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Disengagement

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bungeejumper
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Re: Disengagement

#451174

Postby bungeejumper » October 19th, 2021, 9:04 am

absolutezero wrote:I do find it odd that on an investment forum there are people who have never posted anything about investment.

...Very very odd. Who are these people and why do they come here?

Well, here's a start. I rarely comment on investment here, because it's simply too close to my day job. (Or rather, it was before I retired.) When I'm off duty, I'd rather chat about cars or DIY or culture, or crack a few dodgy jokes, than get embroiled in the finer aspects of investment situations where others might have perfectly valid ways of looking at things but they probably won't like mine. :twisted: .

What I do appreciate on these boards is the high calibre of critical thinking that you tend to find among investor types in general. Of course, there are some who get on their high horses and rant endlessly about some political cause, and there are some who become abusive or dismissive without good reason, but my foe list contains only one person at present. That's a pretty good ratio, I think. ;)

BJ

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Re: Disengagement

#451186

Postby XFool » October 19th, 2021, 9:29 am

absolutezero wrote:I do find it odd that on an investment forum there are people who have never posted anything about investment.
This is true for one of two of the main instigators.

"instigators"?

absolutezero wrote: I know this because in a fit of boredom one day I viewed every single post they had made up to that point. It was mostly Brexit/Tories with a bit on TV and films. And bizarrely for someone claiming an interest in investment and making themselves better off (why else sign up to TLF as opposed to a politics site?), they had a prolific bit about a wealth tax.

So, whoever they are, they did post something money/investment related? We seem to be back to those auto-contradicting posts again!

absolutezero wrote:Very very odd. Who are these people and why do they come here?

Who are these people who are so interested in what others choose to post about? Why are they so concerned?

Very very odd.

absolutezero wrote:It would be like me signing up to Mumsnet to post about the 'evil Tories'/Brexit even though I have no children and actively dislike them.

Would it? Why?

You think posting in say, Coronovirus Discussions, is the equivalent of posting on an "investment forum" slagging off investing?

Very very odd.

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Re: Disengagement

#451194

Postby XFool » October 19th, 2021, 9:49 am

absolutezero wrote:I do find it odd that on an investment forum there are people who have never posted anything about investment.
This is true for one of two of the main instigators.

I know this because in a fit of boredom one day I viewed every single post they had made up to that point.

An interesting thought has just occurred to me...

I wonder what the result would be if I ran a cross check on all those TLF posters complaining about the posting habits of other TLF posters, against a list of regular contributors to the HYP investing boards?

As many know, if you want a fight, post on the TLF HYP boards (one reason many TLFers don't post there?). Perhaps there are not now enough posters on there for some, so they are trying to start a fight elsewhere?

It's a thought! :)

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Re: Disengagement

#451203

Postby tjh290633 » October 19th, 2021, 10:06 am

XFool wrote:
absolutezero wrote:I do find it odd that on an investment forum there are people who have never posted anything about investment.
This is true for one of two of the main instigators.

I know this because in a fit of boredom one day I viewed every single post they had made up to that point.

An interesting thought has just occurred to me...

I wonder what the result would be if I ran a cross check on all those TLF posters complaining about the posting habits of other TLF posters, against a list of regular contributors to the HYP investing boards?

As many know, if you want a fight, post on the TLF HYP boards (one reason many TLFers don't post there?). Perhaps there are not now enough posters on there for some, so they are trying to start a fight elsewhere?

It's a thought! :)

You ought to include yourself in that search, Xfool. Just to make sure that it is not a case of "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone".

We are probably all guilty.

TJH

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Re: Disengagement

#451215

Postby XFool » October 19th, 2021, 10:21 am

tjh290633 wrote:
XFool wrote:An interesting thought has just occurred to me...

I wonder what the result would be if I ran a cross check on all those TLF posters complaining about the posting habits of other TLF posters, against a list of regular contributors to the HYP investing boards?

As many know, if you want a fight, post on the TLF HYP boards (one reason many TLFers don't post there?). Perhaps there are not now enough posters on there for some, so they are trying to start a fight elsewhere?

It's a thought! :)

You ought to include yourself in that search, Xfool. Just to make sure that it is not a case of "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone".

No. I don't post on the HYP boards. ;)

Or spend my time complaining about the posting habits of other TLF posters...
(Apart from here, now. Obviously.)
Last edited by XFool on October 19th, 2021, 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Disengagement

#451228

Postby Clariman » October 19th, 2021, 10:49 am

Moderator Message:
There were some interesting posts at times on this topic, but now entering into point scoring mode. Please don't rise to the bait, otherwise topic will be locked. I will comment later on any sensible issues that have been raised. Clariman


P.S. can mods keep an eye on this topic and feel free to lock if need be. I'm not likely to be online until later today.

