elec meters

[Kantwebefriends]

Moderator Message:
Moved from DAK to the pub, leaving a link, because this has become an ongoing discussion. - Chris

(i) My electricity supplier is hounding me to replace my meter - it's old, potentially a safety hazard, regulations require it, etc, etc.
They wish to replace it with a smart meter.

(ii) My electrician says don't don't don't get a smart meter.

Questions:

(a) Is it true that regulations can require replacement of the meter? If so, how do I check that mine is old enough to need replacement?

(b) If I do get it replaced am I really required to accept a smart meter? Can I insist on a conventional meter?

[servodude]

(i) My electricity supplier is hounding me to replace my meter - it's old, potentially a safety hazard, regulations require it, etc, etc.
They wish to replace it with a smart meter.

(ii) My electrician says don't don't don't get a smart meter.

Questions:

(a) Is it true that regulations can require replacement of the meter? If so, how do I check that mine is old enough to need replacement?

(b) If I do get it replaced am I really required to accept a smart meter? Can I insist on a conventional meter?

You could get a better electrician?

[staffordian]

As I understand it, meters are certified for a specific number of years, which varies by make and model. A while ago, I saw an online table listing the period for every meter, but I can't now locate it. The period is typically 10-20 years, and meters generally have a manufactured date on them.

Once this certification period expires, the energy supplier has no legal right to bill the consumer because of possible inaccuracies creeping in, so in these circumstances they are legally entitled (obliged?) to install a new meter . And they are unlikely to have a dumb meter to install...

Edit: This link appears to be the list of meter certification periods...

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... y_2022.pdf

[Nocton]

I definitely recommend a smart meter. I suggest everyone will have to have a smart meter in a few years time. Indeed our water meter is being switched to a smart meter by Anglian Water. And most companies now will not give you the best tariff without, as they save money on not employing meter readers.
You can see what you are using at any time and your bill will always be accurate with no estimates. I can't see why an electrician would suggest not.

[bungeejumper]

Not the first time that this has been discussed on this board. I am currently in a state of polite stand-off with Octopus, who have admitted that their smart meters won't work in my area at all, but who are still insisting that they've got to give me a smart one, because they're not allowed to replace my traditional-style meter with another of the same type. I mean, where are we supposed to go with that sort of situation?

As I understand it, the communications issue applies mostly to the southern half of the UK, where the system relies on a 3G mobile signal. (Which we haven't got here. And which is set to be phased out anyway!) More northerly households use the more capable DCC network, which will be coming to the south when they can be @rsed to provide it; until that day, however, elec companies are being driven hard by the regulators to install replacement meters that they know won't work. I ask you......

For some houses in non-reception areas, they can apparently wangle a work-around by creating a local mesh of houses that do have a signal. But that doesn't work here. (They've tried at a neighbour's house.) Harrumph.

And then there's the size of the damn thing. Apparently they require a wall area the size of an A4 sheet of paper (including blank space around it). And that won't fit in my meter cupboard unless somebody repositions all the various fuses and sub-switches on the board, and who's going to pay for all that? Can't say I'm keen, since it's the providers who are changing the rules, not me. Harrumph again.

Octopus have apologised for the fact that they're continuing to pester me, and they've been pretty good about saying that they're happy to wait. For the time being, we're rubbing along pleasantly enough while we wait for them to get the DCC system working properly.

BJ

[didds]

You could get a better electrician?

Or then again, maybe the electrician is right - after all, (s)he has actually SEEN the meter. Rather than a disembodied email service that is working off a list of clients that do not have one.

[didds]

... in these circumstances they are legally entitled (obliged?) to install a new meter .

Could somebody link to that law please?

[didds]

And most companies now will not give you the best tariff without, as they save money on not employing meter readers.

well, WADR we have a non-smart meter, have lived here for 25 years, and haven't seen a meter reader for over 20 of those. So that argument - respectfully - just doesn't stack up. There is no meter reader to save money on. I provide all our meter readings via an app.

[staffordian]

... in these circumstances they are legally entitled (obliged?) to install a new meter .

