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Danny Baker fired by BBC over royal baby chimp tweet

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melonfool
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Re: Danny Baker fired by BBC over royal baby chimp tweet

#220625

Postby melonfool » May 10th, 2019, 11:06 am

stevensfo wrote:I thought it was just very funny and was perplexed at the 'racist' tag at first. How on earth is it racist? Surely this speaks volumes about the people who first started squeaking about it. I'm not a great watcher of the Royals so may be a bit out of date, but I have never, ever thought for one millisecond about Harry's bride in terms of race. So for me, the picture was funny. If there are people who equate a chimpanzee to human races with more melanin in their skin, then they are complete idiots and are indirectly fueling racism.

Steve


You really must live under a rock.

But, for reference, try watching almost any football match with black players. Do you think the bananas are thrown as a convenient mid-match snack? Do you think only black players get hungry mid-match?
(note: DB is a rabid football fan, supporting Millwall I gather, where they have had quite a few racism issues)

"If there are people who equate a chimpanzee to human races with more melanin in their skin, then they are complete idiots and are indirectly fueling racism."

I think you will find these complete idiots are directly and *knowingly* fuelling racism, it is their actual intention.

See also the Daily Mail comments section under the item on the birth of the royal baby - comments such as "good jobs it's nice and pale" and "pink enough for me" were the ones the DM LEFT, so god only knows what was moderated away.

Then add in all the ghastly speculation that Meghan was using a surrogate so the baby would be "white enough" and really, the issue of the tweet is one of context.

I have no idea if DB is himself racist (and let us not pretend we don't all have unconscious bias) but the tweet certainly had racist connotations which his employer could not support. I know he IS sexist though. I've heard enough of his drivel on the radio to find him pretty unpleasant.

His response was pretty unpleasant too. I've watched an interview with him on his doorstep where he tries to defend it but is fairly incoherent in his responses and he calls on Occam's Razor as his defence, which doesn't really work in the situation.

But I expect I just don't have a sense of humour and don't understand his bants. Or something. I don't really care if he was sacked or not though, I wasn't even aware he was still 'at large'!

Mel

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Re: Danny Baker fired by BBC over royal baby chimp tweet

#220656

Postby Leothebear » May 10th, 2019, 1:24 pm

Well said Mel.
The controversy about Meghan's race and the abuse she has had to suffer has left me with the sad realization that we still have a long way to go to eradicate racism. How the hell is she feeling about all this? I used to think we were streets ahead of the USA when it came to racism, not so sure now.

Danny Baker was either profoundly drunk or being extremely dense or both to have posted the picture. To claim it had no racist connotations is idiotic.

melonfool
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Re: Danny Baker fired by BBC over royal baby chimp tweet

#220668

Postby melonfool » May 10th, 2019, 2:12 pm

This update from him does make him look slightly better:

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainment/ ... ocid=ientp

(though 'dog whistle anyone' is still making light of it).

This in particular:

"“F**k, what had I done?” he wrote. “I needed no lessons on the centuries slurs equating simians and people of colour. Racism at it’s basest.

“I am aware black people do not need a white man to tell them this. Deleting it immediately and apologising for the awful gaffe I even foolishly tried to make light of it. (My situation that is, not the racism involved.) Too late and here I am.” [sic]

- shows that he does realise.

Mel

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Re: Danny Baker fired by BBC over royal baby chimp tweet

#220669

Postby StepOne » May 10th, 2019, 2:14 pm

Leothebear wrote: To claim it had no racist connotations is idiotic.


It certainly had no racist intent. It was a mistake, quickly acknowledged as such. Compare to Alan Sugar who tweeted an image of the Senegal football team at last year's World Cup, saying he recognised them as beach vendors in Marbella. He initially defended that tweet, saying 'it was just a joke'. He still hosts a prime time BBC show and sits in the House of Lords.

StepOne

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Re: Danny Baker fired by BBC over royal baby chimp tweet

#220677

Postby didds » May 10th, 2019, 2:51 pm

well for what its worth when I saw the picture wrt the hoo-hah my reaction was not "oh look - an obvious insinuration that the kid is a non-white skjinned individual".

Obviously my claim must be idiotic too.

I am now aware that may opeople it seems see chimpanzees as racist icons. Im not sure what that says abo0ut them TBH.

Meanwhile I see lots fo claims elsewhere about monkies = black people apparently.