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Re: Disengagement

#451237

Postby tjh290633 » October 19th, 2021, 10:59 am

XFool wrote:No. I don't post on the HYP boards. ;)

I grant you "not any more", but we have had spats on there.

TJH

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Re: Disengagement

#451245

Postby XFool » October 19th, 2021, 11:23 am

tjh290633 wrote:
XFool wrote:No. I don't post on the HYP boards. ;)

I grant you "not any more", but we have had spats on there.

TJH

Really? I doubt it! It's not a board I post on, off the top of my head I can only recollect about two occasions I posted there - both 'informational'.
And the latest post I can recollect was both very tentative (because I am not a knowledgeable HYP poster) and intended to be helpful to 'issues' on there. People seem to have very different interpretations/recollections of posts on TLF. :?:

Could you be confusing me with somebody else?

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Re: Disengagement

#451267

Postby sg31 » October 19th, 2021, 12:38 pm

I have boards I read and contribute to. I would be sorry to lose those.

I don't post on any boards which are subject to heated discussions although I do have some posters on my ignore list mainly because their views are so radically different to mine that I find no point in having discussions with them. We have no common ground.

Apart from those few I find the rest of the posters to be friendly and helpful. There is always an expert around when I need advice and these are real experts in most cases, solicitors, electricial , boiler engineers, the list is many and varied.

It would take a lot to turn me off from TLF, I've found ways to make it fit my needs. It's my second home online.

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Re: Disengagement

#451270

Postby SteMiS » October 19th, 2021, 12:47 pm

XFool wrote:
absolutezero wrote:I do find it odd that on an investment forum there are people who have never posted anything about investment.
This is true for one of two of the main instigators. I know this because in a fit of boredom one day I viewed every single post they had made up to that point. It was mostly Brexit/Tories with a bit on TV and films. And bizarrely for someone claiming an interest in investment and making themselves better off (why else sign up to TLF as opposed to a politics site?), they had a prolific bit about a wealth tax.

So, whoever they are, they did post something money/investment related? We seem to be back to those auto-contradicting posts again!

Yes, I wonder who they are too. Can't be me. Here I am posting a review of DX. - (viewtopic.php?p=429652#p429652). One rec, one reply. Wasn't really worth my effort was it. Or replying to a post on BOTB - (viewtopic.php?p=450550#p450550) one rec, no replies. Again, what was the point. There was a bit of discussion on Sylvania Platinum - (viewtopic.php?p=380342#p380342), about which I posted 4 times but that dried up 3 months ago (compared to 770 posts on Advfn). I'd be happy to post more on investment (after all I post extensively on Advfn and invest for a living) but frankly, apart from arguing about what is HYP or the seemingly never ending debate about Tesla, there really isn't much discussion or indeed interest in most individual shares. If the owners of the site want to stop the non investment boards that's up to them. But the site would be dead within a year.

I'm sure this discussion has been raised before, so sorry if I'm repeating myself, but I don't understand why (some) people are so agitated about people posing on boards they are not forced to read. I'm sure the HYP boards would drive me up the wall, but I don't read them so I don't care. It's does rather smack of people upset that their echo chambers are being disturbed. I thought the whole point of CAN was that places like this could function without being polluted by politics. After all, you don't want people like me coming over here and disturbing your peace, do you... ;)

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Re: Disengagement

#451274

Postby XFool » October 19th, 2021, 12:56 pm

SteMiS wrote:If the owners of the site want to stop the non investment boards that's up to them. But the site would be dead within a year.

I'm sure this discussion has been raised before, so sorry if I'm repeating myself, but I don't understand why (some) people are so agitated about people posing on boards they are not forced to read. I'm sure the HYP boards would drive me up the wall, but I don't read them so I don't care. It's does rather smack of people upset that their echo chambers are being disturbed. I thought the whole point of CAN was that places like this could function without being polluted by politics. After all, you don't want people like me coming over here and disturbing your peace, do you... ;)

I can't see much to disagree with there. ;)

(Perhaps it is all a matter of "People like us." ? Perhaps if I were a member of the local Rotary Club...? :) )

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Re: Disengagement

#451276

Postby dealtn » October 19th, 2021, 1:05 pm

XFool wrote:
SteMiS wrote:If the owners of the site want to stop the non investment boards that's up to them. But the site would be dead within a year.

