Short call to arms - vote for Boris Johnson

[AsleepInYorkshire]

Tory leadership contest: Boris Johnson pledges income tax cut for high earners
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48577579

The former foreign secretary told the Telegraph he would use money currently set aside for a no-deal Brexit to raise the 40% tax rate threshold to £80,000.

Increase ones personal beer budget forthwith

Ooooo - somebody stop me

AiY

[bungeejumper]

Sounds good to me. That'll be £350 million a week, I presume?

BJ

[redsturgeon]

He couldn't possibly be lying could he?

John

[terminal7]

How the conservative party membership (and their offspring) will love this. Hmm - could that be the main audience?

Difficult to see how Bridgend and Scunthorpe will feel the inclusivity of such a policy. Never mind - we will soon be in charge of the creek in a canoe with a Boris paddle.

T7 (soon to be T7++)

[UncleEbenezer]

Carefully targeted demographic there, perhaps?

If he had money to hand out, it could have fixed something more anomalous - like the 76% marginal rate at the point where personal allowance is lost, and the similar issues around loss of family allowances.

Or the extreme marginal rates of effective taxation faced by those whose low pay loses them benefits.

More interesting: he thinks this'll benefit him with his membership, and he's probably right. Despite the fact he must know that everyone will (like posters in this thread) see the bribe for what it is.

[Alaric]

Carefully targeted demographic there, perhaps?

I believe it would be reasonable as a matter of long term policy to periodically adjust the Higher Rate threshold so that no more than x% of taxpayers fell into it. If the country gets richer with more higher earners, that threshold increases.

[UncleEbenezer]

Carefully targeted demographic there, perhaps?

I believe it would be reasonable as a matter of long term policy to periodically adjust the Higher Rate threshold so that no more than x% of taxpayers fell into it. If the country gets richer with more higher earners, that threshold increases.

That's a fair argument[1]. But surely one for a different electorate to the one Boris is currently concerned with.

[1] I would disagree, but that's because I would see it as sticking-plaster for a system in need of deeper reform.

[terminal7]

* Cut the basic rate of income tax from 20% to 15% (Raab)
* Raise the higher income tax rate from £50,000 to £80,000 (BJ)
* Scrap VAT and replace it with a sales tax (Gove)

Does blue rinse addle the brain?

T7

[AsleepInYorkshire]

He couldn't possibly be lying could he?

John

Errr ... I think, sir you are a cad

How very dare you suggest that this honourable member would lie. I think the word you're looking for is misrepresent

Tory leadership contest: Do tax plans add up?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48581467

Mr Johnson also wants to raise national insurance - to absorb some of the cost.
...
Chitter chatter ... pensioners are better off
...
So, to pay for the policy in the long-term, Mr Johnson will need to raise taxes elsewhere, announce spending cuts or continue to fund it from government borrowing.

Proof if any were needed that the honourable gentleman isn't actually lying

But he's certainly not very honourable is he?

Shall we say tomorrow morning 7am The Mall with Seconds - sorry my bad

AiY

[stevensfo]

* Cut the basic rate of income tax from 20% to 15% (Raab)
* Raise the higher income tax rate from £50,000 to £80,000 (BJ)
* Scrap VAT and replace it with a sales tax (Gove)

Does blue rinse addle the brain?

T7

But I always thought that VAT 'was' a Sales Tax. What's the difference?

Steve

PS Didn't it used to be as low as 8% years ago?

[marronier]

Before there was VAT we had Purchase Tax. In 1955 you could buy a Morris Oxford for £595 plus PT of £249 , equivalent to a VAT rate of 42.5% and a vacuum cleaner for £7.10.00 plus £3. 3. 11d PT. The average wage was £500 - £600 a YEAR.


There would be riots if VAT was doubled today.

[UncleEbenezer]

But I always thought that VAT 'was' a Sales Tax. What's the difference?

VAT involves quite a lot of complexity. Can't say for certain, but I suspect the difference would be to try and simplify the whole thing, and maybe eliminate all those transactions where you pay VAT then reclaim it.

Whether it'll work, and how open it'll be to avoidance and evasion, and indeed other Unintended Consequences, is a whole nother question.

[Alaric]

VAT involves quite a lot of complexity.

It also taxes things that aren't obviously sales. For example if an organisation is above the VAT threshold and runs a Bridge tournament collecting entry fees, it has to charge VAT on those fees. If it runs a tournament with entry fees in something classed as a sport, it doesn't.

It would be necessary to put a lot of distance between the UK and the EU to abolish VAT. "Regulatory equivalence" anyone?

