Price of drink!

[kiloran]

Give me a nice pint of crisp, cool, clean, refreshing San Miguel, or Amstel, or Estrella any day, or ideally, a Campari & Orange

You should try a pint of brown ale shandy, or Guinness shandy if no brown ale.

V8

Guinness shandy??!!
Heresy. Stone him
You're probably the sort that puts ginger ale (or worse) in a single malt!

--kiloran

[the0ni0nking]

Cruzcampo yesterday was actually 3 Euros for 500ml at a hotel in Murcia province (I hesitated to add that given debates on other threads).

Today I’ve arrived in Mojácar where I’ve just had a pint of Alhambra and that was 3.50 in advance of moving to a restaurant for NYE where I suspect everything will be more expensive!

[servodude]

You should try a pint of brown ale shandy, or Guinness shandy if no brown ale.

V8

Guinness shandy??!!
Heresy. Stone him
You're probably the sort that puts ginger ale (or worse) in a single malt!

--kiloran

Some single malts deserve that!

[leojones]

Presumably they have a different legal status to a "Public House" which may not be demolished without Planning Permission; possibly they are the same thing as a Beer House in the eyes of the law and the local council planning dept.

A quick web search shows that as I suspected, "Public house" is not a legal term.

As I understand it Ale houses were private homes where you could drop in and buy ale. Public houses started the same way. Inns provided accommodation as well as food and drink.

By the way, if you can find a copy can I recommend the book "An Inebriated history of Britain", I think reprinted as "Beer and Britannia".
Well worth a read for those who drink things other than Babycham.

Ps, I have been known, upon occasion, to drink San Miguel, but I do prefer something a bit more robust normally.

You're correct in noting the historical evolution of ale houses and public houses. The distinctions between these establishments have evolved over time, reflecting changes in societal norms and regulations. Additionally, thank you for the book recommendation; "Beer and Britannia" sounds intriguing, especially for those interested in the cultural and historical aspects of beverages in Britain. Enjoy your preferred drink choices, including San Miguel!

[Dod101]

A quick web search shows that as I suspected, "Public house" is not a legal term.

As I understand it Ale houses were private homes where you could drop in and buy ale. Public houses started the same way. Inns provided accommodation as well as food and drink.

By the way, if you can find a copy can I recommend the book "An Inebriated history of Britain", I think reprinted as "Beer and Britannia".
Well worth a read for those who drink things other than Babycham.

Ps, I have been known, upon occasion, to drink San Miguel, but I do prefer something a bit more robust normally.

You're correct in noting the historical evolution of ale houses and public houses. The distinctions between these establishments have evolved over time, reflecting changes in societal norms and regulations. Additionally, thank you for the book recommendation; "Beer and Britannia" sounds intriguing, especially for those interested in the cultural and historical aspects of beverages in Britain. Enjoy your preferred drink choices, including San Miguel!

All of these 'foreign' brews I think taste better in their home environment. I lived in Hong Kong for a long time and in the early days the most common beer was either San Miguel or Carlsberg because each had a brewery in the territory. Not much of a choice but both tolerable when the temperature for much of the year was over 30C with humidity to match. San Miguel sold an enormous amount of beer there.

Dod

[Urbandreamer]

All of these 'foreign' brews I think taste better in their home environment. I lived in Hong Kong for a long time and in the early days the most common beer was either San Miguel or Carlsberg because each had a brewery in the territory. Not much of a choice but both tolerable when the temperature for much of the year was over 30C with humidity to match. San Miguel sold an enormous amount of beer there.

Dod

Indeed so. Or rather, lighter cooler beers are preferable in warmer/hotter climates. Or arguably drunk with delicate foods. I confess that the only times that I have chosen San Miguel in this country is with a meal.

That said, I know that many craft breweries produce a light summer ale.

[stevensfo]

Guinness shandy??!!
Heresy. Stone him
You're probably the sort that puts ginger ale (or worse) in a single malt!

--kiloran

Some single malts deserve that!

True. There is a cheap Italian supermarket called 'D'Piu' that, a few years ago had a single malt whisky for about 8 euros.

I can't remember the name, but imagine a nice glass of Grant's adulterated with a bit of battery acid and cat's p*ss, and you get the picture!


Steve

[MuddyBoots]

I find it strange that pint for pint, coffee is more expensive than beer even though it has less tax. I can pay £3 for a basic americano of about 1/2 pint but wouldn't pay £6 for a pint of beer. The profit margin on coffee must be high!

[Leothebear]

You're correct in noting the historical evolution of ale houses and public houses. The distinctions between these establishments have evolved over time, reflecting changes in societal norms and regulations. Additionally, thank you for the book recommendation; "Beer and Britannia" sounds intriguing, especially for those interested in the cultural and historical aspects of beverages in Britain. Enjoy your preferred drink choices, including San Miguel!

