Chateau cock-up

[Clitheroekid]

This was amusing - some businessmen who'd ordered a £260 bottle of claret were accidentally served a £4,500 one - https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/hawk ... 44031.html

But I don't for one second believe that "the customer didn't know and it was only afterwards that one of the managers picked up what had happened."

If a waiter's bringing you a £260 bottle of wine he doesn't just plonk it on the table and leave you to sort yourself out. At the very least, he'd show you the label and let you taste it. And if these guys were sufficiently knowledgeable about and/or keen on wine to shell out £260 on a bottle of Pichon Longueville Comtesse de Lalande 2001 there is no way on earth they wouldn't have recognised the name of le Pin on the label. Along with Pétrus it's probably one of the best known clarets in the world.

Having said that I'm pretty sure I'd have kept quiet as well!

The interesting point, though, is whether most people could tell the difference. I love claret, but I rarely aspire to wines like Pichon Longueville, let alone le Pin. Although the two wines would taste different I very much doubt I'd be able to discern any difference in quality - though if anyone wants to challenge me I'd be humbly grateful ...

[Itsallaguess]

This was amusing - some businessmen who'd ordered a £260 bottle of claret were accidentally served a £4,500 one - https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/hawk ... 44031.html

But I don't for one second believe that "the customer didn't know and it was only afterwards that one of the managers picked up what had happened."

If a waiter's bringing you a £260 bottle of wine he doesn't just plonk it on the table and leave you to sort yourself out. At the very least, he'd show you the label and let you taste it. And if these guys were sufficiently knowledgeable about and/or keen on wine to shell out £260 on a bottle of Pichon Longueville Comtesse de Lalande 2001 there is no way on earth they wouldn't have recognised the name of le Pin on the label. Along with Pétrus it's probably one of the best known clarets in the world.

Having said that I'm pretty sure I'd have kept quiet as well!

I thought the response from the restaurant to the mistake was a great piece of modern-market PR, making sure that they clearly and publicly forgave the poor waiter who made the mistake -



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-48292972

I'd love to see their booking numbers and compare the next six months numbers to their usual levels...

Had to laugh on the above BBC story that there were calls to advertise the waiter's shift-patterns, so that other people could ensure they booked at the right times....

Me? Give me a 7 quid bottle of Malbec and I'm happy......

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[kiloran]

I wonder if someone ordered the £260 bottle in order to impress, rather than because they were knowledgeable about wine? In which case they would never have noticed the different label or taste.

--kiloran

[kiloran]

I thought the response from the restaurant to the mistake was a great piece of modern-market PR, making sure that they clearly and publicly forgave the poor waiter who made the mistake -




Me? Give me a 7 quid bottle of Malbec and I'm happy......

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

Ah, but did you notice the subtle hint at the end of the tweet... "One-off mistakes happen". Subtext... "Your work will be closely scrutinised from now on and any more mistakes will result in the sack".

With you all the way on the £7 Malbec. Back in the 80s when I was working in France, I and my colleagues tended to drink the local £2 a bottle stuff, and maybe up to £5 at times. We decided to buy a £50 wine just to try it (advised by a number of locals). I laid on the food at my place and we tried the wine. It was OK, but we thought it was nothing to write home about (although I did ). We always felt that we would have had more pleasure from ten £5 bottles.

--kiloran

[UncleEbenezer]

Speaking as someone who would be splashing out for a special occasion to order a £26 bottle of restaurant wine, let alone £260 ...

I couldn't hope to tell the difference, never having knowingly sipped such expensive plonk in my life. If it were a business event ... well, I guess someone like the Client who once put me up in the Ritz Carlton in Boston might splash out to entertain someone more important than me.

But I might appreciate it nevertheless. My own alma mater at Cambridge didn't offer anything exciting, but I really could tell the difference on a couple of occasions when I got invited to dine at other colleges with a proper tradition and serious cellars.

[simoan]

I don't feel sorry for the restaurant at all. The mark up on wines in UK restaurants is absolutely shocking and these prices are still way above retail - the idea that the Lalande 2001 is worth £260 is a joke, because the restaurant probably only paid £60 for it on-trade. It's about time something was done about the huge markups which seem to be unique to UK restaurants. One of the great things about drinking wine in restaurants in Europe is that the wine rarely costs greatly more than the retail price. As you can tell, I hardly ever drink wine in UK restaurants and only normally do so under duress. Who on earth wants to pay £22 for a bottle of wine you know damned well retails for less than £6.

