Video doorbells

[didds]

Admin - if there is a better forum for this feel free to move - I just thought this was most likely to gain "passing footfall" and not be constained by DAK eg extended debate may emnsue that is useful.

So - it has been suggested we get a video doorbell. I know virtually nothing about video doorbells aside form

* they show video "CCTV" of whoever is at the door
* they interact with smartphone apps
* they permit you to have a conversation with the visitor
* they can be used to screen visitors
* they can record all such interactions
* they are motion sensored (?)

I am aware some are subscription based, but some are not.

We are in the UK. We have wifi that will be available at the front door with a strong signal (I presume they work via wifi anyway?)

has anybody here one/have knowledge to help plkug and gaps? Any suggestions - recommendations and "must avoids"

I have googled but TBH as I dont really know what I am trying to google Ive no idea of the flapjack 2000 with inbuilt multi-wombat is what we need...

didds

[UncleEbenezer]

What does it gain you?

I have a spyhole in my front door. In flats, intercom integrated with the doorbell has been common since sometime last century.

Potential gains might be for security, and when you're out. In the latter case, how many people might benefit yet won't have your phone number to hand?

As for what to avoid, knowing you're in tech I shouldn't have to tell you. But this is the snug, so ... Beware of any service that relies on something in the "cloud". What do you do if the server it accesses goes down - perhaps permanently if the company goes bust or just pulls the plug?

[BullDog]

Interesting questions. I have considered a door bell cam. I would be interested in a discussion here. My primary concerns are -

1. I won't pay a monthly subscription for video uploading.

2. Potential hacking into my home network from poor door bell cam security.

3. Data fed back to Chinese servers from the device.

Thanks in advance for the comments.

[UncleEbenezer]

Interesting questions. I have considered a door bell cam. I would be interested in a discussion here. My primary concerns are -

1. I won't pay a monthly subscription for video uploading.

Neither would I. But then, I'm not contemplating anything more than the oldfashioned doorbell I already have.

2. Potential hacking into my home network from poor door bell cam security.

What access does it have to your home network? The risk is there, but is minimal if it doesn't ask for network privileges when you install it.

3. Data fed back to Chinese servers from the device.

Why Chinese? Are you in China? Or are you a spy? Being neither of those, China would not be on my list of concerns. Short of being a spy, if I had things to hide I could be concerned about the UK government, or its friends and allies, but not China.

[Lanark]

An issue to be aware of with these things, if the system saves video files, then the police can request a copy of them using a search warrant as part of any investigation. Also if it records anything outside your property then you may have to deal with data protection requests from the public.

https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/is ... MQD1C0P0zi

[didds]

As for what to avoid, knowing you're in tech I shouldn't have to tell you. But this is the snug, so ... Beware of any service that relies on something in the "cloud". What do you do if the server it accesses goes down - perhaps permanently if the company goes bust or just pulls the plug?

yup.

entirely. Id avoid the cl;loud for those reasopns amongst others.

a large SD card (or three) will do.

[didds]

An issue to be aware of with these things, if the system saves video files, then the police can request a copy of them using a search warrant as part of any investigation. Also if it records anything outside your property then you may have to deal with data protection requests from the public.

https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/is ... MQD1C0P0zi

as per my OP I know hardly anbything so Im not disputing your post. However I dont know where it fits given my FB feed in local groups seems full of "has anyone any ring footage form friday 0530 of two blokes in a red van in Arcacia Avenue " - and even similar please from the police.

I cant beleive so many people can presumably have this sort of "public view" being stored and there not be some sort of mass protest at their use

[Adamski]

Hi, we've got a ring doorbell. It's £3.49 per month. It works on WiFi. So connects to the hub. You've also got the initial cost and electrician to fix it.

Yes works on motion, so get a buzz on your phone whenever motion or the doorbell rang.

Also see when get a delivery can hear and speak to the delivery driver to leave package by the door.

Very useful, wouldn't go back to not having one.

