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Hold that haircut!

A virtual pub for off topic, light hearted pub related banter and discussion. No trainers
Clitheroekid
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Hold that haircut!

#407744

Postby Clitheroekid » April 28th, 2021, 4:54 pm

I'm not sure how many of the Snug regulars have been contemplating asking their barber to give them a set of `locs' (dreadlocks to the ignorant) but let this be a warning to think very carefully about going through with it!

As Mr Bieber has recently discovered, it amounts to the dreaded cultural appropriation, and you are at severe risk of being cancelled, a fate quite possibly worse than death.

https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/202 ... GTUK_email

terminal7
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Re: Hold that haircut!

#407756

Postby terminal7 » April 28th, 2021, 5:34 pm

Frankly I cancelled JB when I read:

"I feel like my relationship with God is wonderful,”

“And I have this outpouring of love that I want to be able to share with people, you know?”


Just could not stand that 'you know' you know.

T7

Lootman
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Re: Hold that haircut!

#407772

Postby Lootman » April 28th, 2021, 6:38 pm

If you ignore other cultures, then you are a systemic racist.

If you admire and adopt the ways of other cultures, then you are culturally appropriating.

Can't win really.

UncleEbenezer
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Re: Hold that haircut!

#407799

Postby UncleEbenezer » April 28th, 2021, 8:01 pm

Around the beginning of the 1990s I had a white dreadlocked colleague (and later two, as another joined the department). Noone worried about it back then.

That was academia. But - probably more importantly - it was a different time. Before Blair had replaced general-purpose Britishness for everyone with "multicultural" tribal identities that some want to guard against any intrusion from outside the tribe. Us and Them in action.

That was also an era when those headscarves some asian students wore just looked cute - before those became another symbol of us-and-them.

p.s. is it cultural appropriation when a black person wears a business suit? Thought not.

brightncheerful
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Re: Hold that haircut!

#407826

Postby brightncheerful » April 28th, 2021, 10:04 pm

Lootman wrote:If you ignore other cultures, then you are a systemic racist.

If you admire and adopt the ways of other cultures, then you are culturally appropriating.

.


I ignore putting a comma before then. :)

Lootman
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Re: Hold that haircut!

#407834

Postby Lootman » April 28th, 2021, 10:49 pm

brightncheerful wrote:
Lootman wrote:If you ignore other cultures, then you are a systemic racist.

If you admire and adopt the ways of other cultures, then you are culturally appropriating.

I ignore putting a comma before then. :)

I insert a comma where I would insert a brief pause were I to be speaking the words rather than writing them. Not technically correct, perhaps, but it feels right. More about emphasis than precision. Same with colons, semicolons, hyphens etc.

Lanark
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Re: Hold that haircut!

#407838

Postby Lanark » April 28th, 2021, 10:54 pm

The thing about cultural appropriation is that it is very context driven, some random white teenager wearing a black hairstyle, nobody is going to care.

A pop star with millions of followers and the ability to set fashion trends is quite different, it is very possible for him to steamroller over the culture of a much smaller minority so that people start to primarily associate the hairstyle with that celebrity.

Imagine if an American president decided to ditch the stars and stripes and use the Union Jack instead, then put it onto everything so that it became associated with the US, I think the British people would have a right to feel aggrieved.

On the other hand if an American kid decided to plant a Union Jack in their front yard, no-one would object - context matters.

Lanark
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Re: Hold that haircut!

#407840

Postby Lanark » April 28th, 2021, 11:00 pm

UncleEbenezer wrote:p.s. is it cultural appropriation when a black person wears a business suit? Thought not.

No thats cultural assimilation, when a minority adopts the cultural standards of the majority they are just fitting in, they aren't going to move the needle on what that culture is or means.

Moosehoosenew
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Re: Hold that haircut!

#407845

Postby Moosehoosenew » April 28th, 2021, 11:08 pm

Not sure what Lanark is on aboot as we say up here?

But when a pretendy parliament set up to share some powers around the UK, goes native and chooses to put the saltire and the EU flag on anything they can is that cultural appropriation?

