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This evening's news

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Dod101
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This evening's news

#237079

Postby Dod101 » July 16th, 2019, 7:10 pm

I must say that I found the BBC News this evening to be a bit more uplifting than usual (Maybe the absence of the B word helped) Particularly I thought the piece last evening and tonight about the separating of the cojoined twins was amazing. It is quite something what our surgeons can do and I have no idea of course who the donor was who provided the funds for this to be undertaken but the joy on the mother's face and the skill of the surgeons on display was I thought quite inspiring.

The other item was report about the attack at Borough Market when we saw a number of unarmed PCs doing what they could to distract the attackers whilst awaiting the firearms squad and the unarmed civilians ditto. This was surely the best of humanity in action.

Dod

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Re: This evening's news

#237084

Postby UncleEbenezer » July 16th, 2019, 7:29 pm

We hear different things.

Re: the B-word - it put in an appearance in their coverage of the parliament voting on Mrs Von der Leyen.

Medical anecdote - your post is the first I've heard of whatever that was.

The terrorist incident: today's news as I heard it was an inquest verdict. Yes, various people both the public and police had acted heroically, but we knew that already. But WTF is the point of the inquest jury being taken from their regular lives to play civic games, only to be directed that there was only one verdict they could reach? Talk about a pointless and wasteful charade!

Itsallaguess
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Re: This evening's news

#237085

Postby Itsallaguess » July 16th, 2019, 7:38 pm

Dod101 wrote:
Particularly I thought the piece last evening and tonight about the separating of the cojoined twins was amazing.

It is quite something what our surgeons can do and I have no idea of course who the donor was who provided the funds for this to be undertaken but the joy on the mother's face and the skill of the surgeons on display was I thought quite inspiring.


It really is a fantastic story.

Such bravery from the girls, their families, and of course the brave surgeons who are willing to take on this type of really risky surgery.

For anyone not aware of this story, the BBC news site ran a really quite in-depth article yesterday that's well worth a read -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/PLNMqvmycN/conjoined-twins

They also have a more compact video article in today's news -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/health-48956943/conjoined-twins-how-doctors-separated-twins-joined-at-the-head

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

swill453
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Re: This evening's news

#237095

Postby swill453 » July 16th, 2019, 8:20 pm

UncleEbenezer wrote:The terrorist incident: today's news as I heard it was an inquest verdict. Yes, various people both the public and police had acted heroically, but we knew that already.

Today's news was the release of the police bodycam video, actually showing this in action. Showing for example a couple of bakers, armed only with bread baskets and a broom, pursuing the terrorists who had knives and possible suicide vests.

Brought it home a bit more.

Scott.

Itsallaguess
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Re: This evening's news

#237097

Postby Itsallaguess » July 16th, 2019, 8:24 pm

swill453 wrote:
UncleEbenezer wrote:
The terrorist incident: today's news as I heard it was an inquest verdict. Yes, various people both the public and police had acted heroically, but we knew that already.


Today's news was the release of the police bodycam video, actually showing this in action. Showing for example a couple of bakers, armed only with bread baskets and a broom, pursuing the terrorists who had knives and possible suicide vests.

Brought it home a bit more.


The bravery shown by both un-armed police and members of the public is nothing short of amazing when you watch the newly-released mobile footage -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-49009486/london-bridge-attacks-unseen-footage-from-the-scene

I hope the armed-response driver didn't get too much of a reprimand for leaving the hand-brake off.....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

AsleepInYorkshire
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Re: This evening's news

#237101

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » July 16th, 2019, 8:33 pm

Dod101 wrote:I must say that I found the BBC News this evening to be a bit more uplifting than usual (Maybe the absence of the B word helped) Particularly I thought the piece last evening and tonight about the separating of the cojoined twins was amazing. It is quite something what our surgeons can do and I have no idea of course who the donor was who provided the funds for this to be undertaken but the joy on the mother's face and the skill of the surgeons on display was I thought quite inspiring.

The other item was report about the attack at Borough Market when we saw a number of unarmed PCs doing what they could to distract the attackers whilst awaiting the firearms squad and the unarmed civilians ditto. This was surely the best of humanity in action.

Dod

Spooky. I had come here to post a little good news story that I had seen too.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-aus ... -by-divers
Deep-water divers Jake Wilton and Monty Halls formed an unlikely friendship with a manta ray after she appeared to ask them for help.