Could somebody link to that law please?

This gov link sort of covers it...

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/electricity ... 20accuracy.

[didds]

Could somebody link to that law please?

This gov link sort of covers it...

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/electricity ... 20accuracy.

cheers for that.

So it could be a dumb meter. I refuse to belvee there is not a pile of about 20 million of them sitting in a warehouse somewhere. YMMV.

cheers

didds

[scrumpyjack]

Been there, done it. My meter is dated 1989 and my supplier kept hounding me to have a smart meter. I refused. They then said its certification had expired and it must be replaced. I then changed electricity supplier and so far they have not tried to force me to replace it

They can't force you to have a smart meter. You can insist it is replaced with a dumb one! Just say you have bees or something and they are incompatible with smart meters.

So every time your supplier insists you have a smart meter, just switch supplier!

[servodude]

You could get a better electrician?

Or then again, maybe the electrician is right - after all, (s)he has actually SEEN the meter. Rather than a disembodied email service that is working off a list of clients that do not have one.

Nah.
Any electrician who says "don't don't don't get a smart meter" as a matter of course rather than something practical and useful should hand back their ticket.
Pointing out the shortcomings of whatever model, or mechanism, based on an understanding of the location and the technology would have been an alternative that wouldn't have them come across as a mumpsimus
But a blanket "don't"?;they're either not very clued up (which is not something I'd want in a sparkly) or likey suffering from "my mate down the pub says"-itis

[didds]

perhaps "dont dont dont" was a paraphrase ?

[servodude]

perhaps "dont dont dont" was a paraphrase ?

Yeah it possibly was - or the meter in question is in Dibley?

Even if were paraphrased it commucates that the idea left with the OP by the electrician merits epizeuxis?
Which seems like a worrying suggestion coming from a sparky as the idea that there is something intrinsically wrong with smart meters across the board is Neil Oliver territory

- but we might be wandering off topic

[Mike4]

Or then again, maybe the electrician is right - after all, (s)he has actually SEEN the meter. Rather than a disembodied email service that is working off a list of clients that do not have one.

Nah.
Any electrician who says "don't don't don't get a smart meter" as a matter of course rather than something practical and useful should hand back their ticket.
Pointing out the shortcomings of whatever model, or mechanism, based on an understanding of the location and the technology would have been an alternative that wouldn't have them come across as a mumpsimus
But a blanket "don't"?;they're either not very clued up (which is not something I'd want in a sparkly) or likey suffering from "my mate down the pub says"-itis

You don't have any concerns about the 'privacy' aspects then?

Or like being de-banked, one could get de-powered just as easily with a few mouse clicks?

Presumably you've not seen that (now withdrawn) advert by the people who write the software for smart meters, boasting about how much they can surmise about you, your appliances and your usage habits from your smart meter data. I saw the link on here a few weeks ago. Will try to find it again...

Edit to add:
Here ya go!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIkT5Gm ... gpitcher11

[Dod101]

Why on earth would anyone not get a smart meter? O K so they can tell that you are still up at midnight, probably boiling a kettle for tea or is that for a hot water bottle? So what?

I could not care less. The supplier gets a clear view of my electricity usage. Good. They can ( and do) adjust my monthly charge downwards when I am using less than predicted. No need for me to go outside, open the door and peer in to get a meter reading to send to the supplier. In any case in a few year’s time you will have that as the default so why on earth not embrace it now?

Dod

[servodude]

Nah.
Any electrician who says "don't don't don't get a smart meter" as a matter of course rather than something practical and useful should hand back their ticket.
Pointing out the shortcomings of whatever model, or mechanism, based on an understanding of the location and the technology would have been an alternative that wouldn't have them come across as a mumpsimus
But a blanket "don't"?;they're either not very clued up (which is not something I'd want in a sparkly) or likey suffering from "my mate down the pub says"-itis

You don't have any concerns about the 'privacy' aspects then?

Or like being de-banked, one could get de-powered just as easily with a few mouse clicks?