Scotland currently being encouraged to give up the UK subsidy of 2k per person so that we can make our own decisions, today one of our top politicians whose previous best job was being a holiday rep was getting right stuck into UK politics. Up here anyone can make it.

Lootman
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Re: Hold that haircut!

#407854

Postby Lootman » April 28th, 2021, 11:52 pm

Lanark wrote:
UncleEbenezer wrote:p.s. is it cultural appropriation when a black person wears a business suit? Thought not.

No thats cultural assimilation, when a minority adopts the cultural standards of the majority they are just fitting in, they aren't going to move the needle on what that culture is or means.

So what about places like Texas, California and Leicester that are minority white? Would it then be the whites who are "assimilating" when they adopt non-white ways, whilst the non-whites would be "appropriating" when they take on white ways?

And wouldn't the world be a better place if people stopped racially stereotyping in the first place? I believe that was the real message here.

UncleEbenezer
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Re: Hold that haircut!

#407855

Postby UncleEbenezer » April 28th, 2021, 11:59 pm

Lanark wrote:Imagine if an American president decided to ditch the stars and stripes and use the Union Jack instead, then put it onto everything so that it became associated with the US, I think the British people would have a right to feel aggrieved.


Why on Earth would we feel aggrieved? They do that with our language - and call it English - but the worst we feel about that is mild exasperation.

Bemused, certainly, that they would want to reverse Lafayette's victory and all their history since then. Maybe flattered that such a dominant power would adopt "our" colours. Certainly suspicious, in the sense that we'd question their motives. But not, by any stretch, aggrieved.

Even if they abused it really badly - like a German government once did with that ancient and noble symbol the Swastika - you can be pretty sure the UK government would be fully complicit.

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Re: Hold that haircut!

#407859

Postby Lanark » April 29th, 2021, 12:16 am

Lootman wrote:
Lanark wrote:
UncleEbenezer wrote:p.s. is it cultural appropriation when a black person wears a business suit? Thought not.

No thats cultural assimilation, when a minority adopts the cultural standards of the majority they are just fitting in, they aren't going to move the needle on what that culture is or means.

So what about places like Texas, California and Leicester that are minority white? Would it then be the whites who are "assimilating" when they adopt non-white ways, whilst the non-whites would be "appropriating" when they take on white ways?

Texas 70% white
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Texas
California 79% White
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demograph ... California
Leicester 51% White
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_Leicester

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Re: Hold that haircut!

#407896

Postby Watis » April 29th, 2021, 8:44 am

Clitheroekid wrote:I'm not sure how many of the Snug regulars have been contemplating asking their barber to give them a set of `locs' (dreadlocks to the ignorant) but let this be a warning to think very carefully about going through with it!

As Mr Bieber has recently discovered, it amounts to the dreaded cultural appropriation, and you are at severe risk of being cancelled, a fate quite possibly worse than death.

https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/202 ... GTUK_email



You've got me worried now. If a haircut or clothing can be cultural appropriation, why stop there?

I regularly enjoy a curry and a lasagne - although not at the same time!

Why isn't that cultural appropriation too?

Watis

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Re: Hold that haircut!

#407910

Postby UncleEbenezer » April 29th, 2021, 9:19 am

Watis wrote:I regularly enjoy a curry and a lasagne - although not at the same time!

Why isn't that cultural appropriation too?

Watis


No, that's culinary appropriation. Or culinarily appropriate. Or something.

And now you mention it, a curry-flavoured lasagne might be an interesting novelty dish. Must try it sometime.

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Re: Hold that haircut!

#407969

Postby Lanark » April 29th, 2021, 11:23 am

Watis wrote:
Clitheroekid wrote:I'm not sure how many of the Snug regulars have been contemplating asking their barber to give them a set of `locs' (dreadlocks to the ignorant) but let this be a warning to think very carefully about going through with it!

As Mr Bieber has recently discovered, it amounts to the dreaded cultural appropriation, and you are at severe risk of being cancelled, a fate quite possibly worse than death.

https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/202 ... GTUK_email



You've got me worried now. If a haircut or clothing can be cultural appropriation, why stop there?

I regularly enjoy a curry and a lasagne - although not at the same time!

Why isn't that cultural appropriation too?

