Smart meter not communicating

[csearle]

A tad off-topic I realise, and maybe enough to tip the DAK balance, but another reason for not opting for a "smart" meter is that your energy supplier can disconnect your residence from the grid at will.

I know this because I had a call-out (I'm an electrician) from a lady locally who had a power outage. Turned out there was a mix up with her customer account number and the bast***s simply cut her off. I was there an hour on a bank holiday on her phone trying to convey the message that her "smart" meter was the device interrupting her energy flow.

Eventually they conceded that an over-enthusiastic colleague had clicked a check-box and cut her off. Normal service was resumed an hour later.

C.

[didds]

A tad off-topic I realise, and maybe enough to tip the DAK balance, but another reason for not opting for a "smart" meter is that your energy supplier can disconnect your residence from the grid at will.

I know this because I had a call-out (I'm an electrician) from a lady locally who had a power outage. Turned out there was a mix up with her customer account number and the bast***s simply cut her off. I was there an hour on a bank holiday on her phone trying to convey the message that her "smart" meter was the device interrupting her energy flow.

Eventually they conceded that an over-enthusiastic colleague had clicked a check-box and cut her off. Normal service was resumed an hour later.

C.

which is exactly why i don't want one. Just seems totally open to such human error, involving painful processes to overturn the errors.

And it will happen to somebody, sometime (witness above). I've no interest in it being us.

[didds]

[

If it’s an out of date meter that’s the issue - it is no longer guaranteed to provide an accurate reading.

merely asking not doubting etc -

and a smart metre IS guaranteed to not make inaccurate readings? How long for if so?

If one had a smart metre installed that then showed the old meter WAS over reading - does that mean one could claim compensation/refunds for the incorrect readings? How far back in time could such a claim be made - we've been here since December 1998 for example on the same meter and weve had multiple suppliers in that time, some of which no longer exist.

[pje16]

which is exactly why i don't want one. Just seems totally open to such human error, involving painful processes to overturn the errors.

I'm steering well clear of them as well
I know how to switch a light off, I don't need a gadget to tell me.

[AF62]

[

If it’s an out of date meter that’s the issue - it is no longer guaranteed to provide an accurate reading.

merely asking not doubting etc -

and a smart metre IS guaranteed to not make inaccurate readings? How long for if so?

Yep, the same as dumb meters were, because that’s the rules under which they need to be manufactured and generally that is for 10 years now - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/electricity ... tification

Once past the certification period they can no longer be assumed to be reading correctly, hence the requirement to change but the issue being that the energy companies are now only installing smart meters (with a very few exceptions).

If one had a smart metre installed that then showed the old meter WAS over reading - does that mean one could claim compensation/refunds for the incorrect readings? How far back in time could such a claim be made - we've been here since December 1998 for example on the same meter and weve had multiple suppliers in that time, some of which no longer exist.

Simply having a smart meter installed wouldn’t be proof that the old dumb meter was incorrectly reading, but would only give an indication of that.

But if you don’t think your existing dumb meter is reading correctly you can ask for it to be tested, but you likely have to pay for it to be removed and replaced if it was found to be ok - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/electricity ... y-disputes

[AF62]

A tad off-topic I realise, and maybe enough to tip the DAK balance, but another reason for not opting for a "smart" meter is that your energy supplier can disconnect your residence from the grid at will.

I know this because I had a call-out (I'm an electrician) from a lady locally who had a power outage. Turned out there was a mix up with her customer account number and the bast***s simply cut her off. I was there an hour on a bank holiday on her phone trying to convey the message that her "smart" meter was the device interrupting her energy flow.

Eventually they conceded that an over-enthusiastic colleague had clicked a check-box and cut her off. Normal service was resumed an hour later.

C.

Although for balance there have been plenty of reports recently of firms getting warrants to forcefully enter homes to do the same thing, but the warrants have been issued to the wrong property. And as the warrants are being issued in bulk and just waived through by the courts, there is no ‘sense check’ on them.

So which is worse, being disconnected remotely in error or coming home to find your front door kicked in and having been disconnected in error.

[didds]

reminds me of the story Mrs Didds tells me of when she lived in a flat over a shop, in a row of shops in sarf lundun years ago.

disconnecting types turned up to a shop a couple of doors down to disconnect the gas for an unpaid bill. shop owner explained he wasn't on gas, there was no gas, there was no gas meter. Oh no says Mr disconnector, we have the warrant here and all the paperwork, you have gas and an unpaid bill and we have the right to disconnect you.

this discussion went on for a while, with the shop keeper increasingly laughing at each iteration of the discourse.

by this time a small crowd had formed, egged on by the shopkeeper to get more people to come and watch .

