Hold that haircut!

[servodude]

If they called themselves the John Bull English restaurant and sold indian style curry but called it "London curry", then yes that would be cultural appropriation.

Like "plastic paddy" Oirish bars?
Must confess I did work a few shifts in a newly opened JohnBull pub in Lund as a student - but I didn't put on an English accent!

-sd

[Lanark]

That counts Hispanics as white. If you instead count them as non-white, which is certainly how most of them see themselves

As of 2019, 58.5 million or 18% of Americans identified as Hispanic or Latino. Of those, 38.3 million, or 65.5% (11.8% of the total U.S. population), also self-identified as white
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_His ... _Americans

So a majority 66% of latinos identify as white.

[Lootman]

That counts Hispanics as white. If you instead count them as non-white, which is certainly how most of them see themselves

As of 2019, 58.5 million or 18% of Americans identified as Hispanic or Latino. Of those, 38.3 million, or 65.5% (11.8% of the total U.S. population), also self-identified as white
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_His ... _Americans

So a majority 66% of latinos identify as white.

Like I said, it depends on how you classify people. Do we for instance let people "identify" any way they want? In which case classifications may not make much sense. For many official purposes Hispanics are lumped in with non-whites, and by that method CA and TX ceased to be majority white some time ago. See here:

"Six states are majority-minority as of July 2019: Hawaii (the only state that has never had a white majority), New Mexico, California, Texas, Nevada,and Maryland."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majority_ ... ted_States

Anyway, pick some other examples if you prefer. My point was that the assimilation/appropriation distinction goes out of the window once you consider places where whites are a minority.

[stevensfo]

That counts Hispanics as white. If you instead count them as non-white, which is certainly how most of them see themselves

As of 2019, 58.5 million or 18% of Americans identified as Hispanic or Latino. Of those, 38.3 million, or 65.5% (11.8% of the total U.S. population), also self-identified as white
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_His ... _Americans

So a majority 66% of latinos identify as white.

Could somebody please explain the difference between Hispanics, Spanish and Latinos? Is there a 'Melanin index' where the colour of the skin becomes a deciding factor?

Are UK retirees in Spain or Mexico, who have a tan, now Hispanics, Latinos?

Steve

[Lanark]

My point was that the assimilation/appropriation distinction goes out of the window once you consider places where whites are a minority.

Not really it still depends on context, the % of white or black population is only relevant where 'all other things are equal' and they rarely are, going back to Justin Beiber, if he moved to an African state where he was the only white person, him wearing dreads would still be appropriation because of his outsized fame and influence.

[Watis]

My point was that the assimilation/appropriation distinction goes out of the window once you consider places where whites are a minority.

Not really it still depends on context, the % of white or black population is only relevant where 'all other things are equal' and they rarely are, going back to Justin Beiber, if he moved to an African state where he was the only white person, him wearing dreads would still be appropriation because of his outsized fame and influence.

Would this be true even if the inhabitants of said African state had never heard of Justin Bieber?

I'm asking because, in all seriousness, and per my earlier post asking why eating food associated with a different culture is not cultural appropriation, where is the boundary - and who set it?

Watis

[Lootman]

That counts Hispanics as white. If you instead count them as non-white, which is certainly how most of them see themselves

As of 2019, 58.5 million or 18% of Americans identified as Hispanic or Latino. Of those, 38.3 million, or 65.5% (11.8% of the total U.S. population), also self-identified as white
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_His ... _Americans

So a majority 66% of latinos identify as white.

Could somebody please explain the difference between Hispanics, Spanish and Latinos? Is there a 'Melanin index' where the colour of the skin becomes a deciding factor?

Are UK retirees in Spain or Mexico, who have a tan, now Hispanics, Latinos?

The easy part of that is that people from Spain are Spanish. From Portugal, they are Portuguese. Taken together you can call them Iberian, perhaps.

"Hispanic" and "Latino" are almost the same - they mean people from southern or central America. Technically Brazilians could be regarded as not being Hispanic since they were colonised by Portugal and not Spain, but nobody cares.

Some claim that "Latino" is more politically correct as "Hispanic" is deemed to be a more recent term invented by whites. But I suspect only white liberals trying to out-woke each other care. A further minefield is that "latino" can be considered male and those who believe that call female Hispanics "latina". To further muddy the water there is the artificial fake generically neuter term "latinx".

It gets messy because "Hispanic" is not an original race at all but rather a term that describes people from a region that has been a mix of white, black and native American for a long time. So it is an artificial faux race. That is why the last US census asked questions about how Hispanics "identify", which of course introduces a subjective element. Some identify as "white" to assimilate whereas others identify as non-white to enjoy various benefits available to minorities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_ ... categories)

[MDW1954]

If you ignore other cultures, then you are a systemic racist.

If you admire and adopt the ways of other cultures, then you are culturally appropriating.

I ignore putting a comma before then.

I insert a comma where I would insert a brief pause were I to be speaking the words rather than writing them. Not technically correct, perhaps, but it feels right. More about emphasis than precision. Same with colons, semicolons, hyphens etc.

I'm a professional writer, and have been for 30+ years.

I agree with you 100%.

