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Welsh Lamb

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JoyofBrex8889
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Re: Welsh Lamb

#240974

Postby JoyofBrex8889 » August 1st, 2019, 8:23 am

Oh dear Julian. Why do you suppose there is little soil on them thar hills? Could it be something to do with soil erosion? Do you think that may be linked to deforestation? And might that be summat to do with c30million subsidised sheep eating seedlings?

The hills didn’t start out barren and acidic: human farmers made them that way. When sheep are removed, tree cover regenerates.

Howard
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Re: Welsh Lamb

#240993

Postby Howard » August 1st, 2019, 10:02 am

JoyofBrex8889 wrote:
I hope that is clear enough explanation why buying lamb while promoting rewilding is a reasonable position based on both environmental and humane principles.


Taking your point seriously. This is a huge short-term issue and I'm not sure you, or the Government spokesman have thought it through.

The industry have been clear that, unlike the EU buyers, the UK consumer (and trade customer) don't want a substantial part of lamb carcasses as UK tastes are different.

The UK export over 100,000 tons of sheep every year, more than 90% goes to the EU. If this trade stops and the UK Government buys the sheep instead, to make maximum use of the carcasses and offal acceptable to the UK consumer, they could turn it into lamb burgers.

I'm not suggesting that this is a sensible solution, but one year's lamb production would produce around 500,000,000 lamb burgers. And, because of Brexit preparations, Britain's Cold Storage Association report that their capacity is 96% full already. ;)

I think there are some other issues about beef exports which may add to the problem.

Hopefully, Brexiteers are going to come up with better solutions to other well publicised problems. Just repeating phrases like "project fear" won't be good enough. Ten or twenty issues of the scale of farming problems may overwhelm the most prepared government.

For the sake of the UK, we must hope that these short term problems are being tackled more sensibly than the sheep issue.

regards

Howard

scotia
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Re: Welsh Lamb

#240996

Postby scotia » August 1st, 2019, 10:16 am

JoyofBrex8889 wrote:Oh dear Julian. Why do you suppose there is little soil on them thar hills? Could it be something to do with soil erosion? Do you think that may be linked to deforestation? And might that be summat to do with c30million subsidised sheep eating seedlings?

The hills didn’t start out barren and acidic: human farmers made them that way. When sheep are removed, tree cover regenerates.

When the farmed sheep disappear, the red deer take over - and unless you erect miles of deer fencing, or introduce a significant culling program, tree regeneration does not take place. Take a trip to the NW corner of Scotland.
(edited to remove spelling mistake)

richlist
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Re: Welsh Lamb

#240998

Postby richlist » August 1st, 2019, 10:28 am

JoyofBrex8889 wrote:
BobbyD wrote:
Howard wrote:Newsnight reports tonight that the Government solution to this is likely to be to buy up the lamb in the case of a no deal. It is a huge amount. It was described as a "lamb mountain". If this happens presumably Brexiteers will applaud this solution? :D


When the far right of the Tory party is reduced to relying on government intervention to support an uneconomical industry you know that the bottom of the barrel is several feet above their heads... They've Laboured it! Free Trade my elbow.


Since you seem to have an opinion, what would you do to help sheep farmers in the event of No-Deal?

I won’t hold my breath waiting for an answer that differs from the one BoJo has come up with.


The real issue is the Irish border.

We may be looking at the break up of the UK......so Wales.....who are always moaning that the UK Gov are not doing enough for them will want their independence like Scotland.

Then the Welsh lamb issue can be easily resolved by their own Welsh Gov. Good luck with that.

Howard
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Re: Welsh Lamb

#241012

Postby Howard » August 1st, 2019, 11:29 am

richlist wrote:Why do Welsh farmers export lamb to the EU when the supermarkets are full of Lamb imported from New Zealand ?

Seems a rather strange set up!
Surely Welsh farmers can sell their meat in their home market after Brexit.......or am I missing something ?


Can I give you credit, richlist, for starting this thread by admitting that you knew nothing about the UK's sheep issue.

Hopefully we all know a little more about the problem now.

But you have clearly shown (on this issue) that you and fellow Brexiteers are prepared to give very strong arguments in favour of one side of an issue that you know very little about. In the end "experts" have given some information on the subject to the media and we have all learned a little more about a complex subject.

And in this case, the experts (not our posters, but the people who actually deal with farming issues on a day by day basis) have identified a real problem. And not one that you or other Brexiteers can solve on the hoof :oops: .

Throwaway solutions to the Irish issue are not very defensible. It's a serious issue and could cost lives. Time will tell if there is an answer. And flip insults to the Welsh, don't help your case either.

I personally hope the Brexiteers who contribute here don't desert these forums when the going gets tough for the Government. It's going be interesting to see what their views are on the way their Government deal with leaving the EU.

For example, where is Lootman? He was an ardent supporter of leaving the EU. I'd be interested in his views of the UK government considering buying up 100,000 tons of lamb per year until this farming issue is solved.

