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The pubs are re-opening! Yay!

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redsturgeon
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Re: The pubs are re-opening! Yay!

#321263

Postby redsturgeon » June 25th, 2020, 7:58 am

Mike4 wrote:
swill453 wrote:
Lootman wrote:Eye on the prize! Debates about real versus craft beer are missing the point. Neither are gassy keg pee.

Agree with you 100%. Wow.

Scott.


I agree too, but it's a pretty low bar to be pleased about clearing.

Craft beer in my personal experience is best avoided (like keg) because after drinking a fair amount of it (because I wanted to like it), I came to realise I just don't. It's a personal preference and what I'm saying is to me, there is a clear difference between 'real ale' and craft ale'. Some like both, some can't tell the difference, yet others deny there is any difference and lump them both in together. I was pleased to see someone posting in a way that shows they too draw a distinction.


I like some real ale and I like some craft beers.

I prefer some Belgian beers to most other beers.

I even like a cold gassy lager occasionally.

John

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Re: The pubs are re-opening! Yay!

#321266

Postby UncleEbenezer » June 25th, 2020, 8:08 am

'Scuse the ignorance, but I never really got what "craft beer" is about. Always looks like a marketing exercise, commonly featuring willy-waving about strength.

Love a real ale, of course. And a reasonable range of others, not least on a hot summer evening. But I like my beers to quench the thirst: if I want something stronger than it is refreshing I'll drink wine, or spirits. Or indeed, coffee. ;)

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Re: The pubs are re-opening! Yay!

#321280

Postby swill453 » June 25th, 2020, 8:58 am

So what's the real difference between something like Proper Job, a real ale for sure, 5+% ABV, hoppy, citrus/grapefruit notes, gold in colour, and the craft ales that people are being disparaging about?

Or does that real ale not count?

Scott.

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Re: The pubs are re-opening! Yay!

#321296

Postby Mike4 » June 25th, 2020, 9:35 am

swill453 wrote:So what's the real difference between something like Proper Job, a real ale for sure, 5+% ABV, hoppy, citrus/grapefruit notes, gold in colour, and the craft ales that people are being disparaging about?

Or does that real ale not count?

Scott.


There is no difference, because Proper Job is a first class example of a "craft ale"!

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Re: The pubs are re-opening! Yay!

#321303

Postby didds » June 25th, 2020, 9:54 am

Mike4 wrote:Craft beer in my personal experience is best avoided (like keg) because after drinking a fair amount of it (because I wanted to like it), I came to realise I just don't. It's a personal preference and what I'm saying is to me, there is a clear difference between 'real ale' and craft ale'.


That's fair enough Mike.

Though of course then you get this sort of stuff.... so is that real ale or is it craft? 'Cos nothing has changed with it for over a decade at least, well before any concept of "craft" appeared.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... w&usqp=CAU

and of course - this...

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0078/ ... 1585059956

didds

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Re: The pubs are re-opening! Yay!

#321309

Postby swill453 » June 25th, 2020, 10:21 am

Mike4 wrote:There is no difference, because Proper Job is a first class example of a "craft ale"!

"Crafted" in the style of an 18th century beer, cask- or bottle-conditioned, at a brewery that's been around for 170 years.

I think I'll give up talking and just keep drinking...

Scott.

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Re: The pubs are re-opening! Yay!

#321325

Postby UncleEbenezer » June 25th, 2020, 11:17 am

swill453 wrote:So what's the real difference between something like Proper Job, a real ale for sure, 5+% ABV, hoppy, citrus/grapefruit notes, gold in colour, and the craft ales that people are being disparaging about?

Or does that real ale not count?

Scott.

Proper Job is two quite different beers.

There's a draft version, which is delicious. And there's the bottled version, which I prefer to avoid.

Snozzle's other mainstream beer (Tribute) is significantly better on draft, too, though the difference is less drastic than Proper Job.

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Re: The pubs are re-opening! Yay!

#321338

Postby swill453 » June 25th, 2020, 11:44 am

UncleEbenezer wrote:Proper Job is two quite different beers.

There's a draft version, which is delicious. And there's the bottled version, which I prefer to avoid.

I'll take your word for it. untappd.com and beeradvocate.com only note the stronger ABV of the bottled version. ratebeer.com does have two separate entries, with the bottled version scoring higher than the cask in all categories.

Scott.

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Re: The pubs are re-opening! Yay!

#321350

Postby Mike4 » June 25th, 2020, 12:06 pm

swill453 wrote:
Mike4 wrote:There is no difference, because Proper Job is a first class example of a "craft ale"!

"Crafted" in the style of an 18th century beer, cask- or bottle-conditioned, at a brewery that's been around for 170 years.

I think I'll give up talking and just keep drinking...

Scott.