Watis

Restaurants will usually advertise themselves honestly: The Foo Wung Chinese Restaurant, The Bengal Indian Restaurant etc

If they called themselves the John Bull English restaurant and sold indian style curry but called it "London curry", then yes that would be cultural appropriation.

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Re: Hold that haircut!

#407981

Postby redsturgeon » April 29th, 2021, 11:42 am

Lanark wrote:
Watis wrote:
Clitheroekid wrote:I'm not sure how many of the Snug regulars have been contemplating asking their barber to give them a set of `locs' (dreadlocks to the ignorant) but let this be a warning to think very carefully about going through with it!

As Mr Bieber has recently discovered, it amounts to the dreaded cultural appropriation, and you are at severe risk of being cancelled, a fate quite possibly worse than death.

https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/202 ... GTUK_email



You've got me worried now. If a haircut or clothing can be cultural appropriation, why stop there?

I regularly enjoy a curry and a lasagne - although not at the same time!

Why isn't that cultural appropriation too?

Watis

Restaurants will usually advertise themselves honestly: The Foo Wung Chinese Restaurant, The Bengal Indian Restaurant etc

If they called themselves the John Bull English restaurant and sold indian style curry but called it "London curry", then yes that would be cultural appropriation.


Most of the curries eaten in the UK are owe more to Bradford and Birmingham and Brick Lane than the Indian subcontinent.

John

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Re: Hold that haircut!

#408012

Postby Lootman » April 29th, 2021, 12:52 pm

Lanark wrote:
Lootman wrote:
Lanark wrote:No thats cultural assimilation, when a minority adopts the cultural standards of the majority they are just fitting in, they aren't going to move the needle on what that culture is or means.

So what about places like Texas, California and Leicester that are minority white? Would it then be the whites who are "assimilating" when they adopt non-white ways, whilst the non-whites would be "appropriating" when they take on white ways?

Texas 70% white
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Texas
California 79% White
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demograph ... California
Leicester 51% White
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_Leicester

That counts Hispanics as white. If you instead count them as non-white, which is certainly how most of them see themselves, then CA and TX are already "majority minority", and that trend continues.

Leicester is too close to call, but claims it went minority white in 2009.

redsturgeon wrote:Most of the curries eaten in the UK are owe more to Bradford and Birmingham and Brick Lane than the Indian subcontinent.

Based in my three visits to India, the curries are better here than there.

servodude
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Re: Hold that haircut!

#408013

Postby servodude » April 29th, 2021, 12:58 pm

redsturgeon wrote:
Most of the curries eaten in the UK are owe more to Bradford and Birmingham and Brick Lane than the Indian subcontinent.

John


The Shish Mahal in Glasgow would like a word ;)

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Re: Hold that haircut!

#408015

Postby servodude » April 29th, 2021, 1:00 pm

Lanark wrote:
Lootman wrote:
Lanark wrote:No thats cultural assimilation, when a minority adopts the cultural standards of the majority they are just fitting in, they aren't going to move the needle on what that culture is or means.

So what about places like Texas, California and Leicester that are minority white? Would it then be the whites who are "assimilating" when they adopt non-white ways, whilst the non-whites would be "appropriating" when they take on white ways?

Texas 70% white
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Texas
California 79% White
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demograph ... California
Leicester 51% White
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_Leicester


Don't bother with facts
I generally find they'll just try and come up with some "I'm not racist but..." ordure
-sd

Lootman
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Re: Hold that haircut!

#408019

Postby Lootman » April 29th, 2021, 1:07 pm

servodude wrote:
Lanark wrote:
Lootman wrote:So what about places like Texas, California and Leicester that are minority white? Would it then be the whites who are "assimilating" when they adopt non-white ways, whilst the non-whites would be "appropriating" when they take on white ways?

Texas 70% white
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Texas
California 79% White
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demograph ... California
Leicester 51% White
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_Leicester

Don't bother with facts
I generally find they'll just try and come up with some "I'm not racist but..." ordure

You just made the same error as Lanark. As noted above if you actually bothered to read the links you will see that Hispanics are lumped in with Whites in those stats.

So yeah, why bother with facts? I guess you're not racist but . . .


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