Whereas this was of a chimp, not a monkey anyway. Speciest remarks maybe?


didds

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Re: Danny Baker fired by BBC over royal baby chimp tweet

#220697

Postby BobbyD » May 10th, 2019, 3:46 pm

melonfool wrote:But, for reference, try watching almost any football match with black players. Do you think the bananas are thrown as a convenient mid-match snack? Do you think only black players get hungry mid-match?


Talking about out of date and offensive stereotypes...

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Re: Danny Baker fired by BBC over royal baby chimp tweet

#220711

Postby XFool » May 10th, 2019, 4:43 pm

Leothebear wrote:Danny Baker was either profoundly drunk or being extremely dense or both to have posted the picture. To claim it had no racist connotations is idiotic.

I think you've put your finger on it here. It may have had no intended racist connotations, for Baker, and others. But it would have for others - indeed, for them, that could be the very reason it was entertaining. (I feel Baker now realises this himself.)

In other words, as with many things, it is in the eye of the beholder.

My usual benchmark for this kind of situation is that long ago sketch from Not The Nine Oclock News:

Rowan Atkinson - Not the Nine O'Clock News Deaf Telephone Sketch YouTube

I enjoyed it at the time, interpreting it (correctly!?) as a send up of Tomorrow's World - one of my favourite programmes. But it caused a fuss. Many were apparently 'offended' by its 'mockery' of deaf people. I felt that to be a startling example of missing the entire point.

"...you can't please all of the people all of the time."

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Re: Danny Baker fired by BBC over royal baby chimp tweet

#220741

Postby Lanark » May 10th, 2019, 7:05 pm

StepOne wrote:It's a photo of a chimp wearing clothes. That's always been viewed as funny, hasn't it? Admittedly the chimp part is not used so much these days, but if you look on instagram, facebook, twitter you will see millions of photos of animals in human clothes intended to amuse.


Don't anthropomorphize the animals - they hate that!

p.s. I dont use Facebook or Twitter very much, but I think some of those photos are actually people.

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Re: Danny Baker fired by BBC over royal baby chimp tweet

#220776

Postby gryffron » May 10th, 2019, 11:28 pm

I did wonder about the legal position of the BBC here. Whilst I certainly accept the possible racist interpretation of this, and it is certainly in bad taste, I doubt it could be judged criminal.

But I suspect it is likely DB is self employed like most celebs, rather than an employee. Hence he would have only contractual and not legal employment protection. No doubt he'll get a wad of cash from license payers as a payoff.

Gryff

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Re: Danny Baker fired by BBC over royal baby chimp tweet

#220782

Postby melonfool » May 11th, 2019, 12:14 am

You don't have to do something criminal to get sacked, far from it!

Mel

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Re: Danny Baker fired by BBC over royal baby chimp tweet

#220783

Postby melonfool » May 11th, 2019, 12:16 am

BobbyD wrote:
melonfool wrote:But, for reference, try watching almost any football match with black players. Do you think the bananas are thrown as a convenient mid-match snack? Do you think only black players get hungry mid-match?


Talking about out of date and offensive stereotypes...


I don't understand your point, please could you make it more clearly?

Are you suggesting there is no racism at football matches? When did you last go and see Millwall play a team that had black players, just out of interest?

Mel

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Re: Danny Baker fired by BBC over royal baby chimp tweet

#220786

Postby zico » May 11th, 2019, 12:50 am

Disregarding the issue of potential racism, if he'd tweeted a picture of any celebrity couple using a chimp to represent their new-born baby, wouldn't that be also really offensive to the baby's parents?
I thought publicly mocking celebrity (or anyone's) kids was out of bounds too.

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Re: Danny Baker fired by BBC over royal baby chimp tweet

#220791

Postby BobbyD » May 11th, 2019, 4:32 am

melonfool wrote:But, for reference, try watching almost any football match with black players. Do you think the bananas are thrown as a convenient mid-match snack? Do you think only black players get hungry mid-match?


melonfool wrote:
BobbyD wrote:
melonfool wrote:But, for reference, try watching almost any football match with black players. Do you think the bananas are thrown as a convenient mid-match snack? Do you think only black players get hungry mid-match?


Talking about out of date and offensive stereotypes...


I don't understand your point, please could you make it more clearly?

