The Lemon Fool

Yesterday i cancelled a direct debit for an insurance policy for a maintenance contract for a kitchen appliance.

First, the bank account. Click delete. End of.

Next the insurer:

All our lines are currently very busy and you may have to wait up to an hour to speak to someone or you could call after 2pm when it's usually quieter.
I waited a few minutes before being put through to accounts.

me: regarding policy no xxxx, I'm calling to let you know I've cancelled the direct debit.
insurer: ok just a few security questions,
me: answer
insurance: why do you want to cancel?
me: I don't give reasons for my decisions.
insurer: we have to have a reason.
me; I don't want the policy any more.
insurer: why not?
me: you said you had to have a reason, i've given it.
insurer: is there any reason why you don't want it any more?
me: no
insurer: you've had the policy for 16 years. you do know that if the appliance can't be mended we'll supply a new one up to the value of of £250
me: me (pause): listen I have no complaints, there's nothing wrong. I'm doing my utmost to be polite but i didn't have to call, could've let you find out when the next payment was refused.
insurer: if you want to continue we could reduce the premium by £3 a month.
me: (thinks, what a cheek, good mind to write to them and ask for a refund), please just cancel the policy.
insurer: ok, just a minute, ok, done.
me: any reference number for this call?
insurer; no. is there anything else we can help you with?
me; no thank you.

...So why did you cancel it?

More to the point why did you let it run for sixteen years, and what is this impressive appliance that's lasted so long?

V8

88V8 wrote:and what is this impressive appliance that's lasted so long?

V8

That's called Mrs BnC

We have a Brandt tumble dryer that's about 26 years old. Just wondering if the shop is still there, is it too late to take out insurance?


Steve

My knowledge is a little dated now but as far as I know, one of the most profitable insurance contracts known to the Finance industry is an extended guarantee on a domestic appliance. Shops which offer these are paid high commission rates and they are a major source of cash for high street chains.

The reason given for this is that, if an appliance is likely to fail due to a manufacturing fault, this will generally occur very soon after it is first switched on. So the manufacturer's warranty pays for the repair/replacement.

And, very often, the consumer taking out the cover forgets to cancel the direct debit it so it goes on for years.

For this reason, I never agree to take out an extended warranty.

And congratulations on the cancellation BnC - but what took you so long?

regards

Howard

I've always worked on the assumption that insurance companies price their policies to make a profit, so unless I'm very unlucky, over the long term it's cheaper for me to "self insure" and just pay for the repair etc. as and when required.

The only time I don't apply this is if insurance is mandatory (e.g. car insurance) or the consequences of needing to claim would be hard to recover from (e.g. house insurance) or, if the hassle factor at the point of need is worth paying a premium to avoid (e.g. breakdown cover).

As to BnC's provider trying to get a reason for the cancellation - I assume they are working on the basis that if they have a reason, then they can have a discussion about why the reason is "invalid" or "risky" etc. etc. It's the first step on the customer retention crib sheet!

VRD

brightncheerful wrote:me: me (pause): listen I have no complaints, there's nothing wrong. I'm doing my utmost to be polite but i didn't have to call, could've let you find out when the next payment was refused.

When you cancel a Direct Debit the bank informs the payee straight away, they wouldn't have to wait until the next payment date to find out.

Scott.

vrdiver wrote: or, if the hassle factor at the point of need is worth paying a premium to avoid (e.g. breakdown cover).

Oh, but insurance companies pay peanuts (or less) to 'engineers' to go and fix stuff like washing machines and boilers. The 'engineers' tend to be amongst the least competent in the industry in my experience. (Certainly with boilers, my field of expertise). If they succeed in fixing it you will indeed have been fortunate.

The usual story will be 'this is too old to get parts for, you need a new one'. Don't believe a word of it in most cases.

Mike4 wrote:

vrdiver wrote: or, if the hassle factor at the point of need is worth paying a premium to avoid (e.g. breakdown cover).

