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Finger licking

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brightncheerful
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Finger licking

#237234

Postby brightncheerful » July 17th, 2019, 11:48 am

Tasting before paying lands a man in jail:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/08/us/ice-cream-licker-jail.html

I don't know whether if in England it's a criminal mischief to tamper with a product before purchasing but perhaps i should stop taking a sandwich off a the shelf in Waitrose and eating it in an aisle careful to ensure not in anyone's way before paying for it.

Distant memory now but when Mrs Bnc and I had our shop and I was there on Saturdays, I told a female customer off for removing the cap of a shampoo bottle so she could sniff the smell before deciding whether to buy. She retorted that Boots let her so why shouldn't she. I said I didn't care about Boots, and as far I was concerned it would be unhygienic if she didn't buy it. She didn't. Ever since, I've noticed in other shops, including boots, that someone people do indeed sniff but not buy.

My primary gripe is the handling of bread by shop assistants. I have in mind shop (that prides itself on being upmarket) in our town where on numerous occasions I've observed its supplier of 'artisan' bread carry a couple of trays of loaves, uncovered and exposed to the elements and street fumes, from the delivery vehicle (estate car) into the shop. The loaves are then handled (bare hands) by a shop assistant and placed into a display rack. When a customer buys, a shop assistant picks up (bare hands) the loaf and places it carefully in a brown paper bag. As bread cannot be washed before use, without risk of soggy, I dread to think what manner of germs etc lurk on the crust. At least with the sandwich I buy from Waitrose, it's most probably (can't be certain but I trust) been prepared in hygienic environment, delivered in temperature-controlled food vehicles and packaged under cellophane etc. I have similar concerns about cheese, particularly when served in restaurants from a cheese trolley.

Snorvey
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Re: Finger licking

#237245

Postby Snorvey » July 17th, 2019, 12:30 pm

Jeezus BNC, you're worried about folk handling your bread? What about any number of food stuffs - and what's 'washing'? A run under the tap or a full blast in one of those baby utensil sanitizer things?

And what about when you eat out? Who knows what happens to your food before it hits your table (unless you clean all your portions with an antiseptic wipe after the waiter delivers it to you?)

My advice would be to either bake your own bread or try and forget about it. Ignorance is bliss.

swill453
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Re: Finger licking

#237247

Postby swill453 » July 17th, 2019, 12:42 pm

Cutting down on the single-use plastic can't hurt either.

Scott.

Snorvey
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Re: Finger licking

#237257

Postby Snorvey » July 17th, 2019, 1:30 pm

swill453 wrote:Cutting down on the single-use plastic can't hurt either.

Scott.


I tried to convince the wife that the credit card was a single use plastic.

Nae luck.

brightncheerful
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Re: Finger licking

#237264

Postby brightncheerful » July 17th, 2019, 2:12 pm

My advice would be to either bake your own bread


We do, have done for years.

We don't eat out much nowadays: mainly because of Mrs Bnc's food requirements. I don't mind, saves forking out >fifty quid for ingredients that probably don't cost more than a fiver, being asked more than once if we want coffee, having to wait for the bill to arrive and helping to buy the restaurant owner's top of the range car.

redsturgeon
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Re: Finger licking

#237294

Postby redsturgeon » July 17th, 2019, 5:31 pm

brightncheerful wrote:
My advice would be to either bake your own bread


We do, have done for years.

We don't eat out much nowadays: mainly because of Mrs Bnc's food requirements. I don't mind, saves forking out >fifty quid for ingredients that probably don't cost more than a fiver, being asked more than once if we want coffee, having to wait for the bill to arrive and helping to buy the restaurant owner's top of the range car.



I would like to see you cook/prepare say a starter of smoked salmon followed by a steak with fries and a salad with perhaps a tiramisu to finish. Perhaps with a glass or two of wine for a fiver. Then of course pay business rates and rent and staff salaries and national insurance and gas and electricity, plus the interest on the loan for the tens of thousands it cost to fit out even a modest restaurant.

You may not have heard that restaurants are going bust at a record rate.

Were you by any chance this person?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews ... eview.html

— Curious Mr. Wolf (@The_Zaps) January 14, 2016
“I ordered hot water and a slice of lemon which, firstly, did not arrive on time with all my friends’ cake and drinks. I was then charged £2 for the hot water and a thin slice of lemon,” she wrote.

“When I asked why I was being charged so much for some water the waiter rudely said, ‘well, do you know how much a lemon costs?’ Yes, it’s definitely not £2.

“He then went on to wrongly inform me that a 'pot of tea for one' (which is what I was charged for) is the same price as a lemon. To show just how ridiculous this is, my friend ordered a slice of chocolate cake which was £1.90.”


The reply is a classic.

John

Sussexlad
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Re: Finger licking

#237307

Postby Sussexlad » July 17th, 2019, 6:20 pm

brightncheerful wrote:
My primary gripe is the handling of bread by shop assistants.