AiY

Dod101
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Re: This evening's news

#237103

Postby Dod101 » July 16th, 2019, 8:43 pm

UncleEbenezer wrote:We hear different things.

Re: the B-word - it put in an appearance in their coverage of the parliament voting on Mrs Von der Leyen.

Medical anecdote - your post is the first I've heard of whatever that was.

The terrorist incident: today's news as I heard it was an inquest verdict. Yes, various people both the public and police had acted heroically, but we knew that already. But WTF is the point of the inquest jury being taken from their regular lives to play civic games, only to be directed that there was only one verdict they could reach? Talk about a pointless and wasteful charade!


That's a shame UE because the medical anecdote was far from that. It was a medical milestone surely and far more than a mere incident. If you read what IAAG has posted surely that will become clear. It was on the BBC news last evening and tonight as well as reported in the Times today.

As to the inquest, well not all deaths need be cut and dried and the law is the law and is there for good reason. Would you prefer that the coroner is given a report and decides for himself? If it can be done for this case it can be done for all. I do not therefore call it a wasteful charade. The footage on TV this evening ought to be seen by all of us who call out the police for not acting very well. Damn it, would you want to be in their shoes?

Dod

AsleepInYorkshire
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Re: This evening's news

#237113

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » July 16th, 2019, 9:27 pm

Dod101 wrote:
UncleEbenezer wrote:We hear different things.

Re: the B-word - it put in an appearance in their coverage of the parliament voting on Mrs Von der Leyen.

Medical anecdote - your post is the first I've heard of whatever that was.

The terrorist incident: today's news as I heard it was an inquest verdict. Yes, various people both the public and police had acted heroically, but we knew that already. But WTF is the point of the inquest jury being taken from their regular lives to play civic games, only to be directed that there was only one verdict they could reach? Talk about a pointless and wasteful charade!


That's a shame UE because the medical anecdote was far from that. It was a medical milestone surely and far more than a mere incident. If you read what IAAG has posted surely that will become clear. It was on the BBC news last evening and tonight as well as reported in the Times today.

As to the inquest, well not all deaths need be cut and dried and the law is the law and is there for good reason. Would you prefer that the coroner is given a report and decides for himself? If it can be done for this case it can be done for all. I do not therefore call it a wasteful charade. The footage on TV this evening ought to be seen by all of us who call out the police for not acting very well. Damn it, would you want to be in their shoes?

Dod

I wonder if this goes to the heart of our judicial system. If someone who is paid to uphold the law takes a life then they cannot be treated any differently from the rest of us. We also need to reassure those who protect us that they will be fairly represented. Let's not forget that when an armed officer discharges their weapon and kills someone they will come under investigation. This thought alone will limit the number of individuals who want to carry out such a role. If I understand it correctly the officers who killed these terrorists will have been investigated by the IPCC.

I think there has been some change of policy regarding when officers can shoot and at what. The 1998 human rights act does give everyone a right to life.

Here’s when British police are legally allowed to shoot under a new policy on lethal force
http://theconversation.com/heres-when-b ... orce-76666
The police as an institution and the government’s responsibility for their actions are subject to human rights considerations; specifically the right to life in the Human Rights Act 1998 and the European Convention on Human Rights. This means the use of lethal force will only be justified where it is absolutely necessary.

AiY

swill453
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Re: This evening's news

#237145

Postby swill453 » July 16th, 2019, 10:57 pm

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:The police as an institution and the government’s responsibility for their actions are subject to human rights considerations; specifically the right to life in the Human Rights Act 1998 and the European Convention on Human Rights. This means the use of lethal force will only be justified where it is absolutely necessary.

I'd imagine that's not very different to what was in place before 1998.

Scott.

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Re: This evening's news

#237150

Postby Howyoudoin » July 16th, 2019, 11:21 pm

I guess I will have to be the bad guy again but I really don’t think it is fair to extend the lives of Siamese Twins.

The Doctors and Nurses here have a lot to answer for as there is ZERO quality of life for Siamese Twins from the moment that they are born.

It’s a real shame that their story is all over the news all over the World when in all likeliness they will both be dead within a year.

