Tan's for the memories

[Clitheroekid]

It seems that Irish women should abandon their beloved fake tan, as it's deemed to be cultural appropriation - https://archive.is/oWcVH

I guess they'll just have to settle for being pale and interesting!

Yes, I know it's a fake article written by ChatGPT, I just wondered if anyone would spot it as such.

[Itsallaguess]

‎
<cough>
https://www.irishcentral.com/news/irish ... article-ai
</cough>

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[mc2fool]

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2023/05/11/irish-womens-obsession-with-fake-tan-is-problematic/

The text of this article has been removed

[stevensfo]

It seems that Irish women should abandon their beloved fake tan, as it's deemed to be cultural appropriation - https://archive.is/oWcVH

I guess they'll just have to settle for being pale and interesting!

Yes, I know it's a fake article written by ChatGPT, I just wondered if anyone would spot it as such.

To me, fake tan represents more than just an innocuous cosmetic choice; it raises questions of cultural appropriation and fetishisation of the high melanin content found in more pigmented people.

I wonder if the author is writing tongue in cheek, or is really serious.

The term 'cultural appropriation' is great. It can mean just about anything you want.

Can we assume that Michael Jackson's music is now 'cancelled' for similar reasons?

Steve

[Lootman]

It seems that Irish women should abandon their beloved fake tan, as it's deemed to be cultural appropriation - https://archive.is/oWcVH

I guess they'll just have to settle for being pale and interesting!
Yes, I know it's a fake article written by ChatGPT, I just wondered if anyone would spot it as such.

To me, fake tan represents more than just an innocuous cosmetic choice; it raises questions of cultural appropriation and fetishisation of the high melanin content found in more pigmented people.

I wonder if the author is writing tongue in cheek, or is really serious.

I took the article as a sarcastic dig at the kind of people who find offence everywhere, whether it exists or not, as some kind of virtue signaling. A satire on political correctness and wokeness, if you will.

This is reinforced by the revelation that the piece was probably fake, and not written by a Hispanic woman.

And for completeness there is a dig at the pale Irish who probably do overdo fake tan, although that seems fairly prevalent in the UK as well.

[bungeejumper]

Interesting that a woman with fake blue hair is upset by other people wearing fake tanned skin. No apparent awareness that she's culturally appropriating the hue of the African blue monkey. Or, for that matter, a mandrill's bottom.

BJ

[Lootman]

Interesting that a woman with fake blue hair is upset by other people wearing fake tanned skin. No apparent awareness that she's culturally appropriating the hue of the African blue monkey. Or, for that matter, a mandrill's bottom.

BJ

Regardless of whether the piece is fake or not, it was quite clever in at least two regards.

Firstly it all seemed entirely plausible and credible, both that the Irish might use a lot of fake tan AND that somewhere someone would decide to be offended by that.

Secondly that it was an equal-opportunity hit-piece, as it pretty much ridiculed everyone.

Might Wilde have been proud of the whimsy? Or was it more a piece of Swiftian satire?

[bungeejumper]

OK, it's a hoax: https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41139025.html

And the apology is worth a read:

The article suggested that Irish women's widespread use of false tanning products was cultural appropriation and thus offensive to people of colour. Minority activists in Ireland and elsewhere have previously made this argument.

....

Within 24 hours of publication, social media users were querying the authenticity of the author, suggesting the byline picture of a blue-haired Latin American woman had been created by artificial intelligence. 'Blue hair' is a pejorative term used by far-right actors to describe "aggressive, unpleasant" feminists.

...

In a message to readers on the newspaper's website on Sunday, Irish Times editor Ruadhán Mac Cormaic said the article was "a hoax; the person we were corresponding with was not who they claimed to be. We had fallen victim to a deliberate and co-ordinated deception".

Hope that settles it.

BJ

[mc2fool]

I think it was settled from the first reply.

Nevertheless, while I know they also exist here, I am always somewhat amused/bemused when I visit the Indian sub-continent by the ubiquity of billboards and pharmacy store fronts that advertise skin whitening creams. It seems they want to be whiter and we want to be browner*. Maybe there's a "perfect" colour in the middle ... (hypothetical question!)