I'm sure this discussion has been raised before, so sorry if I'm repeating myself, but I don't understand why (some) people are so agitated about people posing on boards they are not forced to read. I'm sure the HYP boards would drive me up the wall, but I don't read them so I don't care. It's does rather smack of people upset that their echo chambers are being disturbed. I thought the whole point of CAN was that places like this could function without being polluted by politics. After all, you don't want people like me coming over here and disturbing your peace, do you... ;)

I can't see much to disagree with there. ;)


What can be agitating though is when (some) people treat every thread, or board, as the equivalent of CAN, such that "off-topicness" and robust position taking results. Often this can lead to threads being either locked, or moved to CAN. Those that chose not to visit CAN, are then "forced to read" to continue the discussion, or are removed from it.

At its extreme the site potentially loses people and the resulting concentrating of behaviours and active boards that might result could leave the site owners with a site that isn't in tune with their original intentions.

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Re: Disengagement

#451281

Postby Dod101 » October 19th, 2021, 1:22 pm

I cannot criticise IAAG for his stance as I did something similar some years back, but it did not last long.

I have taken part in a few non investment discussions but usually drop out once I have made my point and the discussion has gone off at a tangent as most of them do. I do not care for the political ones because there is at the moment too much division in the country in general and we can do without that sort of thing here. Cynicism is another common attitude which appears to be quite common amongst some. It is though entirely unbecoming when used to excess but those who do so tend to be unable to 'see themselves as others see them' to misquote Rabbie Burns.

Obviously, the owners of the site need viewing numbers and contributors so it is hardly in their interests to do too much about this sort of thing but in recent times there has not been that much on 'Shares, Investment and Personal Finance Discussion' despite the fact that that is what the leader board tells us that TLF is all about.

Dod

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Re: Disengagement

#451283

Postby Lootman » October 19th, 2021, 1:31 pm

simsqu wrote:I don't understand any of this.

I have never posted anything about investment, but then again I tend to keep most of my sporadic posts to Beerpig's Snug. Should I not post anymore?

Yours

Confused of North London

It was SalvorHardin who first introduced (on this topic anyway) the phenomenon of Lemons who never post on investment topics, but that was within the context of people who also behave obsessively on certain more emotive boards like PD/CAN. So the complaint does not apply to impeccable Lemons like yourself who do not post on investment topics but who otherwise amuse, inform and entertain others.

If I understand SH correctly he means people who post a lot on TLF, often to attack capitalism or success, as if their rationale for being here is to lecture those who do invest about the error of our ways. That does beg the question of why they are here, and strikes some of us as borderline trolling.

For my part I also said to SH: "And by the way I read the posts that were hidden from you, and both were Lemons from whom I have never seen any useful investment discussion. A characterisation that could never be attributed to you." So I was not citing zero investment posts but rather zero useful investment posts. My criterion is whether I learned anything useful from such posters. I do learn a lot from SH but not so much some from the usual suspects on CAN with their repetitive proselyting.

There are three Lemons in particular who love to top post any and every article in the Guardian that criticises either the Tories or Brexit. Given that they know for a fact that they have never changed a single Lemon's opinion on such topics, AND they never post usefully on investment topics, why on earth do they do it at all?

Baffled in North London

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Re: Disengagement

#451286

Postby richfool » October 19th, 2021, 1:34 pm

Dod101 wrote:Obviously, the owners of the site need viewing numbers and contributors so it is hardly in their interests to do too much about this sort of thing but in recent times there has not been that much on 'Shares, Investment and Personal Finance Discussion' despite the fact that that is what the leader board tells us that TLF is all about.

(My bolding). Yes, absolutely. Something that Dod and I are in agreement on.

In fact I am on the point of leaving and have reduced my contributions and viewings of the forum, for that very reason - the lack of posts and discussions about investments, in particular Investment Trusts. And of the few posts about IT's, some even seem to get posted on HYP - Practical or company share boards.

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Re: Disengagement

#451293

Postby SteMiS » October 19th, 2021, 2:12 pm

Lootman wrote:
simsqu wrote:I don't understand any of this.

I have never posted anything about investment, but then again I tend to keep most of my sporadic posts to Beerpig's Snug. Should I not post anymore?

Yours

Confused of North London

It was SalvorHardin who first introduced (on this topic anyway) the phenomenon of Lemons who never post on investment topics, but that was within the context of people who also behave obsessively on certain more emotive boards like PD/CAN. So the complaint does not apply to impeccable Lemons like yourself who do not post on investment topics but who otherwise amuse, inform and entertain others.

If I understand SH correctly he means people who post a lot on TLF, often to attack capitalism or success, as if their rationale for being here is to lecture those who do invest about the error of our ways. That does beg the question of why they are here, and strikes some of us as borderline trolling.

