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price fixing

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Tedx
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price fixing

#658275

Postby Tedx » April 7th, 2024, 8:48 am

Moderator Message:
I have moved this topic from DAK where it had become off-topic. Discussion is allowed in the Snug but not on DAK! (chas49)


If you are partial to a manicure, it could be about to cost you more.

Why? More than 5,000 nail technicians across the UK are coming together to collectively raise their prices from Monday in what is being labelled "National Nail Price Increase Day”.


Isn't that illegal? Surely the market sets the price for having your nails done ....?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cld404v6lkeo

chas49
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Re: price fixing

#658288

Postby chas49 » April 7th, 2024, 11:06 am

On the face of it, it looks like anti-competitive activitity.

https://www.gov.uk/cartels-price-fixing ... e-activity says:

Price fixing
You must not discuss the prices you’re going to charge your customers with your competitors.

You’ll be breaking the law if you agree with another business:

to charge the same prices to your customers
to offer discounts or increase your prices at the same time
to charge the same fees to intermediaries, for example retailers selling your products


and

If you’re involved in anti-competitive activity
Your business can be fined up to 10% of its worldwide turnover and sued for damages.

You can be fined or sent to prison for up to 5 years if you’re found guilty of being involved in cartel activity.

Company directors can be disqualified from being a director for up to 15 years.


Though I suspect indivudual technicians would be able to say "I didn't discuss it with anyone, I just read about the idea in [publication] and decided to join in"

Gerry557
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Re: price fixing

#658293

Postby Gerry557 » April 7th, 2024, 11:29 am

Is that called price rigging?

If you did that selling TVs it would get you in some hock.

I'm looking forward to the compensation claims from all those with nice nails come Monday. The good news is that they will be earning minimum wages to pay it.

bungeejumper
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Re: price fixing

#658296

Postby bungeejumper » April 7th, 2024, 11:43 am

Gerry557 wrote:I'm looking forward to the compensation claims from all those with nice nails come Monday. The good news is that they will be earning minimum wages to pay it.

Which is why I'm also surprised that they've gone public with this apparently national plan. Show me a nail parlour, and I'll show you a place where you might well find people-trafficking. Join up the dots yourself. :|

BJ

88V8
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Re: price fixing

#658331

Postby 88V8 » April 7th, 2024, 3:24 pm

bungeejumper wrote:...Join up the dots yourself. ....

Yes, people - or at any rate, women - really do pay to have their nails look like this.

V8

chas49
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Re: price fixing

#658333

Postby chas49 » April 7th, 2024, 3:49 pm

Moderator Message:
This the DAK board. The rules are at the top of the page. Please stick to them. (chas49)

Arborbridge
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Re: price fixing

#658335

Postby Arborbridge » April 7th, 2024, 3:58 pm

This is an interesting area for debate. It doesn't look so much like price fixing but a general realisation that they are under-selling themselves and competition has driven wages down to a point where they don't have a viable business. Ther presumably don't have a union to defend themselves, so this seems the next best thing.

This is more like an idea whose time has come - and that definitely happens in other areas of society, so I say good luck to them. It is a notorious industry in which desperate people are taken advantage of, and one of the downsides of capitalism is that industries like this get away with a race to the bottom in which everyone loses: then everyone either goes to the wall or it ends up in a monopoly.


Arb.

bungeejumper
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Re: price fixing

#658345

Postby bungeejumper » April 7th, 2024, 5:25 pm

Arborbridge wrote:This is an interesting area for debate. It doesn't look so much like price fixing but a general realisation that they are under-selling themselves and competition has driven wages down to a point where they don't have a viable business. Ther presumably don't have a union to defend themselves, so this seems the next best thing.

Thanks for putting the opposite viewpoint, Arb, but I think you might have stumbled upon the two most important aspects of why some people get paid so little.

Firstly, because it's certainly tough that "competition has driven wages down to a point where they don't have a viable business". But excessive competition (or shall we just call it over-supply? ;)) is a natural market force in its own right. Nail painting is a low-skilled job with extremely low financial barriers to entry. It can be done without premises, and if lots of women freely choose to enter it because it's easy and flexible work, then the reason for the cheap fees becomes both obvious and unstoppable.