Are you suggesting there is no racism at football matches? When did you last go and see Millwall play a team that had black players, just out of interest?

Mel


If Millwall played in most football matches and threw bananas at black players in every game that might be relevant. Neither of those is true.

Your stereotype is outdated and derogatory. Feel free to justify it with facts and figures.

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Re: Danny Baker fired by BBC over royal baby chimp tweet

#220794

Postby Leothebear » May 11th, 2019, 7:03 am

"Your stereotype is outdated and derogatory. Feel free to justify it with facts and figures."

Whether is happens at Millwall or not isn't really the point is it. Making chimp sounds and gestures is an insult aimed at black players as you must well know, unless, to quote Mel, you live under a rock.

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Re: Danny Baker fired by BBC over royal baby chimp tweet

#220871

Postby melonfool » May 11th, 2019, 2:36 pm

zico wrote:Disregarding the issue of potential racism, if he'd tweeted a picture of any celebrity couple using a chimp to represent their new-born baby, wouldn't that be also really offensive to the baby's parents?
I thought publicly mocking celebrity (or anyone's) kids was out of bounds too.


He claims it was a comment on the 'media circus' not the baby itself, so if he did that for any other baby, then he would presumably use the same 'defence'.

Not sure monkeys in suits are quite that obviously mocking a media circus but there you go.

Mel

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Re: Danny Baker fired by BBC over royal baby chimp tweet

#220873

Postby melonfool » May 11th, 2019, 2:42 pm

BobbyD wrote:
melonfool wrote:But, for reference, try watching almost any football match with black players. Do you think the bananas are thrown as a convenient mid-match snack? Do you think only black players get hungry mid-match?


melonfool wrote:
BobbyD wrote:
Talking about out of date and offensive stereotypes...


I don't understand your point, please could you make it more clearly?

Are you suggesting there is no racism at football matches? When did you last go and see Millwall play a team that had black players, just out of interest?

Mel


If Millwall played in most football matches and threw bananas at black players in every game that might be relevant. Neither of those is true.

Your stereotype is outdated and derogatory. Feel free to justify it with facts and figures.


I don't need to justify YOUR strawman, feel free to respond to my actual words though.

Mel

(a very simple Google of the key words throws up many articles of incidents even including this most recent season, but if you prefer to live under a rock, you carry right on. I only used Milwall as an example because it's the team Baker supports and is known as being one of the more tricky clubs with regard to fan behaviour, and I spoke to a football supporting friend about the Baker incident and he said he hates when his team plays Milwall because it's always nasty)

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Re: Danny Baker fired by BBC over royal baby chimp tweet

#220881

Postby dealtn » May 11th, 2019, 3:36 pm

melonfool wrote:
BobbyD wrote:
melonfool wrote:But, for reference, try watching almost any football match with black players. Do you think the bananas are thrown as a convenient mid-match snack? Do you think only black players get hungry mid-match?


melonfool wrote:
I don't understand your point, please could you make it more clearly?

Are you suggesting there is no racism at football matches? When did you last go and see Millwall play a team that had black players, just out of interest?

Mel


If Millwall played in most football matches and threw bananas at black players in every game that might be relevant. Neither of those is true.

Your stereotype is outdated and derogatory. Feel free to justify it with facts and figures.


I don't need to justify YOUR strawman, feel free to respond to my actual words though.

Mel

(a very simple Google of the key words throws up many articles of incidents even including this most recent season, but if you prefer to live under a rock, you carry right on. I only used Milwall as an example because it's the team Baker supports and is known as being one of the more tricky clubs with regard to fan behaviour, and I spoke to a football supporting friend about the Baker incident and he said he hates when his team plays Milwall because it's always nasty)


I'm guessing it's the "...try watching almost any football match with black players..." that attracted the criticism that what you said was both "outdated and derogatory" (my bold).

Does racism still exist in football? Undoubtedly. Does it happen in nearly every match (I imagine, but don't have the data, that it is a very rare match these days without any black players)? Probably not. Are bananas involved in nearly every match? No.

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Re: Danny Baker fired by BBC over royal baby chimp tweet

#220882

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » May 11th, 2019, 3:42 pm

stevensfo wrote:I thought it was just very funny and was perplexed at the 'racist' tag at first. How on earth is it racist? Surely this speaks volumes about the people who first started squeaking about it. I'm not a great watcher of the Royals so may be a bit out of date, but I have never, ever thought for one millisecond about Harry's bride in terms of race. So for me, the picture was funny. If there are people who equate a chimpanzee to human races with more melanin in their skin, then they are complete idiots and are indirectly fueling racism.