9 Best Skin Lightening Creams That Actually Work In 2023
Here, you will find the nine best skin whitening creams that have been recommended by users and offer great results.
:
In a recent study, nearly 74% of undergraduate women have confessed to using fairness creams or skin-lightening creams.
https://www.outlookindia.com/outlook-spotlight/9-best-skin-lightening-creams-that-actually-work-in-2023-news-276882

* But it's not always been so ... in Victorian times women here used to apply arsenic and a variety of other noxious substances to their faces in order to appear as pale as possible! ('Twas Coco Chanel in the 1920s that popularised the idea of a suntan.)
https://mollybrown.org/beauty-is-in-the-eye-of-the-beholder-how-victorians-used-common-poisons-to-become-drop-dead-gorgeous/

[stevensfo]

OK, it's a hoax: https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41139025.html

And the apology is worth a read:

The article suggested that Irish women's widespread use of false tanning products was cultural appropriation and thus offensive to people of colour. Minority activists in Ireland and elsewhere have previously made this argument.

....

Within 24 hours of publication, social media users were querying the authenticity of the author, suggesting the byline picture of a blue-haired Latin American woman had been created by artificial intelligence. 'Blue hair' is a pejorative term used by far-right actors to describe "aggressive, unpleasant" feminists.

...

In a message to readers on the newspaper's website on Sunday, Irish Times editor Ruadhán Mac Cormaic said the article was "a hoax; the person we were corresponding with was not who they claimed to be. We had fallen victim to a deliberate and co-ordinated deception".

Hope that settles it.

BJ

'Blue hair' is a pejorative term used by far-right actors to describe "aggressive, unpleasant" feminists.

How can one possibly keep up with all these new ideas, what's acceptable, what isn't, what's offensive, what's non-PC etc?

Maybe I'm confusing it with 'Blue-rinse'? Isn't that an elderly woman who is desperate to attract attention?

Steve

PS You realise that the pyramid structure on top of the Louvre is 'cultural appropriation'.

Shall I tell them, or will you?

[servodude]

OK, it's a hoax: https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41139025.html

And the apology is worth a read:


Hope that settles it.

BJ

'Blue hair' is a pejorative term used by far-right actors to describe "aggressive, unpleasant" feminists.

How can one possibly keep up with all these new ideas, what's acceptable, what isn't, what's offensive, what's non-PC etc?

Maybe I'm confusing it with 'Blue-rinse'? Isn't that an elderly woman who is desperate to attract attention?

Steve

PS You realise that the pyramid structure on top of the Louvre is 'cultural appropriation'.

Shall I tell them, or will you?

I believe the traditional blue-rinse is normally used in the hair to neutralise brassy tones in grey/white hair (caused by iron in the water oxidising - yup it's rust)
Seems tricky to pick up a "permanent" blue these days Schwarzkopf used to do one - now just the semi

- sd

[Clitheroekid]

I don't know about fake tan, but my concealer appears to have worked perfectly, as I'd included in my original post the following in `invisible ink':

Yes, I know it's a fake article written by ChatGPT, I just wondered if anyone would spot it as such.

All good fun

[DiamondEcho]

Nevertheless, while I know they also exist here, I am always somewhat amused/bemused when I visit the Indian sub-continent by the ubiquity of billboards and pharmacy store fronts that advertise skin whitening creams. It seems they want to be whiter and we want to be browner*. Maybe there's a "perfect" colour in the middle ... (hypothetical question!)
...
* But it's not always been so ... in Victorian times women here used to apply arsenic and a variety of other noxious substances to their faces in order to appear as pale as possible! ('Twas Coco Chanel in the 1920s that popularised the idea of a suntan.)
https://mollybrown.org/beauty-is-in-the-eye-of-the-beholder-how-victorians-used-common-poisons-to-become-drop-dead-gorgeous/

And there is cross-over. I've lived in Asia and seen all these 'magical claims' over alleged skin-lightening products. Just see an ad for any Japanese facial beauty product. Frankly it's all pretty depressing people paying to be what they are not, but there we are. In Asia it's about ''''low-caste genes''' wanting to appear a rung or two higher.

In Vicorian England, skin whitening was perhaps a direct parallel. Wanting to appear like you didn't do manual work out in the fields, but sat in the drawing room all day drinking tea = no sun-tan for me!

Modern Europe = 'I've a tan, therefore I can afford to travel to hot climes, therefore I'm sucessful and want you to know it'. ---- Increasingly in modern Europe/'The West' however a tan that is too deep is considered foolish, self-damage and hence something for the uneducated '''lower classes'''.

p.s. We've a bottle of talc bought in and back from Asia, sub-branded 'Whitening powder'. I assume it's just regular talc but such is the power of the myth.

[Watis]

So, I - or anyone - would be guilty of cultural appropriation if I wear clothing from another culture, or style my hair in a way that another culture does.

Like most of us I enjoy a curry - but I'm not Indian. Likewise pizza - but I'm not Italian.