In all seriousness, now is the time for Brexiteers to rally round and support their politicians with well-thought out solutions.

regards

Howard

Rhyd6
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Re: Welsh Lamb

#241014

Postby Rhyd6 » August 1st, 2019, 11:38 am

Richlist, just because some idiots led by former first minister Carwyn Jones are screaming for independence don't confuse these loonies with the rest of the Welsh population. I'm British and Welsh so are all of my friends and neighbours, we're definitely not stupid enough to think that Wales on it's own is a viable option. There are nutcases with delusions of grandeur in all countries and I don't for one moment think that the lunatics in Wales will be put in charge of the assylum :D

R6

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Re: Welsh Lamb

#241015

Postby BellaHubby » August 1st, 2019, 11:42 am

Rhyd6 wrote:There are nutcases with delusions of grandeur in all countries and I don't for one moment think that the lunatics in Wales will be put in charge of the assylum :D
R6

It's happened in Scotland!!

bella

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Re: Welsh Lamb

#241027

Postby scotia » August 1st, 2019, 12:16 pm

BellaHubby wrote:
Rhyd6 wrote:There are nutcases with delusions of grandeur in all countries and I don't for one moment think that the lunatics in Wales will be put in charge of the assylum :D
R6

It's happened in Scotland!!
bella

And it's currently happening in England - with Scotland and Wales being dragged along whether they like it or not.

JoyofBrex8889
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Re: Welsh Lamb

#241076

Postby JoyofBrex8889 » August 1st, 2019, 3:38 pm

scotia wrote:
JoyofBrex8889 wrote:Oh dear Julian. Why do you suppose there is little soil on them thar hills? Could it be something to do with soil erosion? Do you think that may be linked to deforestation? And might that be summat to do with c30million subsidised sheep eating seedlings?

The hills didn’t start out barren and acidic: human farmers made them that way. When sheep are removed, tree cover regenerates.

When the farmed sheep disappear, the red deer take over - and unless you erect miles of deer fencing, or introduce a significant culling program, tree regeneration does not take place. Take a trip to the NW corner of Scotland.
(edited to remove spelling mistake)


So if we get red deer we get venison and an opportunity for hunting. Reintroducing forest ecosystems means all sorts of good things can happen: The wild boar in the Forest of Dean are delicious when hunted!

And it turns out that farmers are pretty handy at dealing with miles of fencing, especially when there is a subsidy attached. We are paying them anyway, we might just as well pay them to do the right thing to lock up carbon and create conditions for timber and wild game as mutton and wool.

And we haven’t even covered the possibilities of reintroducing some larger predators to control deer numbers. I have in the past paid very good money to see wolves and bears in the wild in Eastern Europe. Why should Wales or Scotland not enjoy the draw of some big predators too? Golden eagles are a thrill in Scotland and don’t seem to eat too many pets.

JoyofBrex8889
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Re: Welsh Lamb

#241080

Postby JoyofBrex8889 » August 1st, 2019, 4:04 pm

Rhyd6 wrote:Richlist, just because some idiots led by former first minister Carwyn Jones are screaming for independence don't confuse these loonies with the rest of the Welsh population. I'm British and Welsh so are all of my friends and neighbours, we're definitely not stupid enough to think that Wales on it's own is a viable option. There are nutcases with delusions of grandeur in all countries and I don't for one moment think that the lunatics in Wales will be put in charge of the assylum :D

R6


This: No way is Wales splitting from England. Just about everyone I know back home in Cymru would have major objections. We know which side our bara brith is buttered.

Apart from anything else, the Welsh Assembly under Labour has proved time and again a great advertisement for government by Westminster.

ReformedCharacter
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Re: Welsh Lamb

#241081

Postby ReformedCharacter » August 1st, 2019, 4:10 pm

JoyofBrex8889 wrote:
The wild boar in the Forest of Dean are delicious when hunted!


It was in 2014, when this species seriously threatened the global pork industry, that the boar’s presence went from nuisance to existential threat. Boars can carry African swine fever (ASF), an incurable and highly contagious virus. Known as “pig ebola”, it kills wild and domestic pigs, creating an animal health crisis that is rapidly becoming a geopolitical one.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... ean-cities

RC

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Re: Welsh Lamb

#241085

Postby scotia » August 1st, 2019, 4:52 pm

JoyofBrex8889 wrote:And we haven’t even covered the possibilities of reintroducing some larger predators

I'm all for the introduction of large predators - on a per capita basis, of course. It would be great fun to see Boris pedalling furiously with a pack of wolves in pursuit.

mutantpoodle
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Re: Welsh Lamb

#241094

Postby mutantpoodle » August 1st, 2019, 5:16 pm

qq It would be great fun to see Boris pedalling furiously with a pack of wolves in pursuit uq

or perhaps just imagine Corbyn even on a bike!

