The Lemon Fool

Howard wrote:It cost £744 to install our 7kWh charger.

Love the way these are being called "chargers" to bamboozle the consumer and justify the cost.

Off topic, but in respect of all the arguments and claims made by users of BEVs in general, their 'enjoyment' would seem to come from being subsidised by other taxpayers, by not paying a fair share of taxes themselves, or a combination of the two. Without touching on energy (in)efficiencies, a good proportion of the energy consumed by BEVs (or BEV users) still comes from hydrocarbons in this country. As far as the true long-term cost of a BEV is concerned, I believe the jury is still out on that one.

I see that some of the domestic electricity suppliers are getting in on this too, offering consumers lower cost electricity for vehicle charging. Perhaps that's special electricity that grows on trees.

BobGe wrote:I see that some of the domestic electricity suppliers are getting in on this too, offering consumers lower cost electricity for vehicle charging. Perhaps that's special electricity that grows on trees.

Yup - the same trees that they've been offering energy from for Economy 7 customers for the last 45 years.

DrFfybes wrote:Yup - the same trees that they've been offering energy from for Economy 7 customers for the last 45 years.

Seems they've planted more of them, 'cos it's even cheaper...

BobGe wrote:

Howard wrote:It cost £744 to install our 7kWh charger.

Love the way these are being called "chargers" to bamboozle the consumer and justify the cost.

Off topic, but in respect of all the arguments and claims made by users of BEVs in general, their 'enjoyment' would seem to come from being subsidised by other taxpayers, by not paying a fair share of taxes themselves, or a combination of the two. Without touching on energy (in)efficiencies, a good proportion of the energy consumed by BEVs (or BEV users) still comes from hydrocarbons in this country. As far as the true long-term cost of a BEV is concerned, I believe the jury is still out on that one.

I see that some of the domestic electricity suppliers are getting in on this too, offering consumers lower cost electricity for vehicle charging. Perhaps that's special electricity that grows on trees.

I'm not sure your criticism is fair. We private BEV owners pay our way, you are not subsidising our electricity use nor our cars apart from their lower road tax. The reason for the cheaper electricity we use to charge our cars between 12.30 am and 4.00am is that it is helping the generators balance out the load.

I'm not aware that there are major subsidies for chargers these days.

Reducing air pollution especially in cities is a laudable aim surely?

I agree that there are major tax benefits for company car owners who choose a BEV.

Do you feel guilty avoiding tax if you have ISAs or a SIPP?

The government we elect nudge us to behave in a certain way.

regards

Howard

BobGe wrote:

DrFfybes wrote:Yup - the same trees that they've been offering energy from for Economy 7 customers for the last 45 years.

Seems they've planted more of them, 'cos it's even cheaper...

Carbon offsetting at its best.

ISTR in the dim distant past the price of every new BEV being subsidised to the tune of £3k by the taxpayer. Has that all stopped now?

Or is my memory playing me up again?

Mike4 wrote:ISTR in the dim distant past the price of every new BEV being subsidised to the tune of £3k by the taxpayer. Has that all stopped now?

Or is my memory playing me up again?

Google is your friend. I typed in "are bevs subsidised by the government".

And this came up. Subsidies stopped in 2022 apparently.

https://www.electrive.com/2022/06/14/th ... tric-cars/

regards

Howard

DrFfybes wrote:Carbon offsetting at its best.

Ah yes, all those wood pellets consumed by Drax.

Economy 7 was usually 'offset' by higher standing charges and higher daytime unit charges. I'm wondering if that applies in the case of a BEV tariff?

Howard wrote:I'm not sure your criticism is fair. We private BEV owners pay our way, you are not subsidising our electricity use nor our cars apart from their lower road tax.

We are way off topic here, but as you responded...

How much 'tax' is paid on electricity used for BEV charging compared to the tax on other road fuels?
(Maybe think of windpower subsidies and Oil Co. taxes too?)
Generally the cost of vehicle tax (RFL) was referenced to vehicle weight, so BEV rates might be expected to be slightly higher (than a similar ICE vehicle) as they weigh more hence probably result in more road wear. I'll ignore the issue of torque as not everyone has a heavy right foot.
There is a cost to charging points and infrastructure - I'm not sure how many are private or if the cost is (to be) recovered from the users by way of higher unit rates. But clearly some are subsidised, at least initially.

Howard wrote:Reducing air pollution especially in cities is a laudable aim surely?

Suppose one thinks of it as a tax on those who can't afford a BEV or need an ICE for other reasons and would only journey into cities on rare occasions. Then think of all the different rules applying to different cities. Then there's the issue of charging zones and traffic diversions. All a bit of a headache presented to others. The air polution is just moved elsewhere. Scrappage can't be without cost.

Howard wrote:Do you feel guilty avoiding tax if you have ISAs or a SIPP?

Can't see your point sorry, can't anyone of driving age have an ISA or SIPP?

Howard wrote:The government we elect nudge us to behave in a certain way.

The government pander to those whom they think will support their re-election and behave in ways that they think will make them look good.