HYD

Dod101
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Re: This evening's news

#237158

Postby Dod101 » July 17th, 2019, 12:49 am

Howyoudoin wrote:I guess I will have to be the bad guy again but I really don’t think it is fair to extend the lives of Siamese Twins.

The Doctors and Nurses here have a lot to answer for as there is ZERO quality of life for Siamese Twins from the moment that they are born.

It’s a real shame that their story is all over the news all over the World when in all likeliness they will both be dead within a year.

HYD


You may or may not be correct of course but there was in the story on the BBC, a report of another pair of twins who had been separated successfully and appeared to be living a normal life. Surely in any case it is better to give the twins a chance of separate normal lives than to be cojoined at the head for whatever life they had. I am sure the mother will forever be grateful for what the British doctors did for her twins even if one or other or both do not survive for more than a year. I do not see the British doctors ever having 'a lot to answer for'. That seems to me to be harsh and in fact irrational.

Dod

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Re: This evening's news

#237197

Postby ReformedCharacter » July 17th, 2019, 9:29 am

Howyoudoin wrote:I guess I will have to be the bad guy again but I really don’t think it is fair to extend the lives of Siamese Twins.

The Doctors and Nurses here have a lot to answer for as there is ZERO quality of life for Siamese Twins from the moment that they are born.

It’s a real shame that their story is all over the news all over the World when in all likeliness they will both be dead within a year.

HYD

I don't think you're being the bad guy. My OH works with profoundly disabled children who have a very poor quality of life (as we would understand it) and limited life expectancy. Not many years ago these children would not have survived but medical advances now allow them to live. These children don't make the news like the Siamese twins do but the issue is the same. It is perhaps tasteless but true to mention that the financial cost of supporting these children for their often short lives can be immense. And given the limited resources of the health and education systems the money spent on them isn't available to be spent elsewhere. I don't think the doctors and nurses are to blame or have a lot to answer for, as you put it. It's an ethical minefield and the doctors and nurses have to work within legal and ethical constraints. The problem seems to me to be that it's a discussion that society in general doesn't want to have. Just look at the difficulties faced by compos mentis but highly disabled adults who wish to have an assisted death...

RC

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Re: This evening's news

#237219

Postby Slarti » July 17th, 2019, 10:41 am

Howyoudoin wrote:I guess I will have to be the bad guy again but I really don’t think it is fair to extend the lives of Siamese Twins.

The Doctors and Nurses here have a lot to answer for as there is ZERO quality of life for Siamese Twins from the moment that they are born.

It’s a real shame that their story is all over the news all over the World when in all likeliness they will both be dead within a year.

HYD


Have you read about the "original" Siamese twins?

Both marries, 10 children for one, 11 for the other and lived for 41 years, which was pretty reasonable in the mid 1800s.

Slarti

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Re: This evening's news

#237237

Postby sunnyjoe » July 17th, 2019, 12:04 pm

Howyoudoin wrote:I guess I will have to be the bad guy again but I really don’t think it is fair to extend the lives of Siamese Twins.

The Doctors and Nurses here have a lot to answer for as there is ZERO quality of life for Siamese Twins from the moment that they are born.

It’s a real shame that their story is all over the news all over the World when in all likeliness they will both be dead within a year.

HYD


I recently met Gracie Attard who is the survivor of conjoined twins who were separated in 2000. She is a lovely young woman with a bright future.

Dod101
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Re: This evening's news

#237239

Postby Dod101 » July 17th, 2019, 12:12 pm

RC has given a fair assessment of the situation. Frankly we could make your argument against treating an 85 year old for anything, or my wife who was diagnosed at the age of 56 with Myeloma, a terminal blood cancer. She died 3 1/2 years later. What a waste of money you would I suppose say.

If we do not ' take a chance' with medical advances insofar as society can afford them anyway, we will not get very far. Sorry but I see HYD's attitude as unhelpful at least and very harsh and not even grounded in any common sense.

Anyone who watched the news item on BBC could hardly have failed to have been moved by the reaction of the mother, and admiring of the doctors and nurses who carried out the operations. Sentimental nonsense maybe but it helps the world go round.

Dod

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Re: This evening's news

#237242

Postby scrumpyjack » July 17th, 2019, 12:16 pm

re the BBC news generally, I am often at a loss to understand how the editor chooses what is 'News' or the relative importance of the day's stories.