Presumably you've not seen that (now withdrawn) advert by the people who write the software for smart meters, boasting about how much they can surmise about you, your appliances and your usage habits from your smart meter data. I saw the link on here a few weeks ago. Will try to find it again...

Edit to add:
Here ya go!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIkT5Gm ... gpitcher11

We're at risk of going off topic here aren't we? But I'll try and give my tuppenceworth, if it gets pulled then fair enough.

I don't have a problem with data being captured, stored and used appropriately and I would argue for effective regulations to that effect rather than avoid engaging

How does that look to me?
Well...
I expect my doctor to have my records and any doctor i subsequently use to be able to get their hands on them (which is currently proving difficult trying to get records from Lothian health boad).
I keep my money in banks not under the bed; I do not exclusively use cash. I find it useful to be able to see what transactions are made, and where, but I do not think that information should be shared with everyone
I use a smartphone - it can be located by a multinational company in a couple of seconds (and that's proven useful to me more than a few times as I forget where I've left the sodding thing)
I am on a couple of electoral registers (though about to fall off one); voting is more important than someone reading my name on a list.
If my water meter had been smart it would have picked up a bad leak I had before it damaged stuff and hurt my wallet (even after the abeyance afforded to a "first offence")
I like the electricity grid to have sufficient capacity at peak points that it doesn't fall over, or catch fire
I like problems in the sewerage system to be fixed before I realise they are there

Basically data that "gives away" personal information is everywhere (from MAC sniffing public transport to CCTV cameras to loyalty cards)
I can live with that, and I'll take the convenience, relying on my rights to protect me from overreach (who'd have thought Farage would end up a cause célèbre validating the GDPR?)... but I would probaby feel quite differently if I lived under an authoritarian regime

[servodude]

Why on earth would anyone not get a smart meter? O K so they can tell that you are still up at midnight, probably boiling a kettle for tea or is that for a hot water bottle? So what?

I could not care less. The supplier gets a clear view of my electricity usage. Good. They can ( and do) adjust my monthly charge downwards when I am using less than predicted. No need for me to go outside, open the door and peer in to get a meter reading to send to the supplier. In any case in a few year’s time you will have that as the default so why on earth not embrace it now?

Dod

I think I've noticed an increase in paranoid tendencies (...hmm that could be a punk band doing radiohead covers?)
Probably down to the fact that there is no regulation (self or otherwise) on the nonsense that gets promulgated on the internet (or new media in general)

When a POTUS can bigly claim anything they want, without any real reprisal, it doesn't surprise me that normal folk start believing Bill Gates is causing planes to fly in to grain silos and putting chips in vaccines to control people via 5G - or that your electricity usage can mark you as a target

Everything becomes part of a big conspiracy and can't be debunked because "there is no conspiracy" is what "they" would say if there was one.

I think these tendencies have always been there - and always milked when politically expedient (e.g. "the protocols of the elders of zion")
but the Covid stuff seems to have brought them to the surface with a force

[Nocton]

And most companies now will not give you the best tariff without, as they save money on not employing meter readers.

well, WADR we have a non-smart meter, have lived here for 25 years, and haven't seen a meter reader for over 20 of those. So that argument - respectfully - just doesn't stack up. There is no meter reader to save money on. I provide all our meter readings via an app.

Well, I don't know what co. supplies you, but we have been with three cos. over the last 10 years and not one would accept our own readings indefinitely - they always sent a meter reader round occasionally to check. You may not have seen a meter reader, but can you be certain that one has not been? And why should they trust you, if you won't trust them? In any case, why have the extra faff?, when it can all be done automatically and you can see at any time how much electricity you are using now today, this month or this year?

[mutantpoodle]

well some advice please.

my elec meter is at least 33 years old...it was here when we moved in..and is under the stairs...arent they all?

.just a mass of wires and connections covering an area about 3ft square
alongside the fuses...nice large fuses brown bakerlite type things, which you pull out and insert a proper fuse when one blows

If I select a smart meter will all that be sorted or will installers step back in horror and leave me disconnected until huge extra costs are met

Ocopus tell me to order a smart meter and installers will advice....but then its too late??