Why, then, is food exempt from claims of cultural appropriation - and for how long?

Watis

[Lootman]

So, I - or anyone - would be guilty of cultural appropriation if I wear clothing from another culture, or style my hair in a way that another culture does.

Like most of us I enjoy a curry - but I'm not Indian. Likewise pizza - but I'm not Italian.

Why, then, is food exempt from claims of cultural appropriation - and for how long?

I think it is a near guarantee that someone somewhere will claim any transfer of culture across a border involves a degree of cultural appropriation. I have certainly seen it with white people adopting afro hair styles:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ropriation

Although oddly when the 100% white Rachel Dolezal represented herself as black to the point of becoming a President of the US NAACP before being outed, she seemed to get a pass. Funny that.

[terminal7]

Although oddly when the 100% white Rachel Dolezal represented herself as black to the point of becoming a President of the US NAACP before being outed, she seemed to get a pass. Funny that.

Whoa there Lootperson - it appears she was deeply disturbed on several levels and her life descended into petty criminality. Her Presidency only lasted a short time and despite initial support from the NAACP she quickly 'resigned' and was cut adrift from other organisations.

T7

[Lootman]

Although oddly when the 100% white Rachel Dolezal represented herself as black to the point of becoming a President of the US NAACP before being outed, she seemed to get a pass. Funny that.

Whoa there Lootperson - it appears she was deeply disturbed on several levels and her life descended into petty criminality. Her Presidency only lasted a short time and despite initial support from the NAACP she quickly 'resigned' and was cut adrift from other organisations.

What I meant was, at least as I recall thinking at the time, that the stick she got was all from white people complaining that she "wasn't really black". The non-whites didn't seem to mind much. Perhaps they thought that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

But yes, I never said she was sane. Not sure that anyone completely faking their race can be deemed as sane.

[UncleEbenezer]

So, I - or anyone - would be guilty of cultural appropriation if I wear clothing from another culture, or style my hair in a way that another culture does.

Like most of us I enjoy a curry - but I'm not Indian. Likewise pizza - but I'm not Italian.

Why, then, is food exempt from claims of cultural appropriation - and for how long?

Watis

I enjoy opera, whose Italian origins are deeper than pizza. The latter may have Neapolitan early roots, but has been much more American for most of its life.

I happen to think having an open mind to other cultures is a Good Thing. And that a corollary to being open-minded is that we'll be influenced by them, and adopt ideas from them. As a rule we'll anglicise those ideas: thus the thick American-style pizza common in Blighty is rather different to the thin pizza an Italian would recognise.

Claims of "cultural appropriation" are assertions of "us and them" tribal identity. There's a Virtue-Signallers tribe, with platforms in the mainstream media, who give us phrases like "cultural appropriation" and then, erm, culturally appropriate ideas to their own tribal cause of manufacturing guilt.

Many years ago a madwoman told me it was inappropriate that I should sing in Handel's Messiah, because I'm not a Christian. The answer to that is of course that good music (indeed, good anything) is universal, no matter what its tribal roots may be (and some music has very strong tribal roots - particularly in the bitter divide between Catholic and Lutheran tribes). Today a transient tribal identity is asserted whenever a new generation finds a way to shock or baffle its parents (or "The Establishment").

[bungeejumper]

Many years ago a madwoman told me it was inappropriate that I should sing in Handel's Messiah, because I'm not a Christian.

Oh, you've met my ex, then?

The answer to that is of course that good music (indeed, good anything) is universal, no matter what its tribal roots may be (and some music has very strong tribal roots - particularly in the bitter divide between Catholic and Lutheran tribes). Today a transient tribal identity is asserted whenever a new generation finds a way to shock or baffle its parents (or "The Establishment").

By some people's standards, white people have no business playing the blues, or jazz for that matter. Particularly Englishmen, who weren't even on the right continent when those music forms were developed .

Which would have been a pity, since it was the white British bands of the sixties who basically rescued the blues after two decades in which it had been semi-dormant and largely ignored by most Americans. It would also be culturally illiterate of us not to note that it had been the American Jewish music publishers of the forties and fifties who made sure that the blues got recorded in the first place. But then, the Jews knew a lot about how it felt to be vilified, discriminated against and murdered. Empathy goes a long way in these circumstances.

BJ

[CliffEdge]

I'm Devonian. Fortunately, the Cornish have little cultural influence on us, or anyone really (bit like the Welsh). How ghastly it would be if they did.

There is a limit to how far west one should go, culturally - or east obviously. Not that we're smug here in Devon, though of course we do set standards that others can only dream of.