Banks

[Leothebear]

In my own experience and from various friends who run small businesses; I can honestly say I know nobody who felt their banks were helpful in keeping and growing their business. On the contrary most have found the banks an unhelpful obstacle. When the going got tough. the banks usually wanted their money.

I heard a discussion on R4 this morning where it was revealed that the banks only allocate 2 - 3% of their funds to small business.

I know many of you on here run your own concerns. Can any of you provide a better illustration of the banks' usefulness?

[dealtn]

The claim for not much lending to small businesses can be attributed to the fact that they are, er, small, and even in aggregate don't constitute a large demand for money. If/when they grow they tend to have an increasing demand for finance reflecting their growth. I guess it comes down to a definition of what constitutes "small".

A quick look at the balance sheet of Lloyds Bank reveals "Loans and Advances to customers" of £444.4bn, which is helpfully broken down into categories. Within that SME is £31.8bn, so make of that what you will with respect to the 2-3% claim. For comparison "mid market" is about the same at £31.7bn and Global Corporate not much different at £34.4bn.

[sg31]

I'm retired now and I can honestly say I have never found banks helpful in running any of my businesses other than providing a basic bank account.

.

[Slarti]

I'm retired now and I can honestly say I have never found banks helpful in running any of my businesses other than providing a basic bank account.

.

Ditto

Slarti

[bungeejumper]

A quick look at the balance sheet of Lloyds Bank reveals "Loans and Advances to customers" of £444.4bn, which is helpfully broken down into categories. Within that SME is £31.8bn, so make of that what you will with respect to the 2-3% claim. For comparison "mid market" is about the same at £31.7bn and Global Corporate not much different at £34.4bn.

Methinks we're not talking about small company borrowers at all here. The standard European definition of an SME is (and I quote): "an enterprise which employs fewer than 250 persons and which has an annual turnover not exceeding 50 million euro, and/or an annual balance sheet total not exceeding 43 million euro."

The OP's comment "that the banks only allocate 2 - 3% of their funds to small business" doesn't seem to be disqualified by the £32.8 bn lending figure for all SMEs. If my small business had ever been in danger of employing 250 people or of notching up a 50 million euro turnover, I suppose I might think differently.

BJ

[Leothebear]

The contention on the percentage of bank funding for small businesses, is a side issue to an extent. 2-3% was what I quoted from the radio discussion and if that's not accurate then - sorry. My main thrust was to ascertain whether any Fools had actually found the bank a helpful factor in the growth and health of their business.

[bungeejumper]

My main thrust was to ascertain whether any Fools had actually found the bank a helpful factor in the growth and health of their business.

Oh, absolutely. Once a year, I would be called in at worryingly short notice for an urgent meeting with the area business manager. Who would sit me down in his/her office and try to sell me expensive loans that I didn't want, or insurance that didn't meet my needs. Really piling on the pressure.

The positive impact on my business was that I quickly became much better at telling my bank (or others) to sod off. Eventually they stopped doing it. Win-win.

BJ

[simsqu]

Oh, absolutely. Once a year, I would be called in at worryingly short notice for an urgent meeting with the area business manager. Who would sit me down in his/her office and try to sell me expensive loans that I didn't want, or insurance that didn't meet my needs. Really piling on the pressure.

BJ

A post I once made in The Other Place comes to mind, which I reproduce here. I wonder if it is still as relevant today as it was then?

In your FACE Snorvey

"Look, I know nothing about banks other than what I read in Private Eye, but on Friday afternoon last, I looked into the stupid, grinning face of the banking system, and was chilled to the very core of my being.

Back in…oooh let me see…1302 or some such, when I first got a bank account, I remember going to the bank to arrange an overdraft. The National Provincial Bank it was. Large, imposing building on the high street. Huge high ceilings, marble flooring, wood panelling everywhere, smell of polish, massive impressive chandeliers.

Slightly nervous, I was ushered into the back to see the bank manager. Big office, leather chairs. Avuncular type with half-moon glasses, an amused, yet incredibly knowledgeable expression on his face, as he says, “sit down, sit down, young fella-me-lad, and let’s see if we can sort you out, eh? Eh?”

Anyway.

Last week I got a call from the bank. From Tracey, my Personal Financial Business Advisor, the quaint old expression "bank manager" having long gone the way of expressions such as “Home Counties North“. The business overdraft facility is due for renewal in December. Could I pop in to have a chat?