I'm not generally concerned about such stuff but I'm not particularly happy with Sainsburys introducing a 'Slice your own bread' machine. Practically it's not difficult but when you've handled a basket or trolley, which has been through numerous hands and then had to handle various parts of the machine,which have also been touched multiple times, i do think there is a genuine risk of cross contamination. It's hasn't prevented me using it though !

brightncheerful
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Re: Finger licking

#237308

Postby brightncheerful » July 17th, 2019, 6:21 pm

I would like to see you cook/prepare say a starter of smoked salmon followed by a steak with fries and a salad with perhaps a tiramisu to finish. Perhaps with a glass or two of wine for a fiver. Then of course pay business rates and rent and staff salaries and national insurance and gas and electricity, plus the interest on the loan for the tens of thousands it cost to fit out even a modest restaurant.



Did you actually read what I wrote? "…ingredients that probably don't cost more than a fiver…" . The cost of preparation and all the other overheads not to to mention profit are separate issues.

You may not have heard that restaurants are going bust at a record rate.


Which leaves more trade for the restaurants that are not, for example: https://www.dcl.co.uk/news/cooler-june-is-good-news-for-britains-restaurant-groups/

I think you'll find that self-inflicted is the reason for most of the restaurants which are going bust. I know of at least two restaurants in affluent London areas, both of whose landlords I advise, that overestimated ability to satisfy demand. As for business acumen, generally small restaurants are under capitalised and do not have the economy of scale to withstand downturns for very long.

brightncheerful
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Re: Finger licking

#237313

Postby brightncheerful » July 17th, 2019, 6:43 pm

… I'm not particularly happy with Sainsburys introducing a 'Slice your own bread' machine. Practically it's not difficult but when you've handled a basket or trolley, which has been through numerous hands and then had to handle various parts of the machine,which have also been touched multiple times, i do think there is a genuine risk of cross contamination. It's hasn't prevented me using it though !


When Wholefoods was an independent company, before Amazon took it over, large tables with dishes piled high with spices and the like were arranged to attract customers. Help yourself is all very well if it's you alone but as it hasn't got to the stage where customers have to pass a medical before they're allowed into a shop the chances of cross-contamination is imv a genuine risk.

From cruise ships to hospital wards, the impact of norovirus is well chronicled. Air-born contamination is rife, particularly in auditoria. For example, Mrs BnC loves going to the theatre but after years of her invariably ending up catching a cold from some coughing and sneezing person(s) in the audience persons - that if they had any sense of duty of care towards others should've stayed at home instead - has resulted is Mrs Bnc no longer wanting to go to the theatre, instead she is content to watch TV which from my point of view is more pleasurable but not from hers.

I have my own ways of coping with people whom I sense are contagious but Mrs Bnc is more susceptible. Since for people generally catching a 'common cold' is just one of those things, I don't think people generally would accept that actually it's not normal to be unhealthy.

monabri
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Re: Finger licking

#237318

Postby monabri » July 17th, 2019, 7:07 pm

I agree with BnC, the handling of food, such as bread, should be with tongs or using gloves.

Where I go shooting at the weekend ( clay pigeon) there is a greasy spoon "caff" where one can buy a bacon sarnie ...complete with finger inserts/dents in the soft bread. :|

Thankfully, I'm a vegetarian !

And as for bread and cakes on open display in supermarkets....handled by who knows whom?

djbenedict
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Re: Finger licking

#237478

Postby djbenedict » July 18th, 2019, 11:29 am

brightncheerful wrote:From cruise ships to hospital wards, the impact of norovirus is well chronicled. Air-born contamination is rife, particularly in auditoria. For example, Mrs BnC loves going to the theatre but after years of her invariably ending up catching a cold from some coughing and sneezing person(s) in the audience persons - that if they had any sense of duty of care towards others should've stayed at home instead - has resulted is Mrs Bnc no longer wanting to go to the theatre, instead she is content to watch TV which from my point of view is more pleasurable but not from hers.

I have my own ways of coping with people whom I sense are contagious but Mrs Bnc is more susceptible. Since for people generally catching a 'common cold' is just one of those things, I don't think people generally would accept that actually it's not normal to be unhealthy.


This behaviour may seem beneficial in the short term (fewer annoyance illnesses). But have you considered that, in the long term, the lack of exposure to pathogens may mean that when you, or your wife, inadvertently do come into contact with one, your immune system is less likely to be able to respond?

Having said that, it will be a cold day in hell before I set foot on a cruise ship, partly but not entirely because of the risk of vomiting virus epidemics.

AleisterCrowley
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Re: Finger licking

#238013

Postby AleisterCrowley » July 20th, 2019, 1:20 pm

Having said that, it will be a cold day in hell before I set foot on a cruise ship, partly but not entirely because of the risk of vomiting virus epidemics

Hmm- I'm puzzled why cruise ships seem to be prone to norovirus outbreaks, seemingly more so than hotels. They are just floating hotels after all.