There have been plenty of other professions that have been swamped out of existence by amateurs and lightweights. Twenty-five years ago, press photographers and journalists on local newspapers used to make a decent living, but they earn peanuts now that any amateur with a smartphone can sell cheap or even free stuff to their editors. And I don't seem to hear many people cheering for the journos' corner. :(

Secondly, because there's a disconnect between what the punters pay and what the staff actually receive, and we need to be careful not to get the two confused. If the law decides to stamp on employers who pay £5 an hour, then we might see less distortion in the marketplace. (Although I'll bet that most nail artists are self-employed women on zero hours, not employees. The difference matters!)

Journalists' unions have no power to set freelance rates, but they do set target rates which reflect the 'going rates' in different sectors of the industry. Often the hacks themselves will fail to achieve those target rates and will have to settle for less. And dammit, that's how capitalism works. It's a price-discovery mechanism!

BJ

Mike4
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Re: price fixing

#658355

Postby Mike4 » April 7th, 2024, 7:00 pm

Gerry557 wrote:Is that called price rigging?



No. Price rigging is collectively deciding what every retailer will sell each product or service for, and all will charge the same price list.

This announcement seems to be a loose intention for each business to review the prices they charge, broadly at the same time. I've seen no claims that they are all going to charge the same price list.

UncleEbenezer
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Re: price fixing

#658372

Postby UncleEbenezer » April 7th, 2024, 8:19 pm

Arborbridge wrote:This is an interesting area for debate. It doesn't look so much like price fixing but a general realisation that they are under-selling themselves and competition has driven wages down to a point where they don't have a viable business. Ther presumably don't have a union to defend themselves, so this seems the next best thing.

Your description sounds a lot like price-fixing to me. But price-fixing is sometimes accepted by society: for example, the minimum wage, or in the context of collective bargaining. There's a lot of politics in the decision of when to allow it.

Having said that, yesterday's story took me by surprise too. It did sound like something the wrong side of the line. But maybe it's seen in a similar light to sellers of the Big Issue who might neglect to declare their earnings.

This is more like an idea whose time has come - and that definitely happens in other areas of society, so I say good luck to them. It is a notorious industry in which desperate people are taken advantage of, and one of the downsides of capitalism is that industries like this get away with a race to the bottom in which everyone loses: then everyone either goes to the wall or it ends up in a monopoly.
Arb.


Indeed, a race to the bottom - which is an opposite to price-fixing - has problems too, and can come back to bite the buyer (like, public projects left in limbo when Carillion went bust). On balance, price-fixing may be a lesser of evils.

My barber's prices have gone up hugely in the last couple of years :(

bungeejumper
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Re: price fixing

#658422

Postby bungeejumper » April 8th, 2024, 9:11 am

UncleEbenezer wrote:My barber's prices have gone up hugely in the last couple of years :(

So did mine - ironically, since the amount that needed to be trimmed off was diminishing. The cost per hair was going through the roof by the time of the covid lockdown, and I swapped the pop music and the casual ageism in our local barbers' shop for the tonsorial attentions of my wife, who charges a cup of tea and a kiss. :)

The current ubiquity of high street Turkish barbers is a whole nother subject, deserving of a dfferent thread, I suspect. Cash in hand payment, fluid staffing, and apparently more establishments than you'd expect a small town to support. Another of life's mysteries, then. :D

BJ

didds
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Re: price fixing

#658443

Postby didds » April 8th, 2024, 10:59 am

bungeejumper wrote:...I swapped the pop music and the casual ageism in our local barbers' shop for the tonsorial attentions of my wife, who charges a cup of tea and a kiss. :)


she doesn't charge me the tea ...

stevensfo
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Re: price fixing

#658476

Postby stevensfo » April 8th, 2024, 2:35 pm

didds wrote:
bungeejumper wrote:...I swapped the pop music and the casual ageism in our local barbers' shop for the tonsorial attentions of my wife, who charges a cup of tea and a kiss. :)


she doesn't charge me the tea ...


My mum was a hairdresser and ran her own shop behind our flat, so I was used to being dragged there and used as a guinea pig from an early age. At least I was given a comic...The Sparky (anyone remember this?) or sixpence to spend on sweets. Then back to the babysitter who spoilt me to death. 8-)

Many years later, as a student from my village to London. "Who cuts your hair?"

"Me mum!"

Now doing it myself. :lol:


Steve

chas49
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Re: price fixing

#658477

Postby chas49 » April 8th, 2024, 2:38 pm

Moderator Message:
I have moved this topic from DAK where it had become off-topic. Discussion is allowed in the Snug but not on DAK! (chas49)


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