Petition the government no NHS negotiations

[Slarti]

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/242300

I, for one don't want American style lack of healthcare.

Slarti

[richfool]

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/242300

I, for one don't want American style lack of healthcare.

Slarti

I don't see any point in telling parliament what they already know and feel equally strongly about.

[paulnumbers]

Aren't parts of the NHS already outsourced? How exactly would it differ with American companies getting involved? Are they currently blocked?

[UncleEbenezer]

Aren't parts of the NHS already outsourced? How exactly would it differ with American companies getting involved? Are they currently blocked?

Longish discussion of this on t'wireless earlier. US pharma are lobbying hard to prevent the NHS using its monopoly power to haggle drug prices down, or to refuse to use a drug that's too overpriced.

I suspect the 'merkins will allow this one to be negotiated away. They're more concerned about the agri-biotech lobby getting us to drop our food standards. Hence Trump's desire to meet up with Gove, who on Jan.5th ruled out accepting food imports to lower standards.

[vrdiver]

I used to think that getting more privatisation into the NHS would be a good thing as it would drive efficiency and eliminate waste, but now I'm not so sure. The other side of that coin being, of course, to put profits before patients. Privatisation could, in some situations, end up looking like the prison service debacle, with costs being cut and short-term company advantage outweighing long-term patient interests.

It's bad enough within the NHS as it is now, with limited budgets and ever-rising demands (a function of success; live patients often come back for more NHS resources compared with dead patients...) but do something like create competition to win hospital management contracts with the lowest bid and I can't imagine it will end well.

We (the UK) need to work out what the remit of the NHS really is. Preventative care, education, mental health, social care, or just patch-em-up-and-send-em-back as we currently seem to do? Privatisation is no substitute for difficult decisions and joined up thinking.

VRD

[paulnumbers]

Aren't parts of the NHS already outsourced? How exactly would it differ with American companies getting involved? Are they currently blocked?

Longish discussion of this on t'wireless earlier. US pharma are lobbying hard to prevent the NHS using its monopoly power to haggle drug prices down, or to refuse to use a drug that's too overpriced.

I suspect the 'merkins will allow this one to be negotiated away. They're more concerned about the agri-biotech lobby getting us to drop our food standards. Hence Trump's desire to meet up with Gove, who on Jan.5th ruled out accepting food imports to lower standards.

Oh I see, interesting.

Do you remember what program it was? Wouldn't mind a listen.

[monabri]

I don't need to know the ins and outs of this..it will not be beneficial for the people of Great Britain...any negotiations with the US are for their benefit only.

Any other trade negotiations...ditto!

[Slarti]

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/242300

I, for one don't want American style lack of healthcare.

Slarti

I don't see any point in telling parliament what they already know and feel equally strongly about.

I'd question if the party in power at the moment knows what we(I) feel, and suspect that their only strong feelings about the NHS are how much money they can make from cutting it up.

Slarti

[dionaeamuscipula]

I used to think that getting more privatisation into the NHS would be a good thing as it would drive efficiency and eliminate waste, but now I'm not so sure.

The NHS is far more efficient and cost effective than healthcare in the US. Generally with better outcomes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42950587

The NHS is IIRC excluded from the EU requirement to put public expenditures out for competitive tender.

DM

[Slarti]

Aren't parts of the NHS already outsourced? How exactly would it differ with American companies getting involved? Are they currently blocked?

Yes parts of it are already outsourced and are mainly costing more than when done inhouse.

What I am afraid of is the wholesale dismantling of healthcare free at the point of delivery and it being replaced by the American insurance model, something that the former Health Minister and current front runner in Parliament for leadership of the Tory party wrote a book proposing.

Slarti

[Slarti]

I used to think that getting more privatisation into the NHS would be a good thing as it would drive efficiency and eliminate waste

Try following some Americans on the subject. Almost 2/3 of bankruptcies in the USA are from medical costs. Insulin costs over £200 a vial https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47491964

Also, if you look at cost/efficiency statistics generally, America comes out as most expensive, by a long way, with a much lower level of good outcomes.

or just patch-em-up-and-send-em-back as we currently seem to do

Well as someone on long term preventative medication, with a wife on other long term preventative medication a cousin with MS who has been supported for for over 40 years and a son who when it was discovered he had a brain tumour was patched up and then given appropriate follow up treatment for the next 5 years, I don't see it the same way as you.

Oh, and as best I can tell, my son's brain tumour wouldn't have been covered in the USA and would have bankrupted our family, if we could even have got the money together to treat it.

Slarti

[monabri]

Pfizer.....

https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-amer ... 51uq6.html

All down to money!

[monabri]

70,500 signatures so far.

( includes mine and the wife's)

[Lootman]

The NHS is far more efficient and cost effective than healthcare in the US. Generally with better outcomes.