All of these 'foreign' brews I think taste better in their home environment. I lived in Hong Kong for a long time and in the early days the most common beer was either San Miguel or Carlsberg because each had a brewery in the territory. Not much of a choice but both tolerable when the temperature for much of the year was over 30C with humidity to match. San Miguel sold an enormous amount of beer there.

Dod

Spot on. I love a good pint of hoppy bitter with the best of them, but sitting in a pretty town square in a hot climate, people watching (sometimes called "perving") give me a local cold lager.

[88V8]

You should try a pint of brown ale shandy, or Guinness shandy if no brown ale.

You're probably the sort that puts ginger ale (or worse) in a single malt!

Indeed. And ginger wine....

V8

[Imbiber]

The Cruzcampo sold on draught in the UK is a "version" of the Spanish beer. It is brewed in Manchester. Its taste has been made with "the UK audience in mind "

[Mike4]

I find it strange that pint for pint, coffee is more expensive than beer even though it has less tax. I can pay £3 for a basic americano of about 1/2 pint but wouldn't pay £6 for a pint of beer. The profit margin on coffee must be high!

I suspect the fixed costs associated with the business(es) existing at all in order for us to buy said coffee or beer dwarf the cost of the materials used to make the drink. So yes the gross margin on both coffee and beer needs to be massive to cover the cost of the premises, the staff, the furniture, Business Rates, etc etc.

[Hallucigenia]

As I understand it Ale houses were private homes where you could drop in and buy ale. Public houses started the same way.

They both started that way but by the 19th century they were legally distinct things - alehouse licences were relatively easy to come by but full pub licences were rarely issued which made them expensive to acquire, a number of the family brewers IPO'd at the end of the 19th century to finance the cost of buying pubs and give them acquisition currency because it had become so difficult to grow a pub estate organically.

This fictionalised account gives a good idea of the various forces affecting pubs over the decades:
https://boakandbailey.com/2017/04/pubs- ... 1837-2017/

What a great read, thanks Hal.

Boak and Bailey have written a number of books about pubs and beer, one of which confusingly is called Beer Britannia but they've gone down some rabbit holes like 20th Century Pub. Their blog is fun too.

I've often wondered if the seven supposed pubs in my tiny village were not full-fat pubs but something else and "Alehouse" or "Beerhouse" seems a lot more likely. I have also wondered about the status of all the basic-type micro pubs popping up in what used to be high street shops, which seem to sell only proper beer and wine, no spirits or any of that CO2-powered pub bar paraphernalia. Presumably they have a different legal status to a "Public House" which may not be demolished without Planning Permission; possibly they are the same thing as a Beer House in the eyes of the law and the local council planning dept.

"Legal status" has many angles - planning, licensing, Assets of Community Value, English Heritage listing etc. I'd guess that micropubs have the same A4 consent from a planning POV, but a planning committee would view an application for change of use very differently for a micropub that was a shop a decade ago, versus something that had been a pub for centuries.

There's no such thing as a beerhouse from a licensing POV, just some owners aren't interested in wine and spirits and want a cliquey place for their CAMRA mates to hang out. Personally I think micropubs benefit enormously from the different vibe that comes from offering half-decent wine and spirits.

[Hallucigenia]

I find it strange that pint for pint, coffee is more expensive than beer even though it has less tax. I can pay £3 for a basic americano of about 1/2 pint but wouldn't pay £6 for a pint of beer. The profit margin on coffee must be high!

I suspect the fixed costs associated with the business(es) existing at all in order for us to buy said coffee or beer dwarf the cost of the materials used to make the drink. So yes the gross margin on both coffee and beer needs to be massive to cover the cost of the premises, the staff, the furniture, Business Rates, etc etc.

It's no coincidence that Whitbread gave up brewing to focus on building Costa into the world's second-biggest coffee chain, they even had to outsource the production of their 275th anniversary beer (made with Whitbread Goldings hops and Costa coffee....) to Black Sheep.

[Imbiber]

Black Sheep, now owned by Breal Investment.

[Hallucigenia]

Black Sheep, now owned by Breal Investment.

Not sure what that's got to do with anything, given that it wasn't true in 2017 which was when Whitbread had their 275th birthday.

But if we're going OT as an aside, for those who missed it, Breal have just bought Purity out of administration.

[Imbiber]

Yes. I saw that, the Mad Goose is very nice.

[Clitheroekid]

I suspect many people don't realise quite how much minimum wage has gone up beyond inflation (up over 60% in real terms) and in turn that's a major reason for higher beer prices, as the beer can cost as much as the labour to serve it once you add in now-compulsory extras like pension costs).