So I take along my latest accounts, work out a few cash flow predictions…gross profit…even keel…recession…tricky year to come…good working capital…batten down the hatches etc etc etc.

In I go. Up a narrow flight of stairs into a grey grey grey grey grey grey dull ubiquitous clone of any office you care to mention, décor by Travelodge of Doncaster, and am shown into a cubicle, where I sit down opposite Tracey.

So I start. “I’d like to renew the facility of course, not that I have used it much this year, but if you look at these cash flow projections…” is as far as I get.

“Well, I’m sure you’re doing fine.” She really said that. She is sure I am doing fine. OK, she’s got my bank account activity there, but that’s it. I have met her precisely once before, 18 months ago. She knows nothing about my business, my profit, turnover, products, anything. But she’s sure I am doing fine. The cash going through my bank account could be the ill gotten gains of a crack cocaine and white slave trading cartel, but she’s sure I am doing fine.

She gets out her huge checklist and starts in. “Now do you have a pension in place? We have a division here that can advise you on all pension provisions”

“Well, I was thinking of making a lump sum nearer the end of the Tax Year, but my accountants…”

“Ooh, no, you don’t want to leave it that late. Let me get Kamil on the phone…” she gets out her mobile and rings Kamil. Thrusts the phone at me, and I’m suddenly having a conversation about pensions with the over-enthusiastic, over sincere Kamil. From his tone, he could have been trying to sell me a 1976 Austin Allegro.

After I‘ve got rid of Kamil by promising to arrange a meeting with him by the twelfth (OF NEVER), Tracey ploughs inexorably on. “How about Health and Safety Issues? Have you got all your staff on contracts? Are you up to date with all the Employment Law? It’s a minefield nowadays you know. For example, some people make a living at taking employers to court. You don’t want to let some disgruntled employee bankrupt you, do you?

“Well, of course…”

“Now we can arrange all the contracts, update you with all the relevant law, sort out court cases, pay lawyers fees, all for a very reasonable monthly sum.”

“Er…”

“I’ll arrange for Steve to call you. What’s your mobile?“

“I don’t have a mobile phone.“

For the one and only time throughout the entire hellish interrogation, she is momentarily silent.

“Oh. Oh, okay, well I‘ll give him your business number. Do you need a loan? What was the last capital item you financed?”

“Well, I bought a new van recently”

“How did you finance it?”

“I paid cash”

(Horrified) “CASH???“

“Yes, cash”

“But we could have arranged financing!!”

“Well, I had the cash. It’s cheaper that way”

“Yes, but if you’d arranged financing with us, you could have still had the cash!”

“What good would that do me?”

“Well, you could have bought something!!”

“I DID!! - I BOUGHT A VAN!!! “

Completely undaunted, she turns round and shouts “Sanjiv!!”

In comes a spotty, sharp suited, black shirted, spiky hair-gelled adolescent

"Mr S just bought a van - for cash!!“ says Tracey

Sanjiv looks as though I’ve just taken my todger out and pissed over his gold tie pin

"For cash??!! We could have saved you all that cash by financing. Or have you considered leasing? It’s not too late you know, we can still finance the van. Give you back the cash and sort out a hire purchase arrangement for you. Even let you have more cash than you paid for it! When's your next capital purchase? Let me send you some financing details. How much would you like? Here’s my card. Tracey'll give me your business number.I’ll call you in a few days to arrange a visit” and he’s gone.

And so it went on. I would have gladly grabbed Tracey by her multi-studded ears and pushed her grinning face through her computer screen, except, as she of course fully realised, I needed to renew the overdraft with this second hand car dealership of a bank.

Finally, finally, the onslaught finishes, and almost as an afterthought, she renews the overdraft.

At every turn, as she tried to thrust money or services at me, I managed to parry the attempt, always falling back on the need for caution. And at the end, after all her attempts had failed, or at least been put on hold, she looked at me, sighed, scolded me for being so cautious, and then her stupid face broke out into a grin as she said, “best to look on the bright side.”

Holy Mary Mother of God. That’s the banking strategy is it? Look on the bright side? The Bank of Monty Python is being crucified, and their policy is to Look on The Bright Side?

And the thing that exasperated them most of all was that I didn’t want to borrow any money. They were desperate to sell me money, and they didn’t really know my finances from Adam

Er…isn’t that where we came in?"