Oh, but insurance companies pay peanuts (or less) to 'engineers' to go and fix stuff like washing machines and boilers. The 'engineers' tend to be amongst the least competent in the industry in my experience. (Certainly with boilers, my field of expertise). If they succeed in fixing it you will indeed have been fortunate.

The usual story will be 'this is too old to get parts for, you need a new one'. Don't believe a word of it in most cases.

Mike, that's all very well if one happens to know who, of the tradesmen in ones area, are any good. And can then find one with the time to do that urgent job.

Many of us fall at the first hurdle.

Cancelling wasn't a consequence of forgetting to do so long ago. I have renewed every year since the first time when i calculated the call-out charge before cost of parts was only a few pounds less than a year's premium. The first time the fault was something to do with the motherboard which would've cost £250 had I not been insured. Over the years, there have been several occasions when we have had our money's worth.

I do know that during the years when there was no need to call out for a repair the premium would've paid for a new tumble drier but only if we wanted a low price model.

During lockdown, one afternoon there was a loud explosion from the drier which triggered the fuse circuit-breaker. When I reset it, the machine objected vehemently so i left well alone. 5 days later (first available slot, by which time the washing that Mrs Bnc had been doing had dried naturally) when the two (2!) repair men (both with c20 years experience) came to fix it, they stripped down the machine but couldn't find anything wrong and left it it in normal working order. They told me that the machine is obsolete (I knew that already) but we should keep on repairing for as long as possible as the current model isn't as well-built or reliable. Last weekend, the door catch broke so we decided to have done with it and buy a new drier: different brand and higher price range, delivery and installation this week.

UncleEbenezer wrote:

Mike4 wrote:

vrdiver wrote: or, if the hassle factor at the point of need is worth paying a premium to avoid (e.g. breakdown cover).

Oh, but insurance companies pay peanuts (or less) to 'engineers' to go and fix stuff like washing machines and boilers.

Apologies - I was thinking of roadside assistance - car breakdown - when I wrote that!

Our boiler and white goods aren't insured or under warranty. 26 years in the same house and the boiler has broken down once, shortly after being serviced as part of the original installer's warranty conditions. The last engineer to service it suggested I kept an eye on the pilot light, as if that changed from blue to yellow/orange, it needed a service, otherwise leave it alone... 20 years later and the pilot light is still OK.

VRD

UncleEbenezer wrote:

Mike4 wrote:[Oh, but insurance companies pay peanuts (or less) to 'engineers' to go and fix stuff like washing machines and boilers. The 'engineers' tend to be amongst the least competent in the industry in my experience. (Certainly with boilers, my field of expertise). If they succeed in fixing it you will indeed have been fortunate.

The usual story will be 'this is too old to get parts for, you need a new one'. Don't believe a word of it in most cases.

Mike, that's all very well if one happens to know who, of the tradesmen in ones area, are any good. And can then find one with the time to do that urgent job.

Many of us fall at the first hurdle.

Both my sister and I have different local magazines in which local tradesmen advertise and I suspect they wouldn't last too long if they were unreliable. I've certainly had good experiences so far. If you're fortunate enough to have something similar, I think it's a good source of information.

UncleEbenezer wrote:that's all very well if one happens to know who, of the tradesmen in ones area, are any good. And can then find one with the time to do that urgent job.

Many of us fall at the first hurdle.

We use checkatrade as our first filter. So far it's worked very well.

I read the reviews, looking for any negative comments and if the tradesman has none, but does have a reasonable quantity of positive feedback, then I'll give them a call. I also leave feedback after the work is completed. Usually they ask us to anyway.

Once I've found a good plumber etc. they stay in my contacts book, but when looking for that first-time or replacement skill, this seems to work well.

VRD

I self-insure for Appliances and laptops etc using the reasons previously given (failure is usually early on when the Warranty still is in place, and they are in it for profit so on average I should be better off for instance).