For my part I also said to SH: "And by the way I read the posts that were hidden from you, and both were Lemons from whom I have never seen any useful investment discussion. A characterisation that could never be attributed to you." So I was not citing zero investment posts but rather zero useful investment posts. My criterion is whether I learned anything useful from such posters. I do learn a lot from SH but not so much some from the usual suspects on CAN with their repetitive proselyting.

There are three Lemons in particular who love to top post any and every article in the Guardian that criticises either the Tories or Brexit. Given that they know for a fact that they have never changed a single Lemon's opinion on such topics, AND they never post usefully on investment topics, why on earth do they do it at all?

Baffled in North London

All getting rather personal isn't it Lootman ? Are you really sure you want to take the discussion in this direction ?

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Re: Disengagement

#451294

Postby MDW1954 » October 19th, 2021, 2:20 pm

richfool wrote:... the lack of posts and discussions about investments, in particular Investment Trusts. And of the few posts about IT's, some even seem to get posted on HYP - Practical or company share boards.


As one of the moderators of HYP-P, I'm surprised to learn that. Are you sure that you're not getting confused, and that the posts in question in fact refer to REITs and infrastructure companies, which are quite permissible under the board's rules?

MDW1954

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Re: Disengagement

#451303

Postby scrumpyjack » October 19th, 2021, 2:38 pm

Lootman wrote:
simsqu wrote:I don't understand any of this.

I have never posted anything about investment, but then again I tend to keep most of my sporadic posts to Beerpig's Snug. Should I not post anymore?

Yours

Confused of North London

It was SalvorHardin who first introduced (on this topic anyway) the phenomenon of Lemons who never post on investment topics, but that was within the context of people who also behave obsessively on certain more emotive boards like PD/CAN. So the complaint does not apply to impeccable Lemons like yourself who do not post on investment topics but who otherwise amuse, inform and entertain others.

If I understand SH correctly he means people who post a lot on TLF, often to attack capitalism or success, as if their rationale for being here is to lecture those who do invest about the error of our ways. That does beg the question of why they are here, and strikes some of us as borderline trolling.

For my part I also said to SH: "And by the way I read the posts that were hidden from you, and both were Lemons from whom I have never seen any useful investment discussion. A characterisation that could never be attributed to you." So I was not citing zero investment posts but rather zero useful investment posts. My criterion is whether I learned anything useful from such posters. I do learn a lot from SH but not so much some from the usual suspects on CAN with their repetitive proselyting.

There are three Lemons in particular who love to top post any and every article in the Guardian that criticises either the Tories or Brexit. Given that they know for a fact that they have never changed a single Lemon's opinion on such topics, AND they never post usefully on investment topics, why on earth do they do it at all?

Baffled in North London


Quite so. I really don't mind who posts whatever on any topic as long as it is good humoured. Though it is reasonable to point out that Lemon Fool defines itself as 'The Lemon Fool - Shares, Investment and Personal Finance Discussion Forums', without being accused of trying to censor others.
Good to hear that the Guardian has at least 3 readers, though as expected they all seem to be in North London :D

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Re: Disengagement

#451307

Postby 88V8 » October 19th, 2021, 2:44 pm

SteMiS wrote:...that dried up 3 months ago (compared to 770 posts on Advfn). I'd be happy to post more on investment (after all I post extensively on Advfn and invest for a living) but frankly, apart from arguing about what is HYP or the seemingly never ending debate about Tesla, there really isn't much discussion or indeed interest in most individual shares.

True.
That space is occupied by the day-trading sites ADVFN and LSE, both of which have a head of steam that will never be matched here.

The former TMF had HYP as a unique feature, which has largely continued here.
The TMF oilies board was much stronger, and the banking board.
I don't know where the oilies went, but the bankers seem to have gone to Twitter, which is a pity.

As has been commented elsewhere, istm that there are too many boards here, relative to the number of members.
For example, I suggested in a deleted post that the Pharma board should be removed... after the last 18 months, surely it should have been abuzz, instead the last post was five months ago, and in five years it has managed just 13 topics.
With fewer boards there might be less bafflement about where to post, and more useful traffic on those that remain.

V8

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Re: Disengagement

#451309

Postby SteMiS » October 19th, 2021, 2:49 pm

XFool wrote:
scrumpyjack wrote:Good to hear that the Guardian has at least 3 readers, though as expected they all seem to be in North London :D

Is one of those three readers Lootman? Give us a clue. :lol:

Certainly isn't me, I'm up in Newcastle...


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