Eventually the disconnectors abandoned all chat, waved the warrant in the shopkeepers (SK) face and insisted on entry. The SK bad them enter with a huge grin and told them to do what they needed to do.

many minutes passed.

Eventually the gas disconnectors appeared somewhat ruffled and admitted there was no gas to the premises, and no gas meter. Like the SK had explained.

My how everybody laughed. Except for the disconnectors.

[didds]

[
Yep, the same as dumb meters were, because that’s the rules under which they need to be manufactured and generally that is for 10 years now - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/electricity ... tification

Once past the certification period they can no longer be assumed to be reading correctly, hence the requirement to change

except isn't it strange that nobody ever pushed for our dumb meter to be changed by 2008 (a decade since we moved in, and I suspect many more since the original meter was installed). although now of course the suppliers are under pressure form govt to fir smart meters. Whereas previously they weren't under pressure to replace dumb ones.

???

didds

[AF62]

[
Yep, the same as dumb meters were, because that’s the rules under which they need to be manufactured and generally that is for 10 years now - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/electricity ... tification

Once past the certification period they can no longer be assumed to be reading correctly, hence the requirement to change

except isn't it strange that nobody ever pushed for our dumb meter to be changed by 2008 (a decade since we moved in, and I suspect many more since the original meter was installed). although now of course the suppliers are under pressure form govt to fir smart meters. Whereas previously they weren't under pressure to replace dumb ones.

???

didds

Strange that energy companies were useless and failed to do what they should have done, and are only now getting better with increased regulation - not really.

[didds]

Strange that energy companies were useless and failed to do what they should have done, and are only now getting better with increased regulation - not really.

so they SHOULD have been pushing to replace them eg back in the 70s too? but didn't bother. And governments didnt bother either. So in fact nobody had any agenda to fill over replacing ten year old metres so nobody bothered.

Got it.

[AF62]

Strange that energy companies were useless and failed to do what they should have done, and are only now getting better with increased regulation - not really.

so they SHOULD have been pushing to replace them eg back in the 70s too? but didn't bother. And governments didnt bother either. So in fact nobody had any agenda to fill over replacing ten year old metres so nobody bothered.

Got it.

Of course they should, but back in the 1970s it was the nationalised regional electricity boards so they were even more useless.

And I have had meters replaced in the past when they reached the end of their life, the issue is that not everyone did because of the ‘couldn’t give a damn’ energy companies, but now as there is increased regulation forcing the energy companies to do what they always should have done then some see a conspiracy with smart meters.

[didds]

I think Im more amazed/intrigued that util literally this thread I had absolutely no idea meters had this 10 year shelf life in effect. Im 60 years old, have a background in science, particularly maths and physics (including degree level), and i didn't have a clue!

didds

[daveh]

I think Im more amazed/intrigued that util literally this thread I had absolutely no idea meters had this 10 year shelf life in effect. Im 60 years old, have a background in science, particularly maths and physics (including degree level), and i didn't have a clue!

didds

I knew they had a shelf life, and a few years after I moved in here SSE replaced my old dumb meter (the one with a rotating metal wheel) with a modern electronic dumb meter. Which failed after a few years (stopped recording any electricity use.) As soon as I noticed asked for a replacement. Was supposed to get a Smets 2 smart meter, but they were out of stock, I refused a Smets 1 meter (as I wouldn't have been able to switch supplier without replacing the meter) and had a replacement dumb meter fitted, presumably one recently removed when a smart meter was fitted at a previous job. That one failed after only a couple of years again not reading electricity usage properly. It under read by a factor of at least 4, I noticed as my recorded monthly usage dropped from 120-200 units per month to about 25 units/month. That one was replaced with a Smets 2 smart meter. Be interesting to see whether that one is replaced after 10 years.

[scrumpyjack]

We still have one with rotating metal discs dated 1989 and still going strong. I have long tried to resist having a smart meter but they've now condemned my meter as being past its certification expiry. Annoying as it goes backwards on the rare occasions the solar panels produce more electricity than we are consuming. Maybe if I move supplier I will be able to hang on to it for a while longer?

[pje16]

We still have one with rotating metal discs dated 1989 and still going strong. I have long tried to resist having a smart meter but they've now condemned my meter as being past its certification expiry. Annoying as it goes backwards on the rare occasions the solar panels produce more electricity than we are consuming. Maybe if I move supplier I will be able to hang on to it for a while longer?