I reminds me of the case a few years ago where a boy model was modelling a teeshirt with 'Little monkey' on it. The 'outrage/gobsmacked/gone viral' morons were on it immediately because the boy happened to be black. The boy's mother couldn't understand what the fuss was about and her disgust with the pathetic bleating idiots soon shut them up, but this sort of thing seems to be the norm these days. When will these people realise that their readiness to scream 'racist' at everything only serves to keep the cancer of racism going and feeds the shock/horror tabloid style of commentary.

Steve


Alternatively one could suggest that "silence" amounts to consent or even worse complete agreement? The reality is no one can know what his intentions were. However, he hasn't really thought it through in my opinion. Racism doesn't have to be blatantly obvious. Indeed these days much of it is much more subversive. Many black footballers have monkey chants and taunts levelled at them. They have banana's thrown at them. That's racist. In my mind regardless of intent this photgraph and caption amounted to a racial insult. But even more disgraceful is that this person has tried to make a mockery of and belittle someone else. It's emotional bullying and I can see absolutley no constructive purpose or outcome.

Well done BBC. Racism has been and still is, in many areas a cruel divisive issue and there should always be a voice against it, no matter how it is served up.

AiY

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Re: Danny Baker fired by BBC over royal baby chimp tweet

#220893

Postby melonfool » May 11th, 2019, 4:13 pm

dealtn wrote:
melonfool wrote:
BobbyD wrote:


If Millwall played in most football matches and threw bananas at black players in every game that might be relevant. Neither of those is true.

Your stereotype is outdated and derogatory. Feel free to justify it with facts and figures.


I don't need to justify YOUR strawman, feel free to respond to my actual words though.

Mel

(a very simple Google of the key words throws up many articles of incidents even including this most recent season, but if you prefer to live under a rock, you carry right on. I only used Milwall as an example because it's the team Baker supports and is known as being one of the more tricky clubs with regard to fan behaviour, and I spoke to a football supporting friend about the Baker incident and he said he hates when his team plays Milwall because it's always nasty)


I'm guessing it's the "...try watching almost any football match with black players..." that attracted the criticism that what you said was both "outdated and derogatory" (my bold).

Does racism still exist in football? Undoubtedly. Does it happen in nearly every match (I imagine, but don't have the data, that it is a very rare match these days without any black players)? Probably not. Are bananas involved in nearly every match? No.


Well I wasn't suggesting that bananas are thrown at every football match, it was just an example of the racism and I'm afraid I do believe there is racism at practically every football match with non white players. Sorry.

This Wiki page has some useful references, and, totally randomly, mentions Millwall from just this year:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in ... n_football

"In February 2019 Millwall were charged by the Football Association over alleged racist chanting by their fans during a FA Cup game against Everton in January.[218] Leeds United were also investigated for alleged racism of their fans."

Mel

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Re: Danny Baker fired by BBC over royal baby chimp tweet

#220896

Postby BobbyD » May 11th, 2019, 4:18 pm

melonfool wrote:
I don't understand your point, please could you make it more clearly?

Are you suggesting there is no racism at football matches? When did you last go and see Millwall play a team that had black players, just out of interest?

Mel


I'm not asking you to justify my words, I'm asking you to justify your words, specifically

melonfool wrote:But, for reference, try watching almost any football match with black players. Do you think the bananas are thrown as a convenient mid-match snack? Do you think only black players get hungry mid-match?


A specific act performed at a majority of games involving a black player.

You bought Millwall up not me, I'm glad you agree it was a strawman.

dealtn wrote:I'm guessing it's the "...try watching almost any football match with black players..." that attracted the criticism that what you said was both "outdated and derogatory" (my bold).

Does racism still exist in football? Undoubtedly. Does it happen in nearly every match (I imagine, but don't have the data, that it is a very rare match these days without any black players)? Probably not. Are bananas involved in nearly every match? No.


Exactly.

Thank you for clarifying my point which I needlessly obscured by quoting directly and succinctly from the original source!

melonfool wrote:Well I wasn't suggesting that bananas are thrown at every football match


That is exactly what you suggested.


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