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Re: Welsh Lamb

#241098

Postby BobbyD » August 1st, 2019, 5:29 pm

JoyofBrex8889 wrote:
BobbyD wrote:
Howard wrote:Newsnight reports tonight that the Government solution to this is likely to be to buy up the lamb in the case of a no deal. It is a huge amount. It was described as a "lamb mountain". If this happens presumably Brexiteers will applaud this solution? :D


When the far right of the Tory party is reduced to relying on government intervention to support an uneconomical industry you know that the bottom of the barrel is several feet above their heads... They've Laboured it! Free Trade my elbow.


Since you seem to have an opinion, what would you do to help sheep farmers in the event of No-Deal?

I won’t hold my breath waiting for an answer that differs from the one BoJo has come up with.


I had an opinion 3 years ago when I pointed out that the oodles of cheap food being promised by Brexiteers would mean the death of the UK farming industry ...apparently it was 'project fear' or a 'price worth paying'.

This was supposed to be one of the major benefits of Brexit, and now die hard market worshipping free traders are going to the socialist playbook to avoid it. It's almost like they didn't think their promises through. Remain is the free trade option, and the pro-business option.

The solution is of course very simple, rescind Article 50.

Howard wrote:The UK export over 100,000 tons of sheep every year, more than 90% goes to the EU. If this trade stops and the UK Government buys the sheep instead, to make maximum use of the carcasses and offal acceptable to the UK consumer, they could turn it into lamb burgers.

I'm not suggesting that this is a sensible solution, but one year's lamb production would produce around 500,000,000 lamb burgers. And, because of Brexit preparations, Britain's Cold Storage Association report that their capacity is 96% full already. ;)


Atleast the US only socialised Cheese, 'government lamb entrail burgers' doesn't sound nearly as easy to store as the large orange blocks of plastic cheese-style food known as 'government cheese', and that would be a problem if the parallel continues as when the US government started buying milk to keep american dairy farmers in business and converting it in to something with a longer (practically immortal) shelf life they ended up storing part of their 1.4 billion ton cheese mountain in caves in Montana...

The UK used to laugh at the EU's wine lakes and its dairy mountain. The solution to leaving the EU? Create our own British food mountains... While the EU has, under our influence, moved towards free markets and rationality the UK is regressing toward the sort of state dependent economy it used to mock, in the name of control, and err free trade...

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Re: Welsh Lamb

#241100

Postby BobbyD » August 1st, 2019, 5:31 pm

mutantpoodle wrote:qq It would be great fun to see Boris pedalling furiously with a pack of wolves in pursuit uq

or perhaps just imagine Corbyn even on a bike!


Be fair, Corbyn has the courage of his convictions. He would invite any large predator to sit down and discuss their differences over a cup of tea, then explain why eating him would be a betrayal of socialist principles and tacit support for this evil Tory government.

dionaeamuscipula
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Re: Welsh Lamb

#241106

Postby dionaeamuscipula » August 1st, 2019, 5:46 pm

mutantpoodle wrote:qq It would be great fun to see Boris pedalling furiously with a pack of wolves in pursuit uq

or perhaps just imagine Corbyn even on a bike!


Its not clear whether this is some sort of ironic twisty thing, or just an error, but I'm going for error.

Corbyn is well known to be a prolific bike user

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitn ... ed-bicycl/

DM

Spet0789
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Re: Welsh Lamb

#241137

Postby Spet0789 » August 1st, 2019, 7:24 pm

mutantpoodle wrote:qq It would be great fun to see Boris pedalling furiously with a pack of wolves in pursuit uq

or perhaps just imagine Corbyn even on a bike!


I’d prefer to see Boris on foot, pursued by wolves. Less chance of escape that way.

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Re: Welsh Lamb

#241146

Postby richlist » August 1st, 2019, 8:21 pm

It's amazing how excited some people seem to be getting over this Welsh lamb issue.

My philosophy is to try to only worry about those things I have some control over.

So, let's see where we are.....
1. We already had the referendum.....so that result is fixed.
2. The Gov' have already stated their position so there will either be a deal with no Irish border OR no deal......so that's sorted.
3. We know that there won't be a second vote.
4. 31st October is THE date we leave the EU and changes will happen.
5. The Welsh lamb situation will not be decided by us or Welsh farmers.

So, the only opportunity for me to have any say in any decision making is if there is a General Election.....which looks very likey.

Therefore all you need to concern yourself with is who you are going to vote for.

swill453
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Re: Welsh Lamb

#241150

Postby swill453 » August 1st, 2019, 8:31 pm

richlist wrote:2. The Gov' have already stated their position so there will either be a deal with no Irish border OR no deal......so that's sorted.

"stating a position" has been done multiple times before. Didn't happen though.

Scott.

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Re: Welsh Lamb

#241153

Postby richlist » August 1st, 2019, 8:42 pm

Fortunately........as the saying goes........past performance is no indication of a future result.


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