[stevensfo]

Oh, absolutely. Once a year, I would be called in at worryingly short notice for an urgent meeting with the area business manager. Who would sit me down in his/her office and try to sell me expensive loans that I didn't want, or insurance that didn't meet my needs. Really piling on the pressure.

BJ

A post I once made in The Other Place comes to mind, which I reproduce here. I wonder if it is still as relevant today as it was then?
In your FACE Snorvey
"Look, I know nothing about banks other than what I read in Private Eye, but on Friday afternoon last, I looked into the stupid, grinning face of the banking system, and was chilled to the very core of my being.
Back in…oooh let me see…1302 or some such, when I first got a bank account, I remember going to the bank to arrange an overdraft. The National Provincial Bank it was. Large, imposing building on the high street. Huge high ceilings, marble flooring, wood panelling everywhere, smell of polish, massive impressive chandeliers.
Er…isn’t that where we came in?"

I'm about as far removed from High Finance as you can get and most of my financial education came from TMF, the Financial Crisis (which I missed) and TLF.

My very first bank was Barclays and I still remember the feeling of pride, aged 18, on being given my own Banking Partner/supervisor (memory fails me here but she was very pretty) and the nice warm sensation of having my student grant in a major bank.

Fast forward four decades, a lot wiser and a lot more cynical and I can't believe that Barclays is still in existence and the bosses not serving life sentences. A simple internet search of your bank and 'Money laundering' , 'Terrorism', Illegal', 'Fraudulent' etc will reveal quite a lot.

I love it when I read things like 'Credit rating'. Er....yours or the bank's?


Steve

[Lootman]

an urgent meeting with the area business manager. Who would sit me down in his/her office and try to sell me expensive loans that I didn't want, or insurance that didn't meet my needs.

Walk into any branch and there is a long queue for the human tellers, but any number of under-employed dweebs mulling around in cheap suits willing to instantly sit down with you and sell you insurance or an ISA.

I usually prefer a human teller as I always specify my denominations. The other day for the very first time, a human teller refused to give me the cash I wanted (80 in twenties) telling me instead to use the machine as that is what it would give me. I went to the machine, asked for 80 and got 8 tens.

Next time I will stand my ground.

My very first bank was Barclays and I still remember the feeling of pride, aged 18, on being given my own Banking Partner/supervisor (memory fails me here but she was very pretty) and the nice warm sensation of having my student grant in a major bank.

Fast forward four decades, a lot wiser and a lot more cynical and I can't believe that Barclays is still in existence and the bosses not serving life sentences. A simple internet search of your bank and 'Money laundering' , 'Terrorism', Illegal', 'Fraudulent' etc will reveal quite a lot.

It is almost exactly 50 years ago I opened my first bank account, coincidentally also with Barclays, although it was actually Martin's Bank at the time, later to merge with Barclays.

There were student protests in the 1970s against Barclays because of their South African interests. I dumped them before I dumped being a Leftie about the time I cut my hair from nipple length to neck length, in order to get a job. A career that ended up with me working for Barclays, for 5 years anyway.

Last time I went into a Barclays branch there were no human tellers unless you had a business account. Just a wall of machines. Although of course they need to employ people to tell us how to use the machines.

Madness.

[tjh290633]

Back in 1952, at the start of the Queen's reign, the RAF provided new officers, who did not already have a bank account, with one. If your name began with A to R you were placed with Lloyds Bank, Cox's and King's branch in Pall Mall. Those with S to Z went to Glyn Mills and Co. who might only have had one bank at the time.

I never visited my bank, who looked after my £16 per month, because you could cash a cheque at any bank if you showed your Form 1250. After I was demobbed, I moved my account to our local branch. They still provided handwritten statements at that time, and you had to have an arrangement to cash cheques at another branch, if you went on holiday for example. I had one with the branch at Carfax in Oxford for several years.

Naturally you were "known" at your home branch, where the counter clerks (never tellers) would recognise you and greet you by name. Buying or selling shares involved going to your branch and giving them instructions. They would look after your share certificates for you, and these served as security for your overdraft or loan.

Those were the days.

TJH

[AsleepInYorkshire]

In my own experience and from various friends who run small businesses; I can honestly say I know nobody who felt their banks were helpful in keeping and growing their business. On the contrary most have found the banks an unhelpful obstacle. When the going got tough. the banks usually wanted their money.