May I speculate that you have never had healthcare in the US?

Because I have and it was far better than in the UK. I have also had superior healthcare in two other countries. This weird obsession that British people have with the NHS is beyond my comprehension.

[dionaeamuscipula]

The NHS is far more efficient and cost effective than healthcare in the US. Generally with better outcomes.

May I speculate that you have never had healthcare in the US?

Because I have and it was far better than in the UK. I have also had superior healthcare in two other countries. This weird obsession that British people have with the NHS is beyond my comprehension.

You are correct. I do have experience of the US health system in other ways.

There are many things wrong with the NHS. Many of them would be solved by spending a greater percentage of GDP on healthcare*. Not many of them would be solved by allowing the US health systems greater access.

DM

*funded by pensions reform and lower defence expenditure, plus replacing PFI financing structures with government borrowing and no, I haven't looked hard at the practicality of these or whether the savings can match the added expenditure, but neither do I think it fair to call for greater expenditure on something without outlining how that expenditure should be funded.

[Slarti]

The NHS is far more efficient and cost effective than healthcare in the US. Generally with better outcomes.

May I speculate that you have never had healthcare in the US?

Because I have and it was far better than in the UK. I have also had superior healthcare in two other countries. This weird obsession that British people have with the NHS is beyond my comprehension.

You may speculate and you would be wrong, sort of.

I had to find a medic to be advised on the correct meds to buy, then buy the meds and the price which was, luckily covered by my travel insurance was ridiculous. From memory, over £3,000 and the exchange rate was better then.

The thing is, if you can afford the good service in the states, yes it is very good, but the majority of Americans can't and have to rely on charity, if they are lucky.

And they get ripped off, see my earlier comment on the price of insulin, something that has gone up over 5,000% in recent years all of which is profit for the company producing it.

Slarti

[paulnumbers]

The NHS is far more efficient and cost effective than healthcare in the US. Generally with better outcomes.

May I speculate that you have never had healthcare in the US?

Because I have and it was far better than in the UK. I have also had superior healthcare in two other countries. This weird obsession that British people have with the NHS is beyond my comprehension.

Have to say I agree, if you have good insurance.

I was in the US with my better half, and she had a minor issue. In the UK, it would have been a wait of a week, maybe a few days off work. In the US, it was an uber to the nearest healthcenter (2 minutes), seen pretty much immediately, dealt with, back at work same day.

Why we put up with the the NHS in it's current form I have no idea.

[Lootman]

The NHS is far more efficient and cost effective than healthcare in the US. Generally with better outcomes.

May I speculate that you have never had healthcare in the US?

Because I have and it was far better than in the UK. I have also had superior healthcare in two other countries. This weird obsession that British people have with the NHS is beyond my comprehension.

You may speculate and you would be wrong, sort of.

I had to find a medic to be advised on the correct meds to buy, then buy the meds and the price which was, luckily covered by my travel insurance was ridiculous. From memory, over £3,000 and the exchange rate was better then.

The thing is, if you can afford the good service in the states, yes it is very good, but the majority of Americans can't and have to rely on charity, if they are lucky.

And they get ripped off, see my earlier comment on the price of insulin, something that has gone up over 5,000% in recent years all of which is profit for the company producing it.

In my experience the US system is better not only if you have money but also if you have insurance. For instance as a patient I was able to choose my consultant, my hospital, the date and time of my procedure with no wait or queue, and I had a lovely private room with TV, internet, good food etc. Way better than the NHS.

I'm not saying abolish the NHS. There is a place for it and even the US has MediCare and MediCaid. But surely millions - maybe tens of millions - of British people can afford insurance and private care. Why not have a dual system?

[Lootman]

You can buy private healthcare insurance in the UK if you really want to.

I know but it is very limited because the NHS crowds out the private competition. It is a near monopoly.

How about a vibrant private system for the 50% plus of the population who can afford it, along US lines? And the NHS can be retained only for those who need it i.e. the poor, the old, children etc?

The idea that we can give unlimited free healthcare to everyone all the time is doomed and unsustainable.

[Slarti]

Have to say I agree, if you have good insurance.

I was in the US with my better half, and she had a minor issue. In the UK, it would have been a wait of a week, maybe a few days off work. In the US, it was an uber to the nearest healthcenter (2 minutes), seen pretty much immediately, dealt with, back at work same day.

Why we put up with the the NHS in it's current form I have no idea.

We put up with it in its current form because this government, the coalition and "New" labour before that have starved it of the necessary funds, while bringing in obviously stupid ideas like PFI.

If we upped it's funding to amywhere near what the Americans pay per head it could be a wonderful service. But I suspect that is not what many of our politicians want to happen.

Slarti