I recall reading many many years ago someone say that the job of the news editor is to make what is 'important' interesting. I really think the BBC have totally lost sight of that principle and the news is filled with absolute trivia. Maybe I am just getting even grumpier in my old age?

Anyway at least with Sky we never watch it live. We can fast forward through the trivial news stories, but frequently there's nothing left - not even the weather on weekends as the Beeb think there is no weather at the weekends!

Have to be careful what I say to one of my old friends as she was the editor of the BBC news 30 or so years ago and took us into the control room to watch it all being produced.

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Re: This evening's news

#237255

Postby Howyoudoin » July 17th, 2019, 1:23 pm

Dod101 wrote:RC has given a fair assessment of the situation. Frankly we could make your argument against treating an 85 year old for anything, or my wife who was diagnosed at the age of 56 with Myeloma, a terminal blood cancer. She died 3 1/2 years later. What a waste of money you would I suppose say.

If we do not ' take a chance' with medical advances insofar as society can afford them anyway, we will not get very far. Sorry but I see HYD's attitude as unhelpful at least and very harsh and not even grounded in any common sense.

Anyone who watched the news item on BBC could hardly have failed to have been moved by the reaction of the mother, and admiring of the doctors and nurses who carried out the operations. Sentimental nonsense maybe but it helps the world go round.

Dod



Interesting that you think RC 'has given a fair assessment of the situation', whereas mine was 'not grounded in any common sense'.

As far as I can tell, we were not a million miles away in what we were saying . . .

HYD

Dod101
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Re: This evening's news

#237263

Postby Dod101 » July 17th, 2019, 2:05 pm

Howyoudoin wrote:
Interesting that you think RC 'has given a fair assessment of the situation', whereas mine was 'not grounded in any common sense'.

As far as I can tell, we were not a million miles away in what we were saying . . .


I don't want to fall out with anyone. This is an emotional minefield and yet you were simply dismissing any attempt to prolong the life of Siamese twins on the basis that they would not live long anyway and adding to that you implied that the doctors and nurses should presumably have refused to take on the medical tasks involved and your phraseology suggests that they were guilty, although of what I do not know.

Your quote

'The Doctors and Nurses here have a lot to answer for as there is ZERO quality of life for Siamese Twins from the moment that they are born'

That is some way from RC's comments and is in my opinion anyway, very negative. You I assume do not know what quality of life the conjoined twins had any more than I do and so it is not a statement grounded in common sense or fact.

Dod

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Re: This evening's news

#237265

Postby Howyoudoin » July 17th, 2019, 2:43 pm

Dod101 wrote:
Howyoudoin wrote:
Interesting that you think RC 'has given a fair assessment of the situation', whereas mine was 'not grounded in any common sense'.

As far as I can tell, we were not a million miles away in what we were saying . . .


I don't want to fall out with anyone. This is an emotional minefield and yet you were simply dismissing any attempt to prolong the life of Siamese twins on the basis that they would not live long anyway and adding to that you implied that the doctors and nurses should presumably have refused to take on the medical tasks involved and your phraseology suggests that they were guilty, although of what I do not know.

Your quote

'The Doctors and Nurses here have a lot to answer for as there is ZERO quality of life for Siamese Twins from the moment that they are born'

That is some way from RC's comments and is in my opinion anyway, very negative. You I assume do not know what quality of life the conjoined twins had any more than I do and so it is not a statement grounded in common sense or fact.

Dod


It's simply a matter of priorities.

There are currently more than 4 million people on the NHS waiting list and I don't think this is a sensible diversion of resources.

That's the PC version of what I was trying to say before.

HYD

Dod101
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Re: This evening's news

#237267

Postby Dod101 » July 17th, 2019, 3:09 pm

HYD. With respect I think your wording was a little unfortunate.

We are well away from the original topic now but there are a host of things that I think could be cut out of the NHS budget and this has been discussed before, probably many times. Cosmetic surgery, IVF treatment and so on for a start. I would cut out that sort of thing before not treating say conjoined twins. The ops on the twins were apparently paid for and so it could at the very least be regarded as research by the doctors and surgeons concerned at no cost to the NHS.

I will leave this at that because I was simply commenting that I found the news on Tuesday evening on this matter and Borough Market rather more uplifting than usual and I did not imagine that either subject was in the least controversial.

Dod


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