Although St Austell have been brewing since 1851 and I've been aware of Tribute for decades, I'd say I only became aware of Proper Job perhaps six or seven years ago. Having had a brief scan through their website they do not claim to have been brewing Proper Job for 170 years and their page describing Proper Job states "It is a real treat of a beer with a growing reputation" which kinda suggests to me it is new.

I think Uncle E has it. Draught and bottled beers are often quite different, I've only ever tried Proper Job bottled (as never encountered it on draught in any of the many pubs I frequent) and the bottled version is decidedly over-hopped in my personal opinion.

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Re: The pubs are re-opening! Yay!

#321401

Postby Leothebear » June 25th, 2020, 2:17 pm

redsturgeon wrote:
Mike4 wrote:
swill453 wrote:Agree with you 100%. Wow.

Scott.


I agree too, but it's a pretty low bar to be pleased about clearing.

Craft beer in my personal experience is best avoided (like keg) because after drinking a fair amount of it (because I wanted to like it), I came to realise I just don't. It's a personal preference and what I'm saying is to me, there is a clear difference between 'real ale' and craft ale'. Some like both, some can't tell the difference, yet others deny there is any difference and lump them both in together. I was pleased to see someone posting in a way that shows they too draw a distinction.


I like some real ale and I like some craft beers.

I prefer some Belgian beers to most other beers.

I even like a cold gassy lager occasionally.

John



My preference is a good fruity draught bitter. Harvey's Sussex is ideal. However all bottled ale is far too gassy for me. So at home it's cold lager - not under 5% though as most under that have little or no flavour. I'll even go for lager in a pub if the real ale is ropey - which it often is.
Leo

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Re: The pubs are re-opening! Yay!

#321413

Postby didds » June 25th, 2020, 2:46 pm

Leothebear wrote: I'll even go for lager in a pub if the real ale is ropey - which it often is.
Leo


Absolutely - Hence my point earlier about Spoons - where in some towns its the only option for a chance of a reasonable pint of ale.

In such pubs as LtB describes my go to alternative tends to be guiness. But I'll typically only be in such pubs for reasons outside my control, or possibly on holiday and just wanting something wet. Now we've a campervan with a fridge, and more places are selling a better selection of cans and bottles there's a smaller likelihood of even that being necessary.

Not that we'll be going anywhere this year I doubt.

didds

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Re: The pubs are re-opening! Yay!

#321450

Postby GrandOiseau » June 25th, 2020, 4:07 pm

There is no clear or good definition of Craft:
https://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/Art ... er-defined

It's meaningless if you want to talk properly about beer.

The first way to categorise beer is whether it's live (still maturing in the vessel it's stored in and naturally gassy) or not (dead but external gas used to make it seem live). This discussion has been made a little murky in draft beer form by the different modern keg systems - some of which do, or arguably do, fall into the live category. This is part of the controversy CAMRA has found itself in.

Live is always better assuming it's kept right. A few eejits will always dispute this but they ate wrong. Of course this is more difficult to keep live beer than with dead beer. Though it should be noted if a landlord has beer hygiene and stock rotation practices then you really don't want to be in the pub.

Of course dead beer comes in many guises. From your Fosters and Carling right through to your small batches of locally produced microbrewery beers. And again this is another controversy CAMRA has found itself in because many people think the latter is better than the mass produced real stuff. A can of lightly gassed but brewed lovingly with quality ingredients microbrewery beer is better than say a pint of the now ubiquitous Doom Bar they say.

And of course anyone sub-30, maybe 35 often hasn't a full understanding about what happened to beer and breweries in the 60's and 70's not to mention the various ages before that. So they don't have the fears and prejudices that old schoolers like me arguably have.

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Re: The pubs are re-opening! Yay!

#321452

Postby swill453 » June 25th, 2020, 4:11 pm

GrandOiseau wrote:Though it should be noted if a landlord has beer hygiene and stock rotation practices then you really don't want to be in the pub.

I don't understand this bit. Hygiene's a bad thing?

Scott.

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Re: The pubs are re-opening! Yay!

#321474

Postby UncleEbenezer » June 25th, 2020, 5:30 pm

Mike4 wrote:I think Uncle E has it. Draught and bottled beers are often quite different, I've only ever tried Proper Job bottled (as never encountered it on draught in any of the many pubs I frequent) and the bottled version is decidedly over-hopped in my personal opinion.


The draught version is hoppy too, but does it very nicely in a good pub.

I may have exaggerated my view on the bottled version. It's not one I'd pick when presented with a decent choice of good beers, but neither is it one up at which I'd turn my nose. On draft I'd be likely to choose Proper Job over Tribute; bottled I'd take the Tribute in preference.

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Re: The pubs are re-opening! Yay!

#321486

Postby didds » June 25th, 2020, 5:59 pm

GrandOiseau wrote:There is no clear or good definition of Craft:
https://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/Art ... er-defined

It's meaningless if you want to talk properly about beer.

.