All the best, Si

[Itsallaguess]

Ah, but did you notice the subtle hint at the end of the tweet... "One-off mistakes happen". Subtext... "Your work will be closely scrutinised from now on and any more mistakes will result in the sack".

Heh - I did, but I still thought it was a lovely gesture to take the heat off someone who's clearly getting a lot of publicity regarding his error....

With you all the way on the £7 Malbec. Back in the 80s when I was working in France, I and my colleagues tended to drink the local £2 a bottle stuff, and maybe up to £5 at times. We decided to buy a £50 wine just to try it (advised by a number of locals). I laid on the food at my place and we tried the wine. It was OK, but we thought it was nothing to write home about. We always felt that we would have had more pleasure from ten £5 bottles.

I remember someone recommending the Trivento Reserve Malbec back on the TMF boards years ago, and I always keep my eye out for when it's on offer anywhere.

Tesco are currently selling it for £6 a bottle, and when I've ever taken it anywhere in a social setting it gets commented on consistently as being a really nice Malbec -

https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/278363743

I'll be off to Tesco's before the night is over!

Cheers!

Itsallaguess

[AleisterCrowley]

I know sweet FA about wine really: I tend to only have the occasional Beaujolais/Marzemino, real light stuff. I rarely pay more than £10
I suspect that diminishing returns set in ,as with many things (hi fi...) and that knowing how much a wine costs alters one's perception of it significantly. I could probably tell the difference between a sub £5 plonk and something decent , but I doubt a £250 vs a £2,500 would be noticeable to me. I'm sure there are those who can tell in blind tastings, and have trained themselves to prefer the expensive stuff, but a lot of it is just showing off.
Would people order expensive wine in restaurants if all wines came in the same unmarked bottle , with just a tiny identification label- bit like fags? A lot of it is just to have the bottle on the table- that nice Château Angélus rings all the right bells with onlookers

[UncleEbenezer]

Heh - I did, but I still thought it was a lovely gesture to take the heat off someone who's clearly getting a lot of publicity regarding his error....

Why is there any publicity at all?

One might almost suspect a planned stunt.

[tjh290633]

I was in Argentina in 1979 with two Americans. We went for a meal at "La Chacra" in BA and ordered peppered steaks. I ordered a bottle of "Vino tinto del casa", on the principle that it didn't much matter what we drank with those steaks. It disappeared quickly and the older American said "That's not bad, Shall we have another bottle?"

I said "At 35 cents a bottle, I thought it was good value. Let's have another". He nearly fell off his chair, but it was at the time of super-inflation.

TJH

[sg31]

I remember someone recommending the Trivento Reserve Malbec back on the TMF boards years ago, and I always keep my eye out for when it's on offer anywhere.

Tesco are currently selling it for £6 a bottle, and when I've ever taken it anywhere in a social setting it gets commented on consistently as being a really nice Malbec -

https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/278363743

I'll be off to Tesco's before the night is over!

Cheers!

Itsallaguess

Wait until they do a 25% off 6 bottles deal and it can be yours for £4.50. It just depends on whether it is on offer at the same time as the 25% offer.

[Howard]

I don't feel sorry for the restaurant at all. The mark up on wines in UK restaurants is absolutely shocking and these prices are still way above retail - the idea that the Lalande 2001 is worth £260 is a joke, because the restaurant probably only paid £60 for it on-trade. It's about time something was done about the huge markups which seem to be unique to UK restaurants. One of the great things about drinking wine in restaurants in Europe is that the wine rarely costs greatly more than the retail price. As you can tell, I hardly ever drink wine in UK restaurants and only normally do so under duress. Who on earth wants to pay £22 for a bottle of wine you know damned well retails for less than £6.

All the best, Si

I think you underestimate the cost of a bottle of 2001 Comtesse de Lalande. Berry Bros will sell you a case in bond for £2,400, that’s £200 a bottle plus tax. I doubt if a restaurant can buy it much cheaper than £100 a bottle and they'd have to buy in bulk to get that price and they have to pay for storage as it won't be a high turnover item.

As a customer of BBR, I did buy a case of 1996 Comtesse (an even better year) for a modest price a few years ago. It is a lovely wine and I only have one bottle left. You’d have to pay me more than £260 to part with it! The case was a super investment.