Last week, Shell told me my meter was "very old", would I like a smart meter, I said "no"
they offered to replace it with a non-smart one, but as the current one works, neither of us could see the point of doing that.

[genou]

I refused a Smets 1 meter (as I wouldn't have been able to switch supplier without replacing the meter)

That doesn't match my experience. I've changed suppliers multiple times with a Smets 1 meter. The meter just goes dumb. Don't know if it would wake up again if reattached to the supplier who installed it, as I've never done that.

[didds]

Last week, Shell told me my meter was "very old", would I like a smart meter, I said "no"
they offered to replace it with a non-smart one, but as the current one works, neither of us could see the point of doing that.

Interesting. I got an email from Shell about our meter being old a couple of weeks ago, and i should call to book a replacement smart meter.

i dont want a smart meter.

So I ignored the email.

The email provided a number to call to arrange an installation. PJE16 ... did you call that number to decline the smart meter? how/when did you get offered a replacement dumb meter ?

didds

[pje16]

Last week, Shell told me my meter was "very old", would I like a smart meter, I said "no"
they offered to replace it with a non-smart one, but as the current one works, neither of us could see the point of doing that.

Interesting. I got an email from Shell about our meter being old a couple of weeks ago, and i should call to book a replacement smart meter.

i dont want a smart meter.

So I ignored the email.

The email provided a number to call to arrange an installation. PJE16 ... did you call that number to decline the smart meter? how/when did you get offered a replacement dumb meter ?

didds

they kept estimating my gas bill for several months (In their favour of course) even thought I gave them a reading at the end of every month
having lied to me twice on the phone saying it has been fixed, they then asked me to send in a photo showing the reading and serial number of the meter
"not that we don't believe you" she said
WHY ELSE would they need a photo
anyway I sent one in and that show they knew it's an old meter
This weekend I did a reading and submitted it Friday, as they asked me to, and today, 2 days later it now shows the right number on their website
It has been wrong since last May
It was during the phone call after I had sent them the picture, they offered me smart meter

[bungeejumper]

they kept estimating my gas bill for several months (In their favour of course) even thought I gave them a reading at the end of every month
having lied to me twice on the phone saying it has been fixed, they then asked me to send in a photo showing the reading and serial number of the meter
"not that we don't believe you" she said
WHY ELSE would they need a photo

In fairness, it's pretty common these days for suppliers to require a photo of the meter when accounts are being switched, or when readings are being updated after something has gone wrong, even though it's usually the power company's own fault. For all I know, the power co might perhaps be obliged to lodge that photo record with the regulator, as evidence that it isn't playing fast and loose with the truth about how much it's charging you?

Apologies, I know I said that I was leaving this thread, over a disagreement with another poster about how fair and/or competent the energy suppliers are, but the following has happened in the last five days, and I thought it was rather telling.

The brand new SMETS 2 meter that Bulb installed in our rental flat two years ago has just gone dead. Nothing is reading on the display, although mercifully it's still delivering power. We sent Bulb a photo, as they requested. "No problem," they said, "it's probably just that the meter needs a new battery. We'll get Siemens to come out and replace the battery."

So last Friday the Siemens engineer drove the 80 miles up from Bournemouth and looked at our meter. "That meter doesn't have a battery," he said. "I'll have to replace it." [The meter.]

Haven't Bulb even sent you the bloody photo of the meter, so that you at least knew which model it was, we wanted to ask? But politeness got the better of us.

"Great," we said brightly. "Can you do the replacement now?"

"No," he said, "I haven't got the spare one in the van." And with a cheery wave and a goodbye, he got back in and drove back home to Bournemouth.

Joined up thinking? Not in this industry. Who's paying for it? Do we even need to ask?

BJ

[pje16]

they kept estimating my gas bill for several months (In their favour of course) even thought I gave them a reading at the end of every month
having lied to me twice on the phone saying it has been fixed, they then asked me to send in a photo showing the reading and serial number of the meter
"not that we don't believe you" she said
WHY ELSE would they need a photo

In fairness, it's pretty common these days for suppliers to require a photo of the meter when accounts are being switched, or when readings are being updated after something has gone wrong, even though it's usually the power company's own fault. For all I know, the power co might perhaps be obliged to lodge that photo record with the regulator, as evidence that it isn't playing fast and loose with the truth about how much it's charging you?

I have never been asked for one before
I think they didn't believe my reading was so low (approx 50 units below their estimate)