THIS ^^^

its one fo those terms/words/things that _you_ (as inn self) knows what YOU mean, but everyone will have a different idea.

thee xtremes are probably easy to define

eg

Twattabaggians 3.2% brown twig water mild pulled via a handpump = real ale
UberHopfenTopf 7.2% DDH IPA with rhubarb and bovril dispensed by nitro keg = craft.

but otherwise its just a spectrum of personal call


didds

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Re: The pubs are re-opening! Yay!

#321495

Postby didds » June 25th, 2020, 6:13 pm

GrandOiseau wrote:Live is always better assuming it's kept right. .


well, WADR to GO, this depends on how you define "better". If my idea of "better" is a 7+ juicy hopped DIPAe its unlikely to be sold as "real ale" and live in a cask (though I have had it thus!).

If the idea of "better" is pulled by hand pull with a swan neck and sparkler its likely to be "live beer" - but then of course you get racked fine served this way too which may still tick many boxes for real ale but isnt really (IMO) "live" in the sense that it has any yeast etc to continue working.

Obviously others mileage may vary :-)

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Re: The pubs are re-opening! Yay!

#321500

Postby didds » June 25th, 2020, 6:19 pm

swill453 wrote:
GrandOiseau wrote:Though it should be noted if a landlord has beer hygiene and stock rotation practices then you really don't want to be in the pub.

I don't understand this bit. Hygiene's a bad thing?

Scott.



I presumed that was a typo from GO... and he meant "..if a landlord has NO beer hygiene and stock rotation practices..."

And on THAT basis I agree with him!

didds

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Re: The pubs are re-opening! Yay!

#321505

Postby didds » June 25th, 2020, 6:29 pm

GrandOiseau wrote:Of course dead beer comes in many guises. From your Fosters and Carling right through to your small batches of locally produced microbrewery beers. And again this is another controversy CAMRA has found itself in because many people think the latter is better than the mass produced real stuff. A can of lightly gassed but brewed lovingly with quality ingredients microbrewery beer is better than say a pint of the now ubiquitous Doom Bar they say.

A


well again... microbrewery is a term that merely means a brwery is small. Older far more tradttional breweries often now have in effect a microbrewery/very sm,all palnt to try expereimental brews on. And so all that means is a brwery is producing at most 10 barrels at a time 9say) rather than 1000 barrels.

I certainly dont read "microbrewery" to mean "quality" . Just "beer brewed in small amounts". Which may be a blindingly good, or woefully sh1t3 as much larger breweries various outputs. Most micro breweries round "these parts" all produce live real ale in firkins etc for hand pull dispense. One of them also kegs for nitro keg "bag in a keg" dispense. One of those microbreweries is absolute swill that we dont even send an invitiation to send (ier sell0 us a firkin for our annual beer festival (circa 100 beers), one is so small they really ionly produce for their own micropub, another is very very standard twig water stuff - nothing wrong with it, justt nothing any different from a billion other breweries. Another is more towards waht many may call the "craft" end of the amrket, sells both hand pull and kegged dispense and rebrabded and refoxussed as its original tradtional based beers just couldnt be moved/sold anywhere outsided of a very lcoal area... because they were no different from a million other tradtional (and very well made it must be said) beers . Why would a pub 100 miles away buty a firkin r two of a standard traditional bitter from them, when there are 20 breweries closer also selling a standard bitter?

so - just summaruising, WADR Id suggest thinking "micro brewery" is somewhow supposed to be indicative of soemthing that produces allegedly "finer" beer than doombar or even worse swill, is incorrect. all it mens it cant produce a million gallons a year

didds

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Re: The pubs are re-opening! Yay!

#321508

Postby Lootman » June 25th, 2020, 6:38 pm

didds wrote:
swill453 wrote:
GrandOiseau wrote:Though it should be noted if a landlord has beer hygiene and stock rotation practices then you really don't want to be in the pub.

I don't understand this bit. Hygiene's a bad thing?

I presumed that was a typo from GO... and he meant "..if a landlord has NO beer hygiene and stock rotation practices..."

And on THAT basis I agree with him!

Same here. But then one advantage of craft beer is that it is less dependent on the practices of the individual landlord. So a craft beer, like a lager, is more likely to be consistent across different pubs. That might be handy if you are in a pub that you do not personally know.

Another factor with real ale is how old it is. 'spoons sell real ale cheap partly because they can buy barrels from breweries close to its sell-by date and be confident that they will sell it all quickly enough before it goes bad. Even so, I'd avoid any real ale at a 'spoons that has been significantly discounted in price. It could be a bit like buying a 2-day old chicken sandwich for a quid and then paying for it all night long.

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Re: The pubs are re-opening! Yay!

#321510

Postby swill453 » June 25th, 2020, 6:47 pm

Lootman wrote:But then one advantage of craft beer is that it is less dependent on the practices of the individual landlord. So a craft beer, like a lager, is more likely to be consistent across different pubs.

Which definition of craft are you using for this assertion? :-)

Scott.


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