It is interesting that many investors will happily pay a fortune for some shares, but only drink cheap wine!

Having written that I have to admit to having just had a glass of very pleasant Sauvignon Blanc from Tesco with my supper.

regards

Howard

PS In my experience anyone who orders this quality of wine, won't miss a different bottle arriving at the table. I bet there was some surreptitious reference to the internet or a wine app after it arrived.

[Itsallaguess]

PS In my experience anyone who orders this quality of wine, won't miss a different bottle arriving at the table.

I bet there was some surreptitious reference to the internet or a wine app after it arrived.

The BBC report said that the table ordered a second bottle....

The report didn't detail how quickly they made the second order, but they were told that a second bottle was 'unavailable'.....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[AleisterCrowley]

I did a wee survey on the old TMF site, cost to consumer sing!e bottle vs good restaurant price. Same wines, same vintage. From memory the restaurant cost was 2.5 to 3 times the supermarket cost at the low end (£7-£10) No idea what it's like in the wine stratosphere...

[Pendrainllwyn]

Would people order expensive wine in restaurants if all wines came in the same unmarked bottle , with just a tiny identification label- bit like fags?

I am told that at some high end restaurants in China, waiters will place the bottle with the label facing outwards so that guests at neighbouring tables can see what expensive wine you are drinking. The more expensive the wine the better.

Pendrainllwyn

[AleisterCrowley]

That's pretty much universal...

[UncleEbenezer]

Would people order expensive wine in restaurants if all wines came in the same unmarked bottle , with just a tiny identification label- bit like fags?

In Italy off the tourist circuit there is often no choice of wine at all. You just decide how much, and order a larger or smaller carafe of the house wine, alongside your choice of still or sparkling water (or, my preference, effervescente naturale, just the merest hint of fizz - sadly hard to find here).

The wine itself is complete pot-luck too. Local, and could be rough. A bit like ordering a scrumpy in our westcountry a generation or two ago, before elfin safety clamped down on the more characterful variants.

[johnstevens77]

Would people order expensive wine in restaurants if all wines came in the same unmarked bottle , with just a tiny identification label- bit like fags?

In Italy off the tourist circuit there is often no choice of wine at all. You just decide how much, and order a larger or smaller carafe of the house wine, alongside your choice of still or sparkling water (or, my preference, effervescente naturale, just the merest hint of fizz - sadly hard to find here).

When we buy bottled water which is rarely, it is Badoit. I discovered it when I worked in St. Galmier which is where the source and bottling plant is.The locals used to take their empty bottles to the fountain and fill up for free. Badoit is widely available nowadays, both Waitrose and Tesco sell it near us.

john

[UncleEbenezer]

When we buy bottled water which is rarely, it is Badoit.
john

Likewise. It seems to be the nicest to have reached British supermarkets (some restaurants also have nice waters).

Have you tried the flavoured Badoit variants (Lemon or Mint)? I think they may be unique amongst bottled waters: a slightly-flavoured water that isn't sweetened to taste foul! I bought quite a lot when Sainsburys had them at 80p. As and when I have more fridge space I'd like to try DIY variants.

The locals used to take their empty bottles to the fountain and fill up for free.

Ah. Like the hippy spring at Glastonbury, where I would regularly stop to refill my waterbottle when commuting Bath-Yeovil.

[simoan]

I think you underestimate the cost of a bottle of 2001 Comtesse de Lalande. Berry Bros will sell you a case in bond for £2,400, that’s £200 a bottle plus tax. I doubt if a restaurant can buy it much cheaper than £100 a bottle and they'd have to buy in bulk to get that price and they have to pay for storage as it won't be a high turnover item.

I'm not sure it is an underestimate. I'm assuming they didn't buy the wine last week and certainly not from somewhere as ludicrously expensive as BBR. 2001 was not a great vintage and if they've had it sitting in the cellar for 10 years, then £60 is probably an overestimate of what the restaurant actually paid. I bet if you bought in 2002 in bond it was £40 or less a bottle, as this was before the stupid escalation in the prices of Bordeaux caused by the Chinese.

IMHO there is no more overrated wine than the lesser growths of Bordeaux. My one recommendation for people ordering wine in a UK restaurant would be to avoid red Bourdeaux like the plague because most of it is rubbish and quality variation is high between different vintages. You really need to know your stuff and 99.9% of people don't.

All the best, Si