However, we had a plumbing 'issue' (water cascading down from the loft ) last year that started off as a repair and ended up as a Boiler replacement (the boiler was verrrry old). Happy with the Boiler replacement Company, however getting a plumber out for the original fault was a struggle. No-one's interested or available in a reasonable timeframe.

I'm seriously considering Homeserve or similar for the CH as at least they do guarantee a reasonable response time in an emergency.

Reasonable tactic, or a sign of getting older and wanting less hassle in my life in return for yet another Direct Debit?

vrdiver wrote:Many of us fall at the first hurdle.

We use checkatrade as our first filter. So far it's worked very well.

I read the reviews, looking for any negative comments and if the tradesman has none, but does have a reasonable quantity of positive feedback, then I'll give them a call. I also leave feedback after the work is completed. Usually they ask us to anyway.

Once I've found a good plumber etc. they stay in my contacts book, but when looking for that first-time or replacement skill, this seems to work well.

VRD[/quote]

If you want to find a good tradesman ask another good tradesman. I was building for 30 years, it's inevitable that you come across other builders and tradesmen, on occasion you use their services. It doesn't take long to find out who is very good at their job and reasonably priced. When you find them you keep in contact with them.

You often get offered work outside your trade so you are able to pass it on to people you trust. If a client asked me to do the decorating after we built an extension I'd give them the name of a decorator I knew, same with boiler work and other trades . They would do the same for you. You wouldn't recommend someone who might let the client down because that might reflect badly on you.

If you have a plumber or electrician you trust ask them when you need another tradesman. You will get a good workman and maybe save a few pounds at the same time.

When I retired to this area I quickly found all the tradesmen I need using exactly this technique.

Quite a few years ago a company I worked for had a fax machine (I told you it was a few years ago) which was forever out of order with paper jamming. It was under a service contract so the engineer made frequent visits to fix it. The trouble was it was just worn out, so whatever he did would last until he left the building.

Eventually we got fed up and bought a new one, and then contacted to the service company to cancel the contract on the old one.

"Ah hah" they said when we phoned them up "your contract is due for renewal in 28 days and you needed to give us a month's notice to cancel, so you have to pay for another year". We pointed out how frequently they had sent out their engineer over the last 12 months, but they were having none of it. We had to pay.

Now my boss was a vindictive git, so although we were now using the new machine he kept the old one plugged in and every week he would instruct us to send a fax through it. And sure as eggs were eggs it would jam, and we would call the service company to send the engineer out again.

By then the engineer, who could see the new machine plugged in next to the pile of junk he was being called out repeatedly to fix, was pleading with us to throw it in the bin.

Nope, "contracts are contracts" he would be told, and "see you next Friday" as he left.

AndyPandy wrote:I'm seriously considering Homeserve or similar for the CH as at least they do guarantee a reasonable response time in an emergency.

Reasonable tactic, or a sign of getting older and wanting less hassle in my life in return for yet another Direct Debit?

I don't know what Homeserve charge, but do read the reviews because they used to be quite iffy. A major problem was that they were refusing to pay out on heating faults - although, having said that, I can also imagine customers who've neglected their systems and don't like facing up to the consequences. There are those.......

I have a home emergency insurance policy, from Allianz, which costs me about £3.60 a month, and which covers me for immediate/emergency repairs to structural stuff like plumbing, heating, electricity, roof damage, doors and windows. But not for kitchen machinery breakdowns or a whole new boiler, and BTW they do want to see proof that a boiler's been serviced. They also say that the cover includes pest control, and I gather that it also covers a blocked toilet if it's the only one in the house. (If you've got two, you haven't got an emergency. )

I've only ever had to use them once, for a failed immersion heater, and they were very good, considering that it was three days before Christmas and it was snowing. An assessor came straight out from the other side of Wiltshire to confirm the problem, and an independent plumber was with us the next day. It looked like a lot of expensive procedural faff to replace a £20 heater element, frankly, but if that was how they wanted to play it, I was happy enough to let them.

Works for me, anyway. Less than the price of a pint per month.

BJ