I heard a discussion on R4 this morning where it was revealed that the banks only allocate 2 - 3% of their funds to small business.

I know many of you on here run your own concerns. Can any of you provide a better illustration of the banks' usefulness?

Statistically (and they may have changed since) about 67% of all "new" business' fail within the first three years. I don't know why. There are probably a million reasons why they do. I also read somewhere that about 50% of all of Richard Branson's business' fail. I suppose this tends to make lending to business a pretty risky affair?

Whilst I'm not a great fan of banks and I can't recall a time when I felt they have been great I've never found them to be averse to discussing lending to small business'. Indeed they helped my Mum & Dad to purchase a "very" small business. Dad (and I'm sure he will allow me to say this, rather fortuitously passed away before the loan was repaid and the loan insurance kicked in leaving Mum debt free). Dad passed away in 1990.

Overall I think banks do generally get some very bad press. I suspect they lost their grip on reality somewhere between 1990 and 2008. I don't know if it was an overnight issue or, more likely it was a gradual race to the bottom.

I can't sit here and say hand on heart I am a massive fan of banks. But on the reverse side I can't say I dont know of an occassion when they have not helped someone I know.

I would hesitate to suggest that the banks low lending to small business may be a result of their perception of risk or if you prefer risk/reward ratio. And the banks shareholders and employees rely on healthy margins accordingly. I would also suggest that banks are a reflection of the statistics they are asked "to bet against". That's 66.6% of new business failing within three years and Richard Branson (an example analogy of big business) treating them to a reduced failure rate of 50%.

We all (and I voiced myself out of every pulpit in the land) blamed the banks for the 2007-8 banking crisis. But in reality we all sat and allowed it to happen ... generalising to make a point, which is, I believe, we cannot blame the banks entirely for "something" which was much more widespread.

I'll fess up. When Gordon Brown said the banks had found the elixa for lending I didn't doubt him for too long. I wanted to believe we were all going to get out of the poverty trap and "I so believed"

I genuinely wish I could say I have no knowledge of banks helping small business. But I can't.

AiY

[scotia]

My experiences with banks started in the early 60s, but some of the manners and mores of the 50s as described by TJH still continued. Just before we got married, my wife-to-be instructed her bank to transfer her account, with its contents, to my bank and my account. This resulted in an interview with her bank manager, who wanted to ensure that this young lass was not handing over her worldly wealth to a fly-by-night male. She managed to persuade him that all was in order - and I'm still around 50 years later.

[AsleepInYorkshire]

an urgent meeting with the area business manager. Who would sit me down in his/her office and try to sell me expensive loans that I didn't want, or insurance that didn't meet my needs.

Walk into any branch and there is a long queue for the human tellers, but any number of under-employed dweebs mulling around in cheap suits willing to instantly sit down with you and sell you insurance or an ISA.

I usually prefer a human teller as I always specify my denominations. The other day for the very first time, a human teller refused to give me the cash I wanted (80 in twenties) telling me instead to use the machine as that is what it would give me. I went to the machine, asked for 80 and got 8 tens.

Next time I will stand my ground.

My very first bank was Barclays and I still remember the feeling of pride, aged 18, on being given my own Banking Partner/supervisor (memory fails me here but she was very pretty) and the nice warm sensation of having my student grant in a major bank.

Fast forward four decades, a lot wiser and a lot more cynical and I can't believe that Barclays is still in existence and the bosses not serving life sentences. A simple internet search of your bank and 'Money laundering' , 'Terrorism', Illegal', 'Fraudulent' etc will reveal quite a lot.

It is almost exactly 50 years ago I opened my first bank account, coincidentally also with Barclays, although it was actually Martin's Bank at the time, later to merge with Barclays.

There were student protests in the 1970s against Barclays because of their South African interests. I dumped them before I dumped being a Leftie about the time I cut my hair from nipple length to neck length, in order to get a job. A career that ended up with me working for Barclays, for 5 years anyway.

Last time I went into a Barclays branch there were no human tellers unless you had a business account. Just a wall of machines. Although of course they need to employ people to tell us how to use the machines.

Madness.

I bank on the internet. On the few occasions I have visited branch there have been plenty of staff and machines and smiles all around. There are more staff than machines. They have got that bit bang on. The place is always clean and tidy - but their company colours are rank . Their internet banking is very good - if you can remember all the passwords and codes to login. Whoops - that's what banks do though - they protect Their loan rates aren't great and they don't pay a great deal of interest on savings.