[swill453]

An issue to be aware of with these things, if the system saves video files, then the police can request a copy of them using a search warrant as part of any investigation. Also if it records anything outside your property then you may have to deal with data protection requests from the public.

https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/is ... MQD1C0P0zi

as per my OP I know hardly anbything so Im not disputing your post. However I dont know where it fits given my FB feed in local groups seems full of "has anyone any ring footage form friday 0530 of two blokes in a red van in Arcacia Avenue " - and even similar please from the police.

I cant beleive so many people can presumably have this sort of "public view" being stored and there not be some sort of mass protest at their use

As Lanark said, the most that could happen as far as data protection is concerned is that someone you filmed outside your property could request to see your footage.

Doesn't sound like too much of a deal.

Scott.

[ReformedCharacter]

An issue to be aware of with these things, if the system saves video files, then the police can request a copy of them using a search warrant as part of any investigation. Also if it records anything outside your property then you may have to deal with data protection requests from the public.

https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/is ... MQD1C0P0zi

as per my OP I know hardly anbything so Im not disputing your post. However I dont know where it fits given my FB feed in local groups seems full of "has anyone any ring footage form friday 0530 of two blokes in a red van in Arcacia Avenue " - and even similar please from the police.

I cant beleive so many people can presumably have this sort of "public view" being stored and there not be some sort of mass protest at their use

I read some time ago that the fuzz were making use of Ring doorbells, but this seems to be restricted now:

Amazon’s Ring is stopping a programme that allowed police to easily get doorbell camera footage from its customers.
The company will still let police access some footage, and might do so without the owners consent.

But the company said that it will be ending support for a particular tool that let police departments and others get video that was taken using Ring doorbell cameras.

The smart doorbell cameras are intended as a way for people to see who is at their house without having to open the door, and communicate with them far from afar. But they have proven a useful tool for surveillance, given their access to intimate parts of people’s houses.

In a blog post on Wednesday, Ring said it will sunset the “Request for Assistance” tool, which allows police departments and other public safety agencies to request and receive video captured by the doorbell cameras through Ring’s Neighbors app.

https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/amazon-ring-doorbell-camera-footage-assistance-b2484604.html

I suspect that in most cases the data protection aspect is moot, there must be hundreds of thousands of people who use similar devices that overlook public areas. That includes me, I have a camera that overlooks the front of my house and road. I use it with Motioneye and a Raspberry Pi which works well. I have a separate small monitor in my office which gives me a 'virtual window' via VLC.

RC

[chas49]

The data protection issues are (for most normal cases) trivial. For domestic use, that gives you an exemption from the need to register with the ICO, or to comply with GDPR requirements. If you capture people (or record audio) outside the boundaries of your property, you may technically fall into the UK GDPR requirements. However the ICO say that it is unlikely that it would be in the public interest to take action.

(This is all paraphrased. Check the ICO guidance if you are worried.)

I have a small sign on my front door saying that a "recording device is in operation". (In fact it's only triggered if the system is armed and detects motion). My notice also gives an email address for the 'data controller'. No-one has ever used it.


(This is my own image)

[bungeejumper]

as per my OP I know hardly anbything so Im not disputing your post. However I dont know where it fits given my FB feed in local groups seems full of "has anyone any ring footage form friday 0530 of two blokes in a red van in Arcacia Avenue " - and even similar please from the police.

Well, I got nothing but thanks from my neighbours when the footage from the security camera on our drive helped to send a couple of jewellery thieves to prison. Our camera showed the burglars riding their motorbike past our house, and away from the dark alley where they'd just dumped the incriminating jewellery box into somebody's dustbin. Indeed, if I'd bought the super-high-definition camera I daresay it would have shown their pockets bulging with gold chains and a sprinkling of Rolexes.

A couple of special issues seem relevant. First, we live on an unlit, unadopted road at the edge of the village, and we all look out for one another's security, because that's just what rural communities do. Second, our video wasn't being permanently streamed to the wider world via the cloud. Instead, the video was being wired straight down to our standalone DVR, which would automatically overwrite it after a couple of days.

And thirdly, we know each other well and none of us is into stalking. Fully accept that not all neighbourhoods are like ours.