I hadn't realised that, and I would have to ask whether it's actually `a good thing'. In general terms I'm a free marketeer, and I suspect that one effect of such a high minimum wage is to deprive a lot of young people, who are living at home and don't actually need a high wage, of the opportunity to work.

Anyway, that's no doubt a subject for a different thread. Getting back to the subject, in my recent travels around the country I've found that the price of beer now seems to be set far more by the type of pub than its location within England. Certainly, the north / south divide is far less consistent than it was, and beer in my local pubs is at least the same price as that in the several Gloucestershire and Berkshire pubs I visited over Christmas / New Year. And even in an `ordinary' pub in London (i.e. not one aimed specifically at tourists or the wealthy) the prices seem about the same.

Although I'm very lucky that my local village (pop 1,000) still has three thriving pubs it's depressing to see how many pubs that I used to visit have now gone, and with them the social life that they engendered. But pubs are rather like libraries - everyone likes them, and thinks they add to the common good, but those same people have largely stopped using them, and I'm as guilty of this as anyone (in respect of both libraries and pubs).

I used to visit a pub several times a week, but now it's usually only once or twice a week, and I rarely now drink more than two pints, compared to the three or four (or more!) that I used to. It's also noticeable that my fellow drinkers are generally middle aged or older, whereas 20 or 30 years ago most of the drinkers would have been young.

I often think that Covid has had a far more drastic effect on everyday life than has been generally recognised, in that the prolonged periods of lockdown seem to have made people far more insular and introverted. I suspect that these characteristics were inherent in a lot of English people anyway, and that having been forced to isolate for long periods of time they actually found that they quite enjoyed it, and have never returned to their previous, more gregarious way of life.

The combination of all these factors has created a perfect storm for the pub industry, and I really can't see the present trend of closures ceasing any time soon.

[didds]

I often think that Covid has had a far more drastic effect on everyday life than has been generally recognised, in that the prolonged periods of lockdown seem to have made people far more insular and introverted. I suspect that these characteristics were inherent in a lot of English people anyway, and that having been forced to isolate for long periods of time they actually found that they quite enjoyed it, and have never returned to their previous, more gregarious way of life.

Yup. Totally concur. I frequent pubs a lot - maybe 4-5 times a week, though usually just a couple of pints a visit tops, and they tend to be later evening visits eg circa 2200.

Before Covid that 10pm slot would usually be quite busy. Now its usually quiet, though last night was quite full for a Thursday. My "go to" local says that earlier evenings are busier than pre covid but indeed overall people just don't go out as much - to pubs anyway (but see below). A very few pubs seem to have bucked the trend - but they are ones that have a bit of a local/relative USP, and as a couple of previous GBG pubs have closed in the last 18 months, they've picked up the "surplus" so to speak. [ next years guide for our town will be interesting - we had 18 months ago 5 top pubs vying for 4 slots - now 2 of those 5 are closed... ].

NYE saw the closure of another town pub here - though this was its 3rd closure in 18 months, with long periods empty between. I cant see it surviving as a pub going forward - its too large for starters, its brewery owners have arguably shot it in the foot with a couple of trade decisions in that period of time, as well as providing two other venues with pretty much the same raision d'etre/provision as two other same brewery tied pubs in a quarter of a mile radius. Our village lost its only pub (though it has an excellent restaurant with a public bar ) last year - that has struggled all the time I've lived here (30 years) and even pre covid was on its knees. I'm sure most of us here have similar stories ... apologies for wittering on. I like pubs, a bit passionate about them and their social status and fit.

[bungeejumper]

I often think that Covid has had a far more drastic effect on everyday life than has been generally recognised, in that the prolonged periods of lockdown seem to have made people far more insular and introverted. I suspect that these characteristics were inherent in a lot of English people anyway, and that having been forced to isolate for long periods of time they actually found that they quite enjoyed it, and have never returned to their previous, more gregarious way of life.

Would be foolish not to mention that younger consumers are drinking less alcohol, of course. Although that shouldn't stop them from going to the pub, in theory at least, as long as the pubs can change enough to accomodate them?

Agree about Covid, but I'm more inclined to put it down to Netflix, hen parties on Zoom, 65 inch TV screens, and an unending barrage of cheap beer deals from the supermarkets. I imagine there'll also have been some changes in the sports offerings on pub TVs versus the channels available in the average home - but hey, I'm out of my depth there because I don't properly understand the lure of it anyway.

Also agree that the behavioural change is probably going to be permanent now, unless rising temperatures start to give us southern-European pavement cafes. Where people are quite content to sit and sip soft drinks, of course....

BJ