MDW1954

[brightncheerful]

I'm a professional writer, and have been for 30+ years.

I agree with you 100%.

MDW1954

Surely i agree with you' is sufficient?

You either agree or you don't.

[Lootman]

I'm a professional writer, and have been for 30+ years.

I agree with you 100%.

MDW1954

Surely i agree with you' is sufficient?

You either agree or you don't.

The expression "I am mostly pregnant" doesn't make any sense, but the expression "I mostly agree with you" does, surely?

[stevensfo]

As of 2019, 58.5 million or 18% of Americans identified as Hispanic or Latino. Of those, 38.3 million, or 65.5% (11.8% of the total U.S. population), also self-identified as white
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_His ... _Americans

So a majority 66% of latinos identify as white.

Could somebody please explain the difference between Hispanics, Spanish and Latinos? Is there a 'Melanin index' where the colour of the skin becomes a deciding factor?

Are UK retirees in Spain or Mexico, who have a tan, now Hispanics, Latinos?

The easy part of that is that people from Spain are Spanish. From Portugal, they are Portuguese. Taken together you can call them Iberian, perhaps.

"Hispanic" and "Latino" are almost the same - they mean people from southern or central America. Technically Brazilians could be regarded as not being Hispanic since they were colonised by Portugal and not Spain, but nobody cares.

Some claim that "Latino" is more politically correct as "Hispanic" is deemed to be a more recent term invented by whites. But I suspect only white liberals trying to out-woke each other care. A further minefield is that "latino" can be considered male and those who believe that call female Hispanics "latina". To further muddy the water there is the artificial fake generically neuter term "latinx".

It gets messy because "Hispanic" is not an original race at all but rather a term that describes people from a region that has been a mix of white, black and native American for a long time. So it is an artificial faux race. That is why the last US census asked questions about how Hispanics "identify", which of course introduces a subjective element. Some identify as "white" to assimilate whereas others identify as non-white to enjoy various benefits available to minorities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_ ... categories)

It's the sort of thing that, 40 years ago, would be have provided endless material for Monty Python sketches. Not so today, I fear.

Re. that cultural appropriation rubbish, I wonder how Michael Jackson would fare today with turning his skin white?

Steve

[dionaeamuscipula]

I ignore putting a comma before then.

I insert a comma where I would insert a brief pause were I to be speaking the words rather than writing them. Not technically correct, perhaps, but it feels right. More about emphasis than precision. Same with colons, semicolons, hyphens etc.

I'm a professional writer, and have been for 30+ years.

I agree with you 100%.

MDW1954

By Lootman's own rules, there should be a proto-oxfordian comma after "hyphens"

DM

[MDW1954]

I insert a comma where I would insert a brief pause were I to be speaking the words rather than writing them. Not technically correct, perhaps, but it feels right. More about emphasis than precision. Same with colons, semicolons, hyphens etc.

I'm a professional writer, and have been for 30+ years.

I agree with you 100%.

MDW1954

By Lootman's own rules, there should be a proto-oxfordian comma after "hyphens"

DM

You are of course correct. But I was agreeing with his sentiments, not commenting on his punctuation.

MDW1954

[BobbyD]

Leicester 51% White
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_Leicester

Don't bother with facts
I generally find they'll just try and come up with some "I'm not racist but..." ordure
-sd

That 'fact' is 10 years out of date...

White majority in the States is eeking out it's last couple of decades, the US Census bureau's statistics make for some interesting reading for example this for California

Race and Hispanic Origin
White alone, percent 71.9%
Black or African American alone, percent(a) 6.5%
American Indian and Alaska Native alone, percent(a) 1.6%
Asian alone, percent(a) 15.5%
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander alone, percent(a) 0.5%
Two or More Races, percent 4.0%
Hispanic or Latino, percent(b) 39.4%
White alone, not Hispanic or Latino, percent 36.5%

- https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/CA

but as long as we are just throwing wiki quotes about:

Six states are majority-minority as of July 2019: Hawaii (the only state that has never had a white majority), New Mexico, California, Texas, Nevada,[4][5][6] and Maryland.[7]

-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majority_minority_in_the_United_States#:~:text=Six%20states%20are%20majority%2Dminority,stages%20of%20the%20Great%20Migration.

[servodude]

"Majority-minority" is the kind of phrase that does for English what Mick Hucknall did for dreadlocks

-sd

[Lanark]

The problem with many of these ethnicity comparisons is that they often reek of white supremacy:
"anyone who is not of pure aryan white ancestry has to be counted as black"
We all know where those attitudes lead.

[Lootman]

The problem with many of these ethnicity comparisons is that they often reek of white supremacy:
"anyone who is not of pure aryan white ancestry has to be counted as black"
We all know where those attitudes lead.

Who the heck here was saying that?

The main races are considered to be white, black, Asian and Hispanic, with smaller groupings of Native/Indigenous Americans and Pacific Islanders.

And the people who make these comparisons are usually not "white supremacists" (do you even know any of those? I do not) but rather non-white groups seeking to promote their rights and power.

My own personal rule of thumb is that if you want to know who is the racist in the room, see who is the first person to introduce race into a topic that is about something else.