I can't say which bank I am with as they just don't pay me enough

But - I wouldn't be surprised if they were ultimately "sold off" by their parent Group.

AiY

[sunnyjoe]

My experiences with banks started in the early 60s, but some of the manners and mores of the 50s as described by TJH still continued. Just before we got married, my wife-to-be instructed her bank to transfer her account, with its contents, to my bank and my account. This resulted in an interview with her bank manager, who wanted to ensure that this young lass was not handing over her worldly wealth to a fly-by-night male. She managed to persuade him that all was in order - and I'm still around 50 years later.

In the 80s, as a recent graduate with a job, I popped in to my bank branch (on the university campus) to see about their offer of an interest free loan for new graduates. When the manageress (how progressive) asked me the purpose of the loan, I said I wanted to buy an engagement ring. At this point she told me that I could have had an interest free loan to buy a car or some other career related expense, but marriage would be subject to the usual interest.

[didds]

I usually prefer a human teller as I always specify my denominations. The other day for the very first time, a human teller refused to give me the cash I wanted (80 in twenties) telling me instead to use the machine as that is what it would give me. I went to the machine, asked for 80 and got 8 tens.

Next time I will stand my ground.

indeed. I wrote this several years ago which is in line with all the frustrations above in one way shape or form... Its on my very occasional blog (8 posts in 8 years...) but rather than link to it which has for some bizarre reason raised issues with admin here and/or TMF (cant recall which) I reproduce it in full below

didds

---

"HSBC isn't working", or "Banking Breaking Point".
HSBC bank. What a waste of space. I have merely to pay three cheques into two accounts.

I arrive. Upstairs, the queue for proper person to person pay-ins is looking like Nigel Farage's immigration poster, or Thatcher's "Labour isn't working" poster back in the 1970s. I harbour a sneaking suspicion some of the people at the front of the queue are the remnants of Thatcher's queue that was redirected to this bank teller's position without that knowledge. Or maybe even the last vestiges of the Jarrow march that similarly and unknowingly got redirected to Devizes.

So I venture back downstairs where the automated pay-in machines reside. The pathetically inadequate "self serve pay-in" machine won't take the pay-ins. I try several times with the various pieces of paper in different orders and ways up etc. It's still not taking them. It hates me. I can tell. It mocks me with its insistent beeping noise and teases me by asking for my bank card for the bank account details. Then spits it all out and laughingly refers me to a member of staff to assist me. Except there are no members of staff downstairs, where "Radio HSBC Braindead" is playing just-oh-so-slightly-too-loud with its cheery banterous and jocular invitations to take out vast swathes of credit interspersed with the sort of musical tracks that not even Radio SadTwats won't play.

No doubt the members of staff that are not available to assist are on their lunch break. Which is fair enough. Except that it is clearly beyond the wit of HSBC to realise that the busiest time of the day is likely to be when everybody else is at lunch and needing some reasonable expeditious service. My how I chortled to myself at this oversight.

I return upstairs, defeated by my nemesis of self service automated machines. Upstairs has only two tellers. Because of course HSBC only has two teller positions. They don't need any more of course because the automated self service machines downstairs means nobody needs real life tellers really. I sigh.

The "real world and people" tellers i.e. actual human beings, have a queue six people long now. Thatcher has put the rest to work, or Farage has put them onto an overcrowded boat and sent them out to sea. And the Jarrovians have just withered and died and are but dust on the breeze of the just-too-cold air-conditioning.

Eventually I get to the front. There's a guy on the left taking out his life savings and needing to supply a thousand security proofs to do so. And a woman on the right on holiday that is insisting on telling the teller her life history and holiday plans. Eventually the woman on the right has finished with her great-aunt's lumbago story. She is finished. Well, she takes a breath which is all the teller needs to interject. But then the interjecting teller starts to give holiday woman a sales spiel about an advanced account that holiday woman could transfer to. This takes a few minutes. Holiday woman acquiesces and is directed to wait in a nearby chair for someone to attend her. Holiday woman moves away and the teller's window is available. At last.

I step to the window. "Sorry Sir, I have to attend to something for a few minutes. Please wait."

