code itself. eg. 'Diet and the epigenome'

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-05778-1

Interesting stuff, RC, thanks. I only understood about a quarter of it, but het, my Scrabble score has just gone through the roof.

"Waiter, those prawns are playing hell with the genetic receptors on my mother's side. Bring me some β-hydroxybutyrate fast, before I mutate into the Incredible Hulk and smash the joint."

BJ

[Stonge]

More twaddle we have to listen to or read.

[malkymoo]

I think the scientists here are barking up the wrong tree, in fact I could have left the "up the wrong tree" bit out altogether.

Have our genes change radically in a generation?

Epigenetics - changes in organisms caused by modification of gene expression rather than alteration of the genetic code itself.

RC

eg. 'Diet and the epigenome'

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-05778-1

RC

Bit more understandable account here: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/31/scie ... genes.html

Directly relates to the question of why some people seems programmed to be overweight.

[ReformedCharacter]

Epigenetics - changes in organisms caused by modification of gene expression rather than alteration of the genetic code itself.

RC

eg. 'Diet and the epigenome'

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-05778-1

RC

Bit more understandable account here: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/31/scie ... genes.html

Directly relates to the question of why some people seems programmed to be overweight.

Thanks for finding a reference to the Dutch study which I have read before.

The discovery of epigenetics and the realisation that genes are not the immutable destiny of an organism is one of the most interesting subjects to have emerged since the rudimentary genetics that I was taught at school. Lamarckian inheritance which was treated as a failed theory and surplanted by Mendelian inheritance may be closer to the truth than we were taught.

RC

[melonfool]

More twaddle we have to listen to or read.

It's not compulsory to listen to it or read it.

Mel

[Stonge]

More twaddle we have to listen to or read.

It's not compulsory to listen to it or read it.

Mel

Hard to avoid though, and hard to avoid its effects (bit like Brexit). Demoralising as well I suspect.

[panamagold]

I suspect a survey conducted around the acceleration of obesity over the past twenty years would carry a strong correlation with a survey of the decline in smoking over the past twenty years.

In my youth everybody smoked and they were thin with their arteries clogged up. Now there are a fraction of the smokers and everybody is fat and the streets and public places are now clogged up.