[tjh290633]

My recollection is that there was a special car tax in the 1950s. I bought my first new car in 1958, a VW Beetle costing £759. I replaced it after 42,000 miles in 1960, by which time the special tax had gone and just purchase tax applied, so the price of Beetle No.2 was only £650 or so. I did about 50,000 in that one and its replacement was a Vauxhall Victor FB at a similar price. The registrations were UDF173, 3565W and 6189DK. As I recall the Morris Minor or Austin Seven cost £499 at that time.

TJH

[bungeejumper]

Can't say for certain, but I suspect the difference would be to try and simplify the whole thing, and maybe eliminate all those transactions where you pay VAT then reclaim it.

Whether it'll work, and how open it'll be to avoidance and evasion, and indeed other Unintended Consequences, is a whole nother question.

From memory, the old sales tax didn't apply to services but only to physical goods. Which, considering that services are 80% of the national economy, would leave quite a big hole in the budget. But then, I don't know why I'm even bothering to consider it. It's just another balloon that the over-inflated candidates are flying. And another sop to the 120,000 right-wing oldies who'll be electing our next prime minister for us.

BJ

[tjh290633]

VAT involves quite a lot of complexity.

It also taxes things that aren't obviously sales. For example if an organisation is above the VAT threshold and runs a Bridge tournament collecting entry fees, it has to charge VAT on those fees. If it runs a tournament with entry fees in something classed as a sport, it doesn't.

It would be necessary to put a lot of distance between the UK and the EU to abolish VAT. "Regulatory equivalence" anyone?

We have Insurance Premium Tax and Stamp Duty already. The EU wants to introduce FIT, so VAT is not universally applicable.

TJH

[dionaeamuscipula]

VAT involves quite a lot of complexity.

It also taxes things that aren't obviously sales. For example if an organisation is above the VAT threshold and runs a Bridge tournament collecting entry fees, it has to charge VAT on those fees. If it runs a tournament with entry fees in something classed as a sport, it doesn't.

It would be necessary to put a lot of distance between the UK and the EU to abolish VAT. "Regulatory equivalence" anyone?

We have Insurance Premium Tax and Stamp Duty already. The EU wants to introduce FIT, so VAT is not universally applicable.

TJH

Financial services are exempt from VAT. Running a VAT system is an EU requirement, so this is actually an interesting policy move from Gove, since the ability to do this would flow directly from Brexit. VAT is complex and can be an administrative burden, so a simple sales tax is quite attractive, as long as it is simple. IN the US however, sales tax rates vary from state to state and I believe from county to county, and administration is therefore complex - as a seller you essentially have to be separately registered (and therefore pay the tax in) every state you sell into, and essentially everything you buy has the price quoted before sales taxes, so it is difficult to understand exactly how much you are actually paying. There are big issues with remote selling.

The USA is the only major economy with a sales tax, others are mnoving away from sales taxes to VAT because of the capacity for fraud in sales tax systems.

DM

[DrFfybes]

Carefully targeted demographic there, perhaps?

I believe it would be reasonable as a matter of long term policy to periodically adjust the Higher Rate threshold so that no more than x% of taxpayers fell into it. If the country gets richer with more higher earners, that threshold increases.

I agree that the bands should shift, and the higher rate band has just gone up nearly 8% this year from £46351 to £50000, compared to a 5.5% rise in the personal allowance.

There was also a similar adjustment of the NI rate bands so employees now pay 12% up to £50004 this year, which if BJ is carrying on this trend means that beneficiaries of the policy will save 20% tax but probably pay 12% NI, so it would "only" be an extra £200/month in the pocket of people earning £80 - £150k. rather than the £500 the headline rate suggests.

Paul

[UncleEbenezer]

There was also a similar adjustment of the NI rate bands so employees now pay 12% up to £50004 this year, which if BJ is carrying on this trend means that beneficiaries of the policy will save 20% tax but probably pay 12% NI, so it would "only" be an extra £200/month in the pocket of people earning £80 - £150k. rather than the £500 the headline rate suggests.

Paul

NI is only payable on hard-earned income.
Now what demographic is particularly overrepresented in Boris's prospective leadership-last-two electorate?

[scotia]

NI is only payable on hard-earned income.
Now what demographic is particularly overrepresented in Boris's prospective leadership-last-two electorate?

Just in case the younger sector are unaware - we pensioners do not pay NI - and we are probably the largest consumer of its largesse.
So the poor youngsters without a Bank of Mum & Dad who are repaying student debt and are struggling to afford a mortgage probably feel pretty hard done by - especially if they now have to face an increase in NI to help out wealthy pensioners!