My life flashes before me. will I ever see my wife and children again? Will I end up on some politician's banner one day making a heavy and unsubtle point? I step back to the queue. The head of which is now held by a woman with a walker. She has to then awkwardly reverse with said walker so I can "stay behind the line". Its an unedifying position and the entire rest of the queue jostles backwards, including travel-agent-chat man who is loudly talking on his mobile phone to somebody who is in a travel agents. Its marginally worse than listening to "Radio HSBC Braindead".

I wait. Eons pass. Life savings man has now got to answer a question about his great-grandfather's dog's favourite walk. I wonder if he will actually pass away before getting his mitts on his savings. Or he will fail at the final hurdle because his DNA doesn't match an alleged ancestor from the times of the Dark Ages.

I wait some more. A lot more.

Eventually life savings man has passed the Spanish inquisition and walks off with a cheap plastic shopping bag stuffed with notes. He wouldn't last 30 seconds in Streatham. Good job this isn't Streatham.

I step forward. "How can I help you" asks the other teller

I count to ten. I briefly and curtly request to pay the cheques in. She inquires about the automated pay-in machines; she catches my less than delighted visage. She quietens and processes the cheques and paying in slips. The paying in process takes less than a minute.

I have reached nirvana.

Now I am finally completed, outside the seasons have changed and my children are now adults. There's a new monarch on the throne and Brexit has still not completed. I notice a political poster in the wall of the new building that has somehow sprung up since I entered the bank. "Bojo's Dry Cleaning". The poster has a long, winding queue of people in it. I am sure I can see myself somewhere towards the back.

(c) Ian Diddams 2017

[UncleEbenezer]

Is your HSBC making a valiant effort to take the place of a closed Post Office?

I've always said, the Post Office is somewhere you join the queue when you leave school, and reach the front just in time to collect your pension.

[Watis]

My first job was with a life assurance company in the City of London who banked with Coutts. A benefit of that relationship was that employees could also bank with Coutts free of bank charges.

I needed a bank account so an appointment was made and I went along at the agreed time. I was met by a uniformed doorman who took me through marbled halls up to a spacious and sumptuous wood panelled office where I was interviewed by a bank manager, who no doubt stressed the importance of probity in matters financial.

While I banked with Coutts it was fun to pay for stuff by whipping out my Coutts chequebook and see the reaction it got!

Unfortunately, when I changed jobs I had to close the account to avoid incurring bank charges.

Watis

[GoSeigen]

I usually prefer a human teller as I always specify my denominations. The other day for the very first time, a human teller refused to give me the cash I wanted (80 in twenties) telling me instead to use the machine as that is what it would give me. I went to the machine, asked for 80 and got 8 tens.

Next time I will stand my ground.

indeed. I wrote this several years ago which is in line with all the frustrations above in one way shape or form... Its on my very occasional blog (8 posts in 8 years...) but rather than link to it which has for some bizarre reason raised issues with admin here and/or TMF (cant recall which) I reproduce it in full below

didds

---

"HSBC isn't working", or "Banking Breaking Point".
HSBC bank. What a waste of space. I have merely to pay three cheques into two accounts.

Funny, I needed to pay three cheques into HSBC a couple of weeks ago. I paid them in using the App on my wife's phone while she was buying her train ticket. She had to run I tell you: we arrived at the station about 4 minutes before the train's departure!

Anyway, paid in the cheques, ran inside to give wifey her phone and then, back home later that evening, confirmed online that the payments had cleared properly.


Why do people put themselves through the agony of a branch visit I wonder?


GS

[Lootman]

Why do people put themselves through the agony of a branch visit I wonder?

It's probably an old school thing but I prefer to conduct financial business in person wherever possible. Not sharedealing, of course, which is impossible to do in person any more, if it ever was. But for normal banking I like to go to the branch (it helps that it is very close to my house).

And as mentioned before, I am picky about the denominations I get. I sometimes want £50 notes, which the machines generally will not issue. At other times I want a mix of denominations and ask to withdraw odd amounts, like £99.

In fact I don't have online banking, let alone an "app" on my phone. I had to cancel a standing order the other day and went into my local NatWest to perform that. It took quite an effort to convince the Greeter to have them do this. She kept wanting to show me how "easy" it would be for me to do it myself on my phone. Eventually I was sat down whereupon someone else led me into their office, where she too tried to talk me into online banking and an app. I firmly declined and she eventually cancelled the SO and gave me a paper receipt to prove it.

And then I see their ad telling me about their "excellent" customer service.