BJ

[didds]

As Lanark said, the most that could happen as far as data protection is concerned is that someone you filmed outside your property could request to see your footage.

Doesn't sound like too much of a deal.

Scott.

true.

But does that then mean you have to trawl through dozens if not hundreds of hours to find them for the 10 seconds they walked past ?

How does that "work" then?

Cos if not anybody with a ring doorbell on a busy street _could_ end up spending their entire life dealing with such requests?

And is it is we do have somebody local that WOULD request such a thing regularly... and lets just say that we "know" they would . They have .... form...

[didds]

The data protection issues are (for most normal cases) trivial. For domestic use, that gives you an exemption from the need to register with the ICO, or to comply with GDPR requirements. If you capture people (or record audio) outside the boundaries of your property, you may technically fall into the UK GDPR requirements. However the ICO say that it is unlikely that it would be in the public interest to take action.

Ill check that stuff - thanks... but then as you are here already, does that mean if our local ... person of pain .... asks for such video footage we can just say "nah. naff off. ain't happenning" and there is FA they can then do?

Cos when when of our neighbours had such a thing for their business premises all hell broke loose and they had to remove it.

[didds]

Fully accept that not all neighbourhoods are like ours.

BJ

and that's our issue ...

[chas49]

The data protection issues are (for most normal cases) trivial. For domestic use, that gives you an exemption from the need to register with the ICO, or to comply with GDPR requirements. If you capture people (or record audio) outside the boundaries of your property, you may technically fall into the UK GDPR requirements. However the ICO say that it is unlikely that it would be in the public interest to take action.

Ill check that stuff - thanks... but then as you are here already, does that mean if our local ... person of pain .... asks for such video footage we can just say "nah. naff off. ain't happenning" and there is FA they can then do?

Cos when when of our neighbours had such a thing for their business premises all hell broke loose and they had to remove it.

Pretty much. See https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/domes ... v-systems/

It is difficult to enforce these rules, as it is not easy to find out if the person acts on a request to delete footage. We wouldn’t find it a fair or balanced action to go into a person’s home to find out if they were complying with the law or take other enforcement action.

[Gerry557]

I have a Tapo doorbell. It comes with a chime / storage box. I went for this because I wanted local storage and no monthly costs.

it works with an app on the phone. there are options for online storage too if you think you need them. The camera also has colour night vision. The battery has lasted months but you can have a powered option. No issues with data protection. The majority of people don't care and the ones that get uppity probably dont know I have one. There is an option to cover parts of the screen for privacy say for instance your camera points at a neighbours window. Generally if the police asked, I wouldn't have an issue about giving them copies. Might be different if I sold drugs

You can set various options to trigger the camera in case you want it to set off when someone is close or further down the drive/path.

I like to see who is at the door even when Im not there. it good also when you get a package when you are away as you can talk to the delivery person. Now I have one I dont think I would be without. Being "watched" might also prevent some nar do wellers behaving badly.

The Tapo was approx £100 and was easy to set up


The negatives can be that the doorbell gets pinched (hence the local storage) mine has a tamper alarm if that helps. Other models allowed the pincher to reset the doorbell and delete your recordings.

[stewamax]

Current (2021) relevant case law is Fairhurst vs Woodard where the claimant sought injunctive relief and damages for harassment for the neighbouring defendant's use of a Ring doorbell and various cameras.
See:
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/upl ... ment-1.pdf

[chas49]

Current (2021) relevant case law is Fairhurst vs Woodard where the claimant sought injunctive relief and damages for harassment for the neighbouring defendant's use of a Ring doorbell and various cameras.
See:
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/upl ... ment-1.pdf

An interesting case. A very unusual set of facts I think. And County Court judgments do not create precedent so this doesn't count as a definitive piece of case law.

[Nimrod103]

A vulnerable relative of mine has an insane ex husband who turns up to cause trouble, and an unpleasant neighbour who is trying to harass her.
Having the recording facility to film who is lurking around, and what is said in any conversation, has been very valuable to even the score, as far as the police are concerned.