I guess hotels kill their guests with Legionnaires' disease before the norovirus gets to them..

tjh290633
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Re: Finger licking

#238017

Postby tjh290633 » July 20th, 2019, 1:30 pm

Maybe it's because cruise passengers go ashore and eat street food.

TJH

AleisterCrowley
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Re: Finger licking

#238084

Postby AleisterCrowley » July 20th, 2019, 5:27 pm

So do hotel guests!
Well, not 'ashore' but you know what I mean

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Re: Finger licking

#238268

Postby AF62 » July 21st, 2019, 6:24 pm

AleisterCrowley wrote:Having said that, it will be a cold day in hell before I set foot on a cruise ship, partly but not entirely because of the risk of vomiting virus epidemics

Hmm- I'm puzzled why cruise ships seem to be prone to norovirus outbreaks, seemingly more so than hotels. They are just floating hotels after all


At a guess there are probably a few reasons.

Cruise ships are far more confined spaces than hotels, and as a result people are pressed into closer contact and for longer periods of time (sea-days, every night in the theatre, the packed public areas and restaurants) . Also if someone is ill then they are supposed to be confined to their cabin for several days, but if you have paid £££ for a cruise, then there might be the temptation not to report it.

However the main reason is the handling of food in the buffet, which is norovirus central, with people handling tongs and spoons to serve themselves (and sometimes the food itself!!!). Whenever there is a norovirus infection the first thing the cruise line does is stop self-service in the buffet and staff have to serve you. The other changes (aside from the continuous cleaning) are leather menus in the 'silver service' dining room being replaced by disposable paper menus, salt and pepper pots removed, and the entrance doors to toilets being wedged open, because people don't wash their hands and then open the door.

The number of times I have seen otherwise intelligent people filling a water bottle from a dispenser with a sign which says "Do not fthe ill water bottles". FFS, a bottle of water will cost you €1 when you get on shore.

Some cruise companies seem to be reacting to this; I just got off a Holland America ship last week which has been designed so that the buffet staff always have to serve you, with all the food kept behind glass away from contamination by the passengers. Also the water dispensers, which still have the "Do not fill bottles" have been designed with the outlet spout hidden up in the mechanism where it cannot be touched and the water starts flowing automatically when you put a glass (or a water bottle, grrr) underneath it.

The sight you don't want to see on a cruise ship is the hazardous cleaning crew who are dressed in paper suits, disposable boots, face masks, etc, going into a cabin near yours.

brightncheerful
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Re: Finger licking

#238596

Postby brightncheerful » July 23rd, 2019, 9:24 am

The last cruise ship we went on had a bout of norovirus. As someone that mostly eats salad, helping myself to vast quantities at a time only to find that when served by the staff and yours truly asked how much salad I would like on the plate the staff interpretation of "a lot, please" was not a lot. After a while of constantly going back for more, I found it impossible for me to have an enjoyable meal on-board.

After that particular cruise I heard that the port authorities were carrying out a thorough inspection of the ship. So i contacted the authorities and suggested that amongst the list of their requirements and recommendations to the cruise company should be included no bread on display for passengers to help themselves but handled and handed to passengers by gloved staff only. I said that I thought it daft for the staff to serve all meals, only for the virus-carrying passenger(s) to help themselves to the bread.

---

The cruise ships we went on required all passengers entering the dining areas to first rub some disinfectant into their hands. The liquid is position by the doors to dining areas. The stuff evaporates quickly but is unpleasant.

--

Norovirus is also prevalent in hospitals.

AleisterCrowley
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Re: Finger licking

#238599

Postby AleisterCrowley » July 23rd, 2019, 10:06 am

The antibac gel dispensers are standard in the hospitals I've visited over the last 10 years or so. Not unpleasant but can cause skin problems if used every day.

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Re: Finger licking

#238614

Postby bungeejumper » July 23rd, 2019, 11:46 am

brightncheerful wrote:Norovirus is also prevalent in hospitals.

I think you're going to have to define "prevalent" there. ;) Prevalent as in "dominant, endemic, ubiquitous", or prevalent as in "bound to happen sometimes, because people are like that, but we close the wards and take containing action if we're seriously worried"?

As they do. At least in this part of the world. You're more likely to get norovirus from a door handle, a lavatory or a phone than from a hospital.

BJ

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Re: Finger licking

#238622

Postby malkymoo » July 23rd, 2019, 12:18 pm

AF62 wrote:
The number of times I have seen otherwise intelligent people filling a water bottle from a dispenser with a sign which says "Do not fthe ill water bottles". FFS, a bottle of water will cost you €1 when you get on shore.




Why is it so bad to fill a water bottle? I must be missing something here.

AleisterCrowley
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Re: Finger licking

#238640

Postby AleisterCrowley » July 23rd, 2019, 12:56 pm

Touching water dispenser nozzle with infected bottle mouth, transfer to next person


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