What is it with the French?

[bungeejumper]

"Das Wetter ist heute windig".

Chum learned this by rote and churned it out in the firtst bar they went to. It didnt get them a beer shall i say, but did get them a smile and an enquiring look.

The oldest and cruellest practical joke in the book. As in Monty Python's Hungarian phrasebook. "Drop your panties, Sir William, I cannot wait till lunchtime".

BJ

[UncleEbenezer]

"Das Wetter ist heute windig".

Chum learned this by rote and churned it out in the firtst bar they went to. It didnt get them a beer shall i say, but did get them a smile and an enquiring look.

The oldest and cruellest practical joke in the book. As in Monty Python's Hungarian phrasebook. "Drop your panties, Sir William, I cannot wait till lunchtime".

BJ

Compared to learning the mass through regular exposure, one might call it a wing and a prayer.

Noone does it better than the late, great, Gerard Hoffnung.

[Rhyd6]

I am a Welsh speaker and have no problem holding a conversation with someone who speaks Breton. I'd say we're about 80% compatible, when my Grandmother was alive and Johnny Onions came around selling his wares they used to natter away like madeand the two languages were even closer, mind you what he made of Camp coffee I dread to think. I was always taught that a lot of English place names could be traced to Welsh roots, the only one I can bring to mind is Wendover which I believe came from dwr gwyn - white water.

R6

[UncleEbenezer]

I am a Welsh speaker and have no problem holding a conversation with someone who speaks Breton.
R6

Cornish speakers likewise[1].

And all three of your nations share a tune to your national anthems. Give it to one of your fine choirs and it firmly beats the marseillaise, let along that dirge gawd 'elp the queen.

[1] I'm not one, but I have friends who are.

[rabbit]

I am a Welsh speaker and have no problem holding a conversation with someone who speaks Breton.
R6

Cornish speakers likewise[1].

And all three of your nations share a tune to your national anthems. Give it to one of your fine choirs and it firmly beats the marseillaise, let along that dirge gawd 'elp the queen.

[1] I'm not one, but I have friends who are.

Very true. My late father's first language was Welsh, and he was very happy to converse in Breton as well as translating some of the more obscure Cornish place names.

[stevensfo]

I am a Welsh speaker and have no problem holding a conversation with someone who speaks Breton.
R6

Cornish speakers likewise[1].

And all three of your nations share a tune to your national anthems. Give it to one of your fine choirs and it firmly beats the marseillaise, let along that dirge gawd 'elp the queen.

[1] I'm not one, but I have friends who are.

I'm sure that I read somewhere that the last native speaker of Cornish died hundreds of years ago and when government support of all these languages suddenly became fashionable, a lot of the correct pronunciation had to be guessed. So they probably based it on Welsh and Breton.

Amazing how things change. I remember my Welsh grandfather telling me how there was a period when children were punished if they spoke Welsh in school. It was probably worse in France where the Academie Francaise has (or used to have) an almost religious-like status, and tried to stamp out all minority languages. Fortunately, in both countries, people don't like being told what language to speak!

Steve

[Nimrod103]

We went to Brittany last year on holiday, for the first time. Only in the north of Brittany are the place name signs bi-lingual. All other signs (roadsigns etc) were only in French. In the south of Brittany, there was no evidence of Breton at all. Such a contrast to Wales, where the English language seems to be on the retreat.

[didds]

Such a contrast to Wales, where the English language seems to be on the retreat.

I suspect its still broadly known by 100% of Welsh speakers. So maybe not predominant/preemeinent... but still widly/totally spoken and understood when the occassion permits.

didds

[UncleEbenezer]

I'm sure that I read somewhere that the last native speaker of Cornish died hundreds of years ago

That'll be the last speaker of only Cornish, or of only-Cornish-as-native. Not the last bilingual Cornish-English speaker. I suspect it's similarly true of Welsh, that its speakers all *also* speak English.

[Rhyd6]

If I'm honest we Welsh speakers tend to speak Cymlish because so many English words have been assimilated into the Welsh language. The welsh for car is modur but I can't remember the last time I heard that. Two of my grandchildren went to Patagonia last year, they were delighted that the Welsh speakers there still spoke proper Welsh ie. the Welsh that their ancestors who emigtated in Victorian times spoke but they also noticed that their Welsh is sometimes peppered with Spanish words.
On the subject of spoken Cornish I seem to remember a story that when the last Cornish speaker had died her parrot continued to speak Cornish and so they recorded the parrot speaking in order to try and preserve the pronounciation. Don't know if this is true or one of those urban myths.

R6

[bungeejumper]

On the subject of spoken Cornish I seem to remember a story that when the last Cornish speaker had died her parrot continued to speak Cornish and so they recorded the parrot speaking in order to try and preserve the pronounciation. Don't know if this is true or one of those urban myths.

Well, the parrot technique appears to have worked for Humboldt and a disappearing South American language. Although the tape recorder was still 150 years away. https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/664 ... uage-alive

I'd guess that this might have been the origin of the Cornish story?

So much for the parrots of Penzance, then. All right, all right, I'll get me coat.

BJ

[stevensfo]

On the subject of spoken Cornish I seem to remember a story that when the last Cornish speaker had died her parrot continued to speak Cornish and so they recorded the parrot speaking in order to try and preserve the pronounciation. Don't know if this is true or one of those urban myths.

Well, the parrot technique appears to have worked for Humboldt and a disappearing South American language. Although the tape recorder was still 150 years away. https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/664 ... uage-alive

I'd guess that this might have been the origin of the Cornish story?

So much for the parrots of Penzance, then. All right, all right, I'll get me coat.

BJ

A story worthy of Terry Jones and Michael Palin!

Across the Andes by Frog
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0686860/

Wasn't there a film or detective story once where the parrot gave the game away? The policemen about to leave when the parrot starts squawking "Jeffrey, put the gun down!"? Or something like that? Roald Dahl's Tales of the unexpected?

Steve

[bungeejumper]

Wasn't there a film or detective story once where the parrot gave the game away? The policemen about to leave when the parrot starts squawking "Jeffrey, put the gun down!"? Or something like that? Roald Dahl's Tales of the unexpected?

Happened in real life - in Canada, I think? I'll try and find it.

[Edit] Nearly Canada, it was Michigan. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40665520

BJ

[swill453]

Such a contrast to Wales, where the English language seems to be on the retreat.

I suspect its still broadly known by 100% of Welsh speakers.

Not quite true. There are significant parts of North Wales where kids don't learn English until they go to school, as their families speak exclusively Welsh at home.

Scott.

[Lootman]

Such a contrast to Wales, where the English language seems to be on the retreat.

I suspect its still broadly known by 100% of Welsh speakers.

Not quite true. There are significant parts of North Wales where kids don't learn English until they go to school, as their families speak exclusively Welsh at home.

That may be true but surely Welsh kids watch TV and maybe even look at the internet? How much of that is in Welsh?

I recall visits to Aberdeenshire where I could not understand much of the local dialect but they could understand me. When I asked why I was told that it is because of them watching English TV, films etc.

[swill453]

There are significant parts of North Wales where kids don't learn English until they go to school, as their families speak exclusively Welsh at home.

That may be true but surely Welsh kids watch TV and maybe even look at the internet? How much of that is in Welsh?

I recall visits to Aberdeenshire where I could not understand much of the local dialect but they could understand me. When I asked why I was told that it is because of them watching English TV, films etc.

They've got Welsh language telly you know.

My information may be a little out of date, but an ex told me her nieces, who'll be about 30 now, didn't know any English till they went to school. They lived in a small village near Caernarfon.

Scott.

[Rhyd6]

Swill was it Bethesda? My eldest grandson's wife, who is from Bethesda, didn't speak any English until she was six. They met when they were both teaching in a Welsh speaking school in Porthmadog, when he first introduced her he did so in English because OH doesn't have any Welsh and at first I thought she was a bit slow it was only when she asked me something in Welsh that I realised she was having to translate as she spoke to him. They now have their first son who will be completely bi-lingual from the word go because they've decided to do a day of English followed by a day of Welsh.
There is no-one young or old left in Wales who can't understand English be they 1 or 81, TV has seen to that and if anyone says that they can't understand English offer them money in English and they'll snatch your hand off.

R6

[swill453]

Swill was it Bethesda?

No, Groeslon.

Scott.

[Nimrod103]

There is no-one young or old left in Wales who can't understand English be they 1 or 81, TV has seen to that and if anyone says that they can't understand English offer them money in English and they'll snatch your hand off.

R6

Except if they are a member of the Welsh Assembly. A friend of mine has a Welsh speaking Libyan son in law (yes, really). He was called in when a Libyan business delegation was being shown around a South Wales plant by a top Welsh politico. That politico could have conversed with the top educated Libyan delegation in English, but insisted he would speak Welsh, which then had to be translated into Arabic.

[didds]

They've got Welsh language telly you know.

My information may be a little out of date, but an ex told me her nieces, who'll be about 30 now, didn't know any English till they went to school. They lived in a small village near Caernarfon.

Scott.

They do - but its one channel. Some welsh language shows on other main stream channels.
And a Welsh language radio station of course.

I don't buy into them only ever watching Welsh language television and listening to Radio Cymru, and no english language stations, let alone english language youtube and whatever else there is on the web.

I get your point about young children in predominnatly welsh speaking areas, so would temper my earlier point to be all but 100% of Welsh